American E-Liquid Manufacturers' Standards Association launches

[Ceegary]

Have these 10 Mfrs paid their $500 joining fee and $5100 or are they waiting to see how many other Mfrs are prepared to join before they part with their cash? Just curious.

I thought I saw something in the first podcast when Adam (I think it was him) was asked how much the fees were. He didn't know and Lou had to jump in with them. If your company had considered that expense and made it, let alone sit on the board, you'd think you'd know right. Unless you're paying a discount and forgot what full price was?

 

[SissySpike]

After researching this I am in 100% support of them. We do not need people who sell stuff for others to inhale making it any old witch way. I dont think most would purposely put a harmful product out there but with standard the risk becomes far less.
Even down to where the nic is bought from I herd a story of someone buying nic concentrat that ended up beeing 200+mg that's crazy! It was advertised at 100 and labeled so. With standards the manufacturer would have testing equip to know what in in their product.
With standards we have accurate measurements I hate to tell you but a syringe is only accurate one time. There is just a big difference in me making something for my self and making something to sell to others.
Ill throw out a not so farfetched fictional story. Bill has just figured out a very good recipe all of his friends love his juice. The people at the local vape lounge are willing to pay good money for it. He opens a web sight and starts doing very well His pet iguana slobbers on the table as he shoos it away to bottle up his most recent order. The dropper caps come in contact with the saminilla infected slobber now you are in the hospital. You have missed a weeks work have 10,000 dollars worth of hospital bills Bill can not pay the bills for you as he quit his day job to become a full time juice vendor. You are screwed
I don't know if this exact thing can happen but you get the idea. This sort of thing can and will happen. Bill would not o hurt you on purpose but it can happen so easily when people do not know exactly what they are doing. Standards can drastically reduce these kinds of risks.
These guys are not trying to corner the market or make cartridges the norm but Marlboro is we are up against some very tough competition. People who like to control everything just because they do not care about facts or your opinion they will push legislation just because they can, Next tobacco will fight for their survival we all know that.
AEMSA has answered every last one of my emails in a timely manner. These regulations will affect you weather you thinks it good or bad is up to you but you have no reason to base your opinion on a forum thread when you can go straight to the source.
These threads are full of misinformation and peoples opinions, including mine!
Dont be a sheep and follow, go to the source and form your own opinion.

 

[zoiDman]

Before I can Support the Majority of AEMSA mission, I will have to see some Specifics on how Member Certification will be Maintained.

That and what Exactly AEMSA will Lobby the Government to do on Behalf of AEMSA Members using their 501(c)(6) status.

 

[oldsoldier]

Before I can Support AEMSA 100%, I will have to see some Specifics on how Member Certification will be Maintained.

That and what Exactly AEMSA will Lobby the Government to do on Behalf of AEMSA Members using their 501(c)(6) status.

I would suspect then that you would not be able to give them 100% report for some time, especially on the Government lobbying issue. If I am not mistaken it will take about a year for approval for lobbying.

Lobbying is a gray area, I find it extremely difficult to support many things 100%, even my beloved NRA does some things I am only 95% in agreeance with

 

[meli.]

Buzzlove, since ECF had the Courtesy to afford AEMSA a platform to Promote and Launch their Venture, I would imagine that AEMSA could afford the courtesy to the ECF community by answering questions in the Thread.

They would not have received half of the publicity they have done, had it not been for ECF populating the forums with this thread. The least AEMSA can do is answer the questions that have been put to them.

Unless this was a thin veiled attempt as a pre-launch, self promotion tactic just before Vapercon and Using ECF as the launching platform with some added Free Publicity, and Stuff the concerns of the ECF Community as AEMSA has now achieved its purpose.

So lets all keep quiet and go home and Stop asking questions just in case we upset or rock the applecart.
Or am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[zoiDman]

I would suspect then that you would not be able to give them 100% report for some time, especially on the Government lobbying issue. If I am not mistaken it will take about a year for approval for lobbying.

Lobbying is a gray area, I find it extremely difficult to support many things 100%, even my beloved NRA does some things I am only 95% in agreeance with

You are correct OS.

