Too early to report anything super useful from me. I have a bunch of FA steeping so it will be a while before I can truly add insight. However, what I do find interesting is how long my cartos have been lasting without any flavoring. If I vape a pure Nic/VG/PG blend (no flavoring) the cartos last what seems to be, forever. I'd be curious to know what it is exactly that shortens their life once the flavorings and possibly sweeteners goes in.
An observation about carto longevity
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Most probably some kind of caramelization of some of the products used on the coils.
I agree. I'd like to know exactly what is being caramelized.
Question for Mick: Do you blow out your cartos out? If so, what color is the liquid that gets blown out when you're vaping unflavored? Is it darker than what went in? Have you vaped just PG/nic or just VG/nic? If so, can you compare the two as to the color of what gets blown out? I'm very curious, because even using my super clear (but flavored) juice what I blow out of a carto after days of use is quite dark.
ETA: I'm adding a bit of tobacco absolute in my blends, a natural product, so I expect a lot of that residue may be just that -- the TA.
Question for Mick: Do you blow out your cartos out? If so, what color is the liquid that gets blown out when you're vaping unflavored? Is it darker than what went in? Have you vaped just PG/nic or just VG/nic? If so, can you compare the two as to the color of what gets blown out? I'm very curious, because even using my super clear (but flavored) juice what I blow out of a carto after days of use is quite dark.
ETA: I'm adding a bit of tobacco absolute in my blends, a natural product, so I expect a lot of that residue may be just that -- the TA.
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When vaping unflavored Nic juice, I use a 16mg 70PG/30PG blend (all from RTS Vapes) in a tank with Boge LR or ST 1.7 SC cartos. The juice and carto filler always remains clear.
I have CE2's that I have been using since July. After reading the above I took a syringe and sucked up the juice in one of the cartos. It looked just as clear as my unused juice. Well over a 100 ml's have gone through this carto. The coil is black but I can still see the wick underneath it. I am using 50vg/50/pg and 3 to 4% FlavorArt peach juce in this carto.
I do 80/20 or 70/30 PG/VG DIY with the minimum percentage of flavorings necessary to make it taste good to me. I use only EM as my sweetener--don't like the other sweetener options. I can honestly say none of my home brewed juices have been wildly carto clogging no matter what flavorings I used but I don't like any of the tobacco essences so I can't say if those are less carto friendly.
The only super carto killers for me are house extracted real tobacco juices which I love and will not give up completely no matter what. I vape sweet stuff I make 75% of the time and premade extracted tobacco ones 25% of the time and this helps me with carto longevity/value.
The only super carto killers for me are house extracted real tobacco juices which I love and will not give up completely no matter what. I vape sweet stuff I make 75% of the time and premade extracted tobacco ones 25% of the time and this helps me with carto longevity/value.
You didn't ask me, and I have also never used any, so I should keep quiet... Which I am not particularly good at doing...
I will probably never use other sweeteners than EM, at least not anything sucralose-based (aka splendex/splenda etc). Simply because it tastes rather vile to me. I don't know if anyone's tried using something aspartame-based (aka NutraSweet), but that's out too for me - I don't believe in the evils of NutraSweet, but it does give me a headache.
I'm wondering if anyone's tried other sweeteners? Like Xylitol, Maltitol, Sorbitol etc - the "bulk sweeteners" mentioned on this page.
Xylitol might be interesting (though expensive and probably hard to source), as there are studies linking the use of Xylitol chewing gum by mothers to decreased frequency of ear infections in toddlers, and of course the anti-tooth decay properties of it is well known. Maybe Xylitol-sweetened e-juice will be the first "functional vape"...
Eh, that was a bit
On the actual topic of carto lonegvity I don't have much to say yet (being so new to vaping), but as usual that only means I'll use more words and a chattier tone
When I read ECF in general I get the impression that my cartos (Boge, both SR and 2 Ohm) seem to last and last and last in comparison to what many people are reporting.
I was even concerned that I just didn't notice/taste/feel when they started to go south, but reading a bit more (and after dropping one hard enough that the draw became a bit weird) decided that no, my cartos really are in reasonably good shape even after several weeks of use.
Right this minute I am vaping on a carto that I first filled around 18-20th of December (menthol, mint, some tobacco and lots of unflavoured through it during this month).
