Anti B&M

[VapieDan]

That's right, I'm against my local B&M stores. They charge far too much for what I'd like to purchase so I scour the interwebs for deals that make my wallet happy.
Sorry, but getting something right now isn't worth the extra dollars to me. I'll be ok waiting for something I find more reasonably priced.

I understand the costs involved in operating a retail storefront store are far higher than the internet however at some point it approaches price gouging. Retail price is OK by me. You are paying for convenience and hopefully customer service. When the prices are 2X retail or more and the staff resembles something found in a fast food restaurant game over.

 

[Technohydra]

From my experience, I have to agree with the anti B&m experience in central Nebraska anyways. The only shop around here for 2 hours wants $200 for a VTR ( I bought mine for $65 from a US vendor), still thinks that you have to set both volts and watts at the same time, and mixed me a juice in the front room (!) that had to have 15% of 4x concentrated LorAnn raspberry flavoring in it. I had asthma effects for a week after vaping .25 mills of it. They also have a huge sign on the door that irresponsibly states, 'We can save your life' which is both pretty brash and an FDA no no. All of this while an 8 months pregnant employee sits behind the counter blowing clouds...

 

[Fast and Furious]

The local B&M I looked up on-line and didn't go to:

KangerTech EVOD Starter Kit (Black) ...................................... $49.95
Kanger T3S BCC eGo Clearomizer (Bottom Changeable Coil) ...... $ 9.95
Kanger T3S / MT3S BCC Clearomizer Coil Heads (5-Pack) ........... $14.95
Joyetech eGo-C 650mA USB Passthrough Battery (Upgrade) ....... $22.95
Innokin iTaste MVP Kit V2.0 (MOD)......................................... $69.95
Innokin iTaste VV Simple Kit V3.0 (MOD)................................. $49.95

Tom

 

[Myk]

I suppose you've got a good point there. Before joining the ECF all I knew was an ego with a T3S, LOL. I think with all the new shops opening here, most probably are inexperienced people trying to make a quick buck.

Mine is inexperienced (but learning quickly). I don't think it was to make a quick buck as it was the zealotry of a newly quit smoker thinking they would provide a service and get people to quit smoking.
Seriously with an FDA crackdown looming I have to question the sense in opening a store that could be shut down before it's paid for and while you still have a lease to pay off.

Although I don't doubt some are getting into it and really price gouging to make