100% Support was perhaps a Pour Choice of words. There are Very Few things that are 100% aligned with my Beliefs, Concerns and or Views.

 

[Quick1]

Buzzlove, since ECF had the Courtesy to afford AEMSA a platform to Promote and Launch their Venture, I would imagine that AEMSA could afford the courtesy to the ECF community by answering questions in the Thread.

I would seriously question AEMSA's judgement as an organization if they simply engaged on a wide open internet thread. Maybe they could do something like the presidential debates. Maybe even live.

ECF members submit questions to ECF staff/moderators.
ECF staff/moderators filter questions (appropriateness, duplicates, OT, etc) and submit selected to AEMSA representative(s)
AEMSA representative(s) select questions to answer.

That's about the only way these things work without turning into a complete clusterf.

The least AEMSA can do is answer the questions that have been put to them.

I thought he said they are doing that?

AEMSA has answered every last one of my emails in a timely manner. These regulations will affect you weather you thinks it good or bad is up to you but you have no reason to base your opinion on a forum thread when you can go straight to the source.
These threads are full of misinformation and peoples opinions, including mine!
Dont be a sheep and follow, go to the source and form your own opinion.

 

[zoiDman]

I would seriously question AEMSA's judgement as an organization if they simply engaged on a wide open internet thread. Maybe they could do something like the presidential debates. Maybe even live.

ECF members submit questions to ECF staff/moderators.
ECF staff/moderators filter questions (appropriateness, duplicates, OT, etc) and submit selected to AEMSA representative(s)
AEMSA representative(s) select questions to answer.

...

I would think the Last Thing that the ECF would want to do is Become a Moderator of Questions between AEMSA and ECF Members.

One of the things I Respect most about the ECF is that they Strive to Stay out of Controversy instead of Trying to Sway Members towards a Side or Position. They merely provide a place for e-Cigarette related Topics to be Discussed.

This Thread is a Great Example of Providing just such a Platform for Discussion.

 

[oldsoldier]

Thanks Zoid, ECFs policy on trade organizations is pretty clear. We have advocated for the formation of trade organizations for a very long time. We are not trying to become any type of regulatory body for anything other than ECF.

Sure we have made safety suggestions in the past and we have set and enforced standards on who we will allow to become ECF Registered Suppliers as our prerogative. First and foremost, ECF was founded as a community resource for vapers. Our mission grew under the vision of smokeyjoe to be a family friendly, work safe resource that promotes vaping and helps our members understand the very real threats to vaping from government and industry sources. What people do not realize is that the rapid growth of the e-cigarette industry provides just as much potential for destroying the industry as any government.

We do not wish to become a filter for questions submitted to AEMSA. This would be a conflict of interest and take up way too much of our time. We do hope that it grows and becomes a viable organization for furthering the "good" of vaping. Only time will tell.

 

[6pointprime]

I would imagine that AEMSA could afford the courtesy to the ECF community by answering questions in the Thread.

AEMSA has repeatedly said that they will answer all questions that are emailed to them. I suspect they favor this form of communication because it is easier to manage than a fast moving thread like this one, and there would be less chance of a question going unanswered.

So...if you have a question for them, you know how to ask it. Email them.

There is no problem here except for...as you put it...what you would imagine.

 

[6pointprime]

I thought I saw something in the first podcast when Adam (I think it was him) was asked how much the fees were. He didn't know and Lou had to jump in with them. If your company had considered that expense and made it, let alone sit on the board, you'd think you'd know right. Unless you're paying a discount and forgot what full price was?

This is a baseless accusation. You just suggested that a company is getting preferential treatment and special pricing, and you have absolutely no basis in fact for throwing that out there.

You, sir or ma'am, owe somebody a public apology.

 

[SissySpike]

Buzzlove, since ECF had the Courtesy to afford AEMSA a platform to Promote and Launch their Venture, I would imagine that AEMSA could afford the courtesy to the ECF community by answering questions in the Thread.

They would not have received half of the publicity they have done, had it not been for ECF populating the forums with this thread. The least AEMSA can do is answer the questions that have been put to them.

Unless this was a thin veiled attempt as a pre-launch, self promotion tactic just before Vapercon and Using ECF as the launching platform with some added Free Publicity, and Stuff the concerns of the ECF Community as AEMSA has now achieved its purpose.

