Another e-cig company merges with big tobacco

[CES]

National tobacco seems to specialize in smokeless tobacco products. Because smokeless are already taxed less than and are in competiton with combustible products, Perhaps NT will be a bigger supporter of tobacco harm reduction, and not support the same type of legislation that RJR is trying to push through.

(Yes, some days i am an optimist )

 

[boshans]

RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris already have an ecig that they made on the market, along with Blu being owned by BT already. If you think that the FDA can outright ban ecigs now I personally think you are worrying to much. But they will probbaly be taxed and regulated, which would make some of the juices safer so whatever. As long as it isn't taxed to much. And most of the vendors I buy from would probably already pass any regulations they would make on how they have to make the juice.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

I don't worry so much about any FDA regulations. Sensible regulations wouldn't bother me. What is going to bother me is the big time taxes that almost always seem to follow.

I'm a huge advocate of ecigs. But I also see a major problem. For every smoker that quits, that costs the federal government $1.01 a pack (not to mention state governments - anywhere from .30 to $4.35 a pack). That's a tremendous amount to tax revenue that is already allocated to fund some asinine government entitlement program. Federal and State governments simply cannot let that money disappear. They're going to get it back and ecigs will be a major target.

Cigarette smokers should be given medals. They fund everyone else's health care, while dying too early to take advantage of said health care.

 

[Demiurgous]

But they will probbaly be taxed and regulated, which would make some of the juices safer so whatever.

I fail to see how. Can you enlighten me? BT hasn't done anything, to my knowledge, in regards to safety that they weren't FORCED to do.

 

[JJOOHHNN]

Follow the incentive trail.

Cig's are profitable due to high volume of sales. They are going to need to replace the margin lost to e-cigs. Selling juice is not going to cut it as it will cut into not individual margin but total margin dollars. This is going to encourage trying to find a way to move it back to and keep it a pre-filled world.

Perhaps by saying pre-filled is the only way to assure the content of the product.

Look at Blu pricing. If they are selling liquid it is because the market encourages it. Now if you can make liquid a bad thing and pre-filled a good thing there ya go. Margin dollars restored.

 

[Robino1]

Follow the incentive trail.

Cig's are profitable due to high volume of sales. They are going to need to replace the margin lost to e-cigs. Selling juice is not going to cut it as it will cut into not individual margin but total margin dollars. This is going to encourage trying to find a way to move it back to and keep it a pre-filled world.

Perhaps by saying pre-filled is the only way to assure the content of the product.

Look at Blu pricing. If they are selling liquid it is because the market encourages it. Now if you can make liquid a bad thing and pre-filled a good thing there ya go. Margin dollars restored.

^^^^^ this!

BT wants the liquids to go away. They want their prefilled horrible battery life products to be the only game. They want it to be legislated where since this is a tobacco product, you must have a tobacco license to sell it. They want to eliminate Internet sales by having to verify age (god forbid it hurts the kids). They already have the licenses in place to sell ecigs because they already sell tobacco!

Has anyone noticed they are buying the prefilled ecig companies?!? There is a reason behind their methods. The bills that RJR are writing are only in the favor of BT, not anyone else. Grease enough palms and those bills go through. Common sense doesn't factor in.

 

[cocacola31173]

Well I just hope that if anything does happen and they decide to tax that 0 nic will be left alone. If worst comes to worse I can always get by on that.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

Perhaps by saying pre-filled is the only way to assure the content of the product.

Bingo! Packaging, availability and taxes are ultimately going to mimic analogs. The sad thing is that millions of soon to be vapors won't even know there used to be a better world.

I would add that pre-filled devices will also make them easier to tax and regulate.

It's gonna suck people. That's why I keep telling folks...This battle is bigger than ecigs and ejuice. It is, and has been for many years now, about the government getting the hell out of our lives. My opinion? The nanny is already too big to stop.

 

[Robino1]

Bingo! Packaging, availability and taxes are ultimately going to mimic analogs. The sad thing is that millions of soon to be vapors won't even know there used to be a better world.

I would add that pre-filled devices will also make them easier to tax and regulate.

It's gonna suck people. That's why I keep telling folks...This battle is bigger than ecigs and ejuice. It is, and has been for many years now, about the government getting the hell out of our lives. My opinion? The nanny is already too big to stop.

I hate to say you're right.
But I do plan to keep fighting. At least I will be able to say I tried!

 

[Vapor Vinny]

Well I just hope that if anything does happen and they decide to tax that 0 nic will be left alone. If worst comes to worse I can always get by on that.

Worse comes to worse you can make that yourself very easily.

 

[Whosback]

Why do we vape? To get off the cigs, right? Because we view this as less harmful.

So we view cigs as harmful. BT made those cigs, right? They've made them harmful?

You want them messing with your juice? Really? You trust them to provide a SAFE product?