Some reasons for this might be that
- I use several and rotate them. During a typical day I will probably use at least three, often four or five.
- I use comparatively little flavouring, diluting even commercial juices.
- I try to keep my cartos fairly well topped up, adding a few drops before they start to taste "dry"*.
My habit of sometimes topping up with unflavoured juice might also be beneficial - IDK.
- Or maybe the fact that I am a bit neurotic about blowing out the excess contributes to this longevity?
Before screwing on a different carto I nearly always top it up with a few drops and then blow it out in a cloth hanky until nothing more comes out the battery-end. (I'm also fairly neurotic about cleaning small leaks from the batteries' connection - so much so that I now include not only the cloth hanky in my vaping pouch but also a few Q-tips).
This thread is very interesting to me since I am brewing my own tobacco extract, and that stuff is both very dark in colour and not completely clear. (Particulates aggregate in the bottle if left for a few days - unfortunately not at the bottom, but suspended a little bit above it, and as soon as you touch the bottle they disperse again, so it's impossible to scoop them out. I just yesterday ran my extract through a doubled paper coffe filter (again), but I fear these particles are too small to be caught by that.)
So far I haven't noticed my homebrews being harsher on the cartos (except cosmetically, see below) than liquids made from bought ingredients, but it is still too early to say.
Yesterday I cleaned (some of) my used cartos for the first time ever.
One thing that I noticed is that the 2 ohms seem to deteriorate a bit more than the SR version:
After boiling (x3) and shaking and blowing I decided to run some alcohol through the cartos, figuring it might help with the drying and clean out even a little more old flavours.
So I filled up condoms with some vodka-PGA mix (wanting to save my on PGA and figuring ~70% alc would be better than 40%).
And I discovered that my newly boiled SR cartos happily absorbed 1 ml and even a bit more (maybe 1.2ml), while my LR cartos didn't want to suck up even one full ml.
This is quite logical when you think about it: if the same filling materials are used in both, but one runs hotter than the other it isn't surprising that some deterioration of this absorbent has occurred after 1-5 weeks of use.
Today when I looked at the drying cartos I noticed that the filler in the ones I have used my extract-based juice in (one SR, one LR) do have a little bit of a stain when compared to the snow whiteness of the ones used only for liquids made out of bought ingredients. No noticeable smell though.
*I did however manage to do a really stupid noob-stupidity last week: I was upset because I had dropped my current favourite carto, and after that the draw was a bit off and uneven. So I broke out a new one, a pretty shiny 2 Ohm. And proceded to fill it with a juice made from my home-extracted tobacco liquid. But I was a bit impatient and didn't let it settle. Oy! that horrible, horrible burnt taste. Blech. I thought I had ruined it for ever. Luckily I didn't throw it away but just let it sit for a few days, periodically adding a few drops of unflavoured or watered down VG and testing it. For a few days it could only deliver a few puffs before a whiff of the "burnt horror" was noticed. But on day 3 or 4 when I looked at it, it looked well saturated and moist so I blew it out and was about to add a bit of my extract juice - and that's when I noticed a teeny tiny speck of particulate near the center. Fished it out with a toothpick, and it's been a quite serviceable carto for about a week now. Though still a bit more prone to "dried out" taste. It will be interesting to perform an autopsy on it when the time comes - did I burn the filler and wicking material, or was it just this particulate that caused the problem?
The caramelization from flavors is from the natural sugars if you are using organic flavors, artificial sugar and artificial flavors if you are not using organic. Lorann's even adds food coloring which can't possibly help, if it is vegetable coloring that too would contain some natural sugars. Every fruit and veggie contains natural sugar, even in liquid form. Best way to see how sweet things really are is to pop fruits and veggies on the grill or roast in the oven. Don't even add oil, salt, just do it plain. Each one has a level of sweetness, even just fresh once you can recognize it.
And this includes tobacco leaves. Wikipedia's section on different methods of curing tobacco is quite interesting in this regard.
That's a lot words for someone who doesn't have a lot to say.
Same here, I have found that flavor is something like salt. The more you use the more you need to keep it tasting the same. Up to a point your taste buds just get used to whatever level of flavouring that is in your juice. Using less is better for cartos and probably your lungs.