So lets all keep quiet and go home and Stop asking questions just in case we upset or rock the applecart.
Or am I misunderstanding your point?

You misunderstood I am merely pointing out in all forum threads there is opinion and miss information not intentional misinformation but still there. Stated as fact, and Im sure the person thinks its fact. ( this is a generalization Im not calling any specific post)
So while this is great and needed and 100% useful before you ( all of us) make up your mind about anything don't just take some things you've read in a thread as fact go to the sources and get the info from the horses mouth so to speak.

 

[6pointprime]

You misunderstood I am merely pointing out in all forum threads there is opinion and miss information not intentional misinformation but still there. Stated as fact, and Im sure the person thinks its fact.
So while this is great and needed and 100% useful before you ( all of us) make up your mind about anything don't just take some things you've read in a thread as fact go to the sources and get the info from the horses mouth so to speak.

Exactly! That's why it's so dangerous for people like Ceegary to be flinging you-know-what at the wall. Unfortunately some people will believe it, even when there are absolutely no facts to support the baseless accusations that people like Ceegary make. People's reputations get damaged in the process because someone opted out of actually thinking.

 

[oldsoldier]

lets not name names here and turn this into a flamefest. I agree that people are acting without being informed and posting things as "fact" without looking further into the actual situation. Sometimes this is simply because they place too much credence in "so-and-so said that someone said" or it is a misinterpretation of what they read. Other times it is because of an agenda. But in the end it is what it is: the internet.

My advice? Read for yourself and make decisions based on what you read. There is nothing that can replace excercising your own due diligence.

 

[6pointprime]

lets not name names here and turn this into a flamefest. I agree that people are acting without being informed and posting things as "fact" without looking further into the actual situation. Sometimes this is simply because they place too much credence in "so-and-so said that someone said" or it is a misinterpretation of what they read. Other times it is because of an agenda. But in the end it is what it is: the internet.

my advice, read for yourself and make decisions based on what you read. There is nothing that can replace excercising your own due diligence.

When I see someone spewing rhetoric with no basis in fact that can damage someone's reputation, I'm going to say something. Suit yourself.

 

[zoiDman]

AEMSA has repeatedly said that they will answer all questions that are emailed to them. I suspect they favor this form of communication because it is easier to manage than a fast moving thread like this one, and there would be less chance of a question going unanswered.

So...if you have a question for them, you know how to ask it. Email them.

There is no problem here except for...as you put it...what you would imagine.

Not to Defend or Condon anyone…

But I think part of what is going on here is that People are not used Asking Questions or Raising Issues on the ECF and not having them Answered by the Individual who they are addressed to.

I think that you are correct. Perhaps the best way for us to get our Questions answered would be to contact AEMSA Directly.

 

[SissySpike]

What I like about this and several other like threads is give me a place to start. I read them and start looking for what everyone is clamoring about. I call the vendors and talk to them. I search the web I send emails ect.... This is a place among many to get some great info and ideas but still its just a conversation between like minded people as in any conversation all info is not necessarily correct right or biased on fact. Thats just human nature.

 

[SissySpike]

Heres a great example
Miss information: Aliens from outer space do not exist.
Fact: There is no conclusive evidence known to the general population that there other life forms other than us out there.
Conclusion: No one can say there are no Aliens out there until we've been to everyplace that's out there, any statement contrary to this one way or the other is biased solely on opinion. Not facts

 

[oldsoldier]

When I see someone spewing rhetoric with no basis in fact that can damage someone's reputation, I'm going to say something. Suit yourself.

When you start naming names it becomes a flamefest with possible libel implications. Just be aware that if this continues and develops into something that requires moderator action suiting yourself can end you in the sin bin

ETA: As the folks that haunt the outside are told frequently, "Attack the post, not the poster"

 

[6pointprime]

When you start naming names it becomes a flamefest with possible libel implications. Just be aware that if this continues and develops into something that requires moderator action suiting yourself can end you in the sin bin

ETA: As the folks that haunt the outside are told frequently, "Attack the post, not the poster"

Whatever man, do whatever you have to do.