Please, tell me more.

That is my other concern too. We cant trust them. I rarely like to follow the stereotypes of peoples, but BT is the epitome of the evil corporate empire.

They knew cigs were harmful, to keep us addicted to spite the risk they added in more chemicals that made the addiction stronger and caused more risk. They don't have a corporate plan that stops at one generation. They knowingly and are willingly thinking up ways to continue this harm for many generations to come. The same struggles with addiction and illness that we and many of our loved ones face they want to pass on to our children.

Now do you really want to trust them with our juice?

 

[AngelsBreath]

I said this a long time ago, if more people go to e-cigs the government is going to lose .... loads of money, they will NOT like that at all. The money has to be replaced and e-cigs is how they are going to replace their lost revenue. They want to regulate it, that's just a nice word for them to use, what it really means is they want to tax the hell out of it.

 

[Robino1]

That is my other concern too. We cant trust them. I rarely like to follow the stereotypes of peoples, but BT is the epitome of the evil corporate empire.

They knew cigs were harmful, to keep us addicted to spite the risk they added in more chemicals that made the addiction stronger and caused more risk. They don't have a corporate plan that stops at one generation. They knowingly and are willingly thinking up ways to continue this harm for many generations to come. The same struggles with addiction and illness that we and many of our loved ones face they want to pass on to our children.

Now do you really want to trust them with our juice?

And be the only juice to get.......

My answer would be NO.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

I hate to say you're right.
But I do plan to keep fighting. At least I will be able to say I tried!

I admire your spirit. I'm done fighting. I fought like hell the last 4 years. I was called a nut job. We can only hope the political climate in this country changes drastically very soon because once the taxes are in place, there is no turning back.

The days of making your own ejuice or buying from a small vendor are soon to pass. I don't have to guess. I know. Because that's how everything else turns out in this country.

 

[AngelsBreath]

I do not want them loading thousands of carcinogens into my juice...been there, done that. I played with them for 30 years and I'm done playing with them. I don't want the garbage they sell anymore and I don't want that addiction back!

 

[Demiurgous]

I said this a long time ago, if more people go to e-cigs the government is going to lose .... loads of money, they will NOT like that at all. The money has to be replaced and e-cigs is how they are going to replace their lost revenue. They want to regulate it, that's just a nice word for them to use, what it really means is they want to tax the hell out of it.

Sure, it generates tax revenue. No doubt about it.

But the health concerns cost far more than the revenue generated. Think about the medicare and medicaid dollars spent on health issues from cigs. Think about the emergency room visits for uninsured/underinsured people with complications from smoking. The money spent addressing medical issues far exceeds the taxes generated.

Quite frankly, a revenue-based argument falls flat.

Now, if you want to talk revenue for the politicians that receive substantial donations from BT, we can have that talk.

 

[TyPie]

I hate to sound skeptical, because I am usually a very optimistic type of person. BUT....I have seen politicians and government 'get involved' in a couple of other industries in the past, and IT WAS NOT GOOD. Lots of unreadable, illegible regulation, heavily stacked in favor of the established, major industry players, and the 'little guy' was CRUSHED. This happens over, and over, and over again. History should be our guide.

Yes folks, BT smells the $$$, and are also fearful of the promise of ecigs. Follow the money. This will all be about control of nicotine, its format, and its distribution. I fear regulation, high taxes, higher prices, and hurting a lot of small business people who are thriving right now.

Hardware? (Betteries, tubes, mods, etc, etc, etc.....) Maybe not so much. It's the SOFTWARE......the juice that they are after. It will be interesting to watch, but pay particular attention to the flow of money. And, it IS time to get involved and make sure your voices are heard.

 

[boshans]

I fail to see how. Can you enlighten me? BT hasn't done anything, to my knowledge, in regards to safety that they weren't FORCED to do.

Well I just mean FDA regulations that, say, would make the juice maker have a protected enviornment with which to make the juice, and to wear gear to prevent contamination. Basically so they can't just go make juice in their garage with normal clothes and then sell it. If you ever watch the Johnson Creek video on what their juice making lab looks like you would know what I am talking about. Just talking about that, nothing more.

 

[Demiurgous]

If you ever watch the Johnson Creek video on what their juice making lab looks like you would know what I am talking about. Just talking about that, nothing more.

Interesting. Off to Google I go.

 

[boshans]

I said this a long time ago, if more people go to e-cigs the government is going to lose .... loads of money, they will NOT like that at all. The money has to be replaced and e-cigs is how they are going to replace their lost revenue. They want to regulate it, that's just a nice word for them to use, what it really means is they want to tax the hell out of it.

They also lose .... loads of money from all the people in hospitals and continued healthcare for all the people who smoke analogs. So I would say it evens out, only talking about tax dollars. If you add the money BT gives the gov't, you know under the table, they probably do make more.