Absolutely! As long as the heating element is wet it will only go to about F 368. Actually less because that is the boiling point of pg and everything else has a lower boiling point. Think of boiling water in a paper cup.
Another reason is that lower ohm carto will vaporize more juice. If it is going through more juice it is bound to deteriorate faster.
A lower ohm carto will also have more trouble wicking fast enough to keep the coil wet, resulting in higher temperature and melting the filler.
Just one more thing be careful with extracts. You are extracting everything that is soluble in the liquid you are using. Tobacco and some of the other flavors we vape have some nasty chemicals.
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I agree that lighter colored/flavored fluids seem to make a carto last longer. I only use one vendor these days, but the differences in fluids sometimes makes a HUGE difference. One flavor, for example, tasted great but gunked up the carto relatively quick. It was a fairly light colored fluid, but very flavorful. I liked the flavor, but I won't buy it again just because of the gunking issues :/
Airborne contamination is one thing that I almost never hear mentioned that I think contributes to gunked up attys/cartos. Dust, pollen, pollution, ect - stuff sucked into the cartos from the very air we breathe. I don't think it's a huge factor, but I do think it contributes to some extent. I'm sure some of us vape in cleaner environments than others, so I'm sure the severity will vary considerably. Something to think about anyway.
Airborne contamination is one thing that I almost never hear mentioned that I think contributes to gunked up attys/cartos. Dust, pollen, pollution, ect - stuff sucked into the cartos from the very air we breathe. I don't think it's a huge factor, but I do think it contributes to some extent. I'm sure some of us vape in cleaner environments than others, so I'm sure the severity will vary considerably. Something to think about anyway.
I have been very interested in this topic for quite sometime. I used to love the juice from a certain vendor but after only 1 day, the flavor became so stale I had to throw the carto away. I know cartos are cheap but throwing one away every day adds up! I went back to the very basics and did an experiment a couple months ago.. I vaped totally unflavored juice in a carto and it lasted almost 5 weeks before I decided it wasn't worth it anymore! Since then I've quit buying from that vendor and rely purely on my own mixes... which are very simple. Vaping unflavored really "resets" my tastebuds and now I only use a few drops of whatever flavor I use. I regularly run plain unflavored through my tanks, every third or so fill and that seems to keep the carto going for a couple weeks.
My current favorite mix is vanilla custard cookie (capella vanilla custard and FA cookie) I do add a couple drops of tasty vapor's sweetener which is composed of water, PG and sucralose. I'll use a carto until it ceases to perform and/or taste satisfactory to me. I mainly use Boge and smoktech.
The only "store bought" juice that I buy anymore is KBV warm sugar cookie, it is very carto friendly. I ran out of PG for a week or so and had to vape the KBV juice and got sick of it after a few days. I was sooo happy to get that PG in and make up a batch of unflavored!
I actually posted a topic like this over on the juice forum but no one seemed interested. A couple people would say that cartos are disposable and to just throw them away, not many people seemed to be interested in carto friendly juices.
My current favorite mix is vanilla custard cookie (capella vanilla custard and FA cookie) I do add a couple drops of tasty vapor's sweetener which is composed of water, PG and sucralose. I'll use a carto until it ceases to perform and/or taste satisfactory to me. I mainly use Boge and smoktech.
The only "store bought" juice that I buy anymore is KBV warm sugar cookie, it is very carto friendly. I ran out of PG for a week or so and had to vape the KBV juice and got sick of it after a few days. I was sooo happy to get that PG in and make up a batch of unflavored!
I actually posted a topic like this over on the juice forum but no one seemed interested. A couple people would say that cartos are disposable and to just throw them away, not many people seemed to be interested in carto friendly juices.
I've been vaping for nearly 3 months and to date have only tossed 4 or 5 cartos, those being dc clear that were drawing tightly and didn't make it through a cleaning.
I top off often.
When the draw gets tight, or the juice starts tasting weak or funky, I blow it out. Probably every day or 2. With my coffee extractions several times a day.
When blowing out no longer works, I soak them overnight in water (sometimes adding a bit of white vinegar) then run water (hot) through them with a 20ml syringe/condom (cap end cut off then tied to syringe w/zip tie) gizmo I put together a few times, blow it out then dry them. A few haven't made it through this process, but most are like new when finished. If they held a strong flavor, after the water soak I blow it out and soak overnight in vodka.
