An open letter to battery rewrapping companies and manufacturers

[Mooch]

You want to have the higher pulse/max discharge current numbers on your batteries.
I want vapers to be safe and to know the true ratings of the batteries they use.

Right now all of the "pulse" and "max discharge" numbers are useless because there is no standard for setting these ratings. There's no way to compare one battery's pulse/max numbers with another's. This is unacceptable and causes a great deal of confusion within the community.

I have a proposal for you.

Let's get together and set the testing methods to use for establishing a true pulse rating. A single, carefully defined standard that would help measure performance but also keep vapers within safe limits for the battery. Along with the continuous current rating this pulse rating would help vapers choose the battery that is best for the way they vape.

If you're interested, please contact me at batterymooch@yahoo.com.

If there is enough interest we can discuss what you'd like see included in the testing or I can propose a testing standard and we can start from there.

I can also propose a standardized testing equipment setup that can be used for testing to set the pulse rating and for posting results if you would want that to be part of your marketing.

The OEM Samsung, Sony, LG, and Panasonic/Sanyo batteries that vapers use would be tested by me and their pulse ratings posted.

The benefits for any company doing this should be obvious. I'm hoping you will join me in working towards creating a pulse rating that vapers can trust when shopping and feel safe using when vaping!

 

[taffyjock]

I agree, another issue with cells is that most vapers don't frequent forums & the numbers/discharge graphs are mostly meaningless to them.



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[sonicbomb]

Numbers the consumer can trust mean better sales.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Honest, tested numbers would lead to fewer vaping related snafus... I'm all in... great idea!

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[DaveP]

Pulse ratings on batteries are kind of like maximum RPM ratings on car engines. You can go there if you have to when passing on the highway, but don't stay there for long or you'll blow an engine.

 

[Oomee]

Pulse ratings on batteries are kind of like maximum RPM ratings on car engines. You can go there if you have to when passing on the highway, but don't stay there for long or you'll blow an engine.

The point being how long is "too long"?
There is no room for ambiguity in the specifications of electronic devices, especially critical ones.

On an unrelated note...
Hey Mooch, did I hear correct and you was in receipt of a "thank you" from AvE?

 

[DaveP]

The point being how long is "too long"?
There is no room for ambiguity in the specifications of electronic devices, especially critical ones.

Exactly. There are those of us who assume that max ratings are just safe guidelines and you can push it a little more without harm. Playing Evel Knievel with a mod between your lips is a dangerous sport. Yeah, there's only a dozen or so reported serious injuries with mods out of millions of vapers, but we don't want anyone to be the next one. Most of the unlucky ones have permanent burn scars on faces, arms, and legs.

 

[Oomee]

Exactly. There are those of us who assume that max ratings are just safe guidelines and you can push it a little more without harm. Playing Evel Knievel with a mod between your lips is a dangerous sport. Yeah, there's only a dozen or so reported serious injuries with mods out of millions of vapers, but we don't want anyone to be the next one.

Akin to jumping over a campfire with a stick of dynamite firmly gripped between buttcheeks!

 

[DaveP]

Akin to jumping over a campfire with a stick of dynamite firmly gripped between buttcheeks!

History and the newspaper report the demise of daredevils.

 

[dc99]

It would be so nice for a little honesty in this category since it involves something so potentially dangerous. Pulse ratings really don't seem to mean very much with vaping considering you shouldn't be that close to a batteries maximum output. Just my opinion. I think it leads people to believe if the pulse is 40a then as long as they stay under that its OK. Maybe if the rating was say 10sec it would help since few exceed that but in the same context it would help to know the recovery time between pulses. In other words: take a battery with a 40a pulse rating. Can you pulse it, wait 2 seconds and pulse it again and again.
Mooch you should make your charts available to shops.

 

[Foggy Road]

I'm most interested in hearing if you get a single indication of positive interest from the parties that the OP was addressed to.