I don't care for vendors juices, and mix my own on the weak side. I always have a couple of flavors in rotation throughout the day, and find I get bored and switch flavors often as well, so my cartos get cleaned often...and just don't wear out! There is the exception of the ones that aren't built well enough to make it through the wash...you know the ones I mean..the clear tubes can easily be pulled off with little effort right out of the box? I don't buy those anymore.
I've purchased a lot of cartos in anticipation of my husband joining me on the vaping journey (still waiting on that one) and overall still have all of them!
I top off often.
When the draw gets tight, or the juice starts tasting weak or funky, I blow it out. Probably every day or 2. With my coffee extractions several times a day.
When blowing out no longer works, I soak them overnight in water (sometimes adding a bit of white vinegar) then run water (hot) through them with a 20ml syringe/condom (cap end cut off then tied to syringe w/zip tie) gizmo I put together a few times, blow it out then dry them. A few haven't made it through this process, but most are like new when finished. If they held a strong flavor, after the water soak I blow it out and soak overnight in vodka.
I don't care for vendors juices, and mix my own on the weak side. I always have a couple of flavors in rotation throughout the day, and find I get bored and switch flavors often as well, so my cartos get cleaned often...and just don't wear out! There is the exception of the ones that aren't built well enough to make it through the wash...you know the ones I mean..the clear tubes can easily be pulled off with little effort right out of the box? I don't buy those anymore.
I've purchased a lot of cartos in anticipation of my husband joining me on the vaping journey (still waiting on that one) and overall still have all of them!
I love carto friendly juices! The first year I vaped I only used TV juices, but they clogged up my atty's within a few days and when I used carto's those would clog in 24 hrs. I vape 6 ml of juice a day and when the tanks came out last summer I fell in love with them but it meant going back to using cartos. So, back I went, to cartos .. and alas I was going thru one carto every 24 hrs. But then a vendor told me to try making my own juice and to keep the flavoring % very low, he suggested no more than 6%. I took his advice, made my first DIY at 6%, liked it .. a week later I reduced my flavoring down to 4% and that's where it has stayed for 6 months now. My cartos last me about 5-6 days (wish they'd last me weeks and weeks like yours do) but that's probably because I chain vape and suck on them too often and too hard LOL .. but it sure is better than only lasting 24 hrs.
mine don't exactly last weeks and weeks LOL. While I do like unflavored.. I also like flavors. TV juices may be good but not if they mess up my cartos so quick. I haven't noticed any particular vendor flavors lasting longer than others. I use mainly capella and FA cookie. Another good tip... even if you use a particular juice that is a carto clogger.. if you first fill with that juice, then the next filling (either the carto itself or a tank) use unflavored, I still get the good flavor, and the unflavored seems to flush the carto and clean it. This seems to work with TV juice also.
My first year I only used TV and I was crushed when I figured out that the particular juices I used (waffle, caramel popcorn and tastyfinger) were carto cloggers. I don't know what exactly is in them that causes this. I use the sweetener from there but only a drop or two. I have some cotton candy flavor (em) that I am going to use for a sweetener for my next batch and see if that makes a difference.
My first year I only used TV and I was crushed when I figured out that the particular juices I used (waffle, caramel popcorn and tastyfinger) were carto cloggers. I don't know what exactly is in them that causes this. I use the sweetener from there but only a drop or two. I have some cotton candy flavor (em) that I am going to use for a sweetener for my next batch and see if that makes a difference.
A few weeks ago I mixed up some plain VG/PG with nic and no flavoring and added just some EM, it came out tasting close to Malty plus it kept my carto nice and clean. I had read your post about your results using unflavored but I wanted a little something else in it, so using just the EM fits the bill for me. And, for the past few days I've been filling every 2nd or 3rd tankful with that and so far my carto is staying perfect.
I've been running a lot of my own juice through a Resurrector carto tank in the past week, and the carto's like new. The juice I'm testing there is very close to clear @ 60/40 PG/VG.
The same setup lasted only 3-4 days with a dark (caramel-brown) 30/70 PG/VG juice before it was too clogged to be worth using.
The same setup lasted only 3-4 days with a dark (caramel-brown) 30/70 PG/VG juice before it was too clogged to be worth using.
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