 

[DaveP]

It would be so nice for a little honesty in this category since it involves something so potentially dangerous. Pulse ratings really don't seem to mean very much with vaping considering you shouldn't be that close to a batteries maximum output. Just my opinion. I think it leads people to believe if the pulse is 40a then as long as they stay under that its OK. Maybe if the rating was say 10sec it would help since few exceed that but in the same context it would help to know the recovery time between pulses. In other words: take a battery with a 40a pulse rating. Can you pulse it, wait 2 seconds and pulse it again and again.
Mooch you should make your charts available to shops.

That's the important point. Pulse to me is a short actuation. When people over stress batteries it happens when they push it past CDR and hold it for much longer time. It's why most mods have a 10 or 15 second cutoff. Vape time limitations on mods probably save a lot of us from reaching a danger point.

As you alluded to, pushing a 200W vape to cutoff and hitting it again and again doesn't leave much rest time for the battery. Heat kills batteries.

 

[DaveP]

I'm most interested in hearing if you get a single indication of positive interest from the parties that the OP was addressed to.

Bumping the thread keeps it active and more likely to be seen by the target audience. You have to wonder how many battery manufacturers and re-wrappers will actually see it here, though.

Reading the original post is one thing, but some of them will probably see it in a browser search as they look for various battery related items. That's a good way for them to click and see it on the original forum.

 

[Mooch]

The point being how long is "too long"?
There is no room for ambiguity in the specifications of electronic devices, especially critical ones.

On an unrelated note...
Hey Mooch, did I hear correct and you was in receipt of a "thank you" from AvE?

Yup...very cool.

 

[Mooch]

It would be so nice for a little honesty in this category since it involves something so potentially dangerous. Pulse ratings really don't seem to mean very much with vaping considering you shouldn't be that close to a batteries maximum output. Just my opinion. I think it leads people to believe if the pulse is 40a then as long as they stay under that its OK. Maybe if the rating was say 10sec it would help since few exceed that but in the same context it would help to know the recovery time between pulses. In other words: take a battery with a 40a pulse rating. Can you pulse it, wait 2 seconds and pulse it again and again.
Mooch you should make your charts available to shops.

They've always been free to use them and many do.

 

[Mooch]

Bumping the thread keeps it active and more likely to be seen by the target audience. You have to wonder how many battery manufacturers and re-wrappers will actually see it here, though.

Reading the original post is one thing, but some of them will probably see it in a browser search as they look for various battery related items. That's a good way for them to click and see it on the original forum.

I've posted this to Facebook, ECR, and ECF.

 

[Oomee]

Yup...very cool.

Totally skookum!
Keep those pixies choochin'.

 

[retired1]

Quite honestly? I'd prefer to see pulse ratings go the way of the Dodo bird. There are far too many taking that rating as a CDR and we will continue to see individuals misusing batteries as a result.

 

[Mooch]

Quite honestly? I'd prefer to see pulse ratings go the way of the Dodo bird. There are far too many taking that rating as a CDR and we will continue to see individuals misusing batteries as a result.

I agree with a lot of what your saying.

IMO these companies will never agree to that though. They might, perhaps, agree to a standard for pulse ratings that still provide some safety.

 

[retired1]

I agree with a lot of what your saying.

IMO these companies will never agree to that though. They might, perhaps, agree to a standard for pulse ratings that still provide some safety.

The problem with all this is the majority of those who are supplying batteries with those ratings do not manufacture the battery. They're scooping them up from sources outside the manufacturer (or possibly even from the manufacturer themselves) and applying their own wraps to them.

Because of the legal ramifications, I don't see battery manufacturers agreeing to a Pulse rating standard. And for the vast majority of those companies that take these batteries and grossly over inflate the ratings, it's obvious they don't care about consumer safety. As long as the bucks roll in, they're perfectly content to continue this dangerous practice. This is one of the reasons why I'm glad the FDA has handed the issue of battery safety to the CPSC. (Consumer Product Safety Commission & vaping batteries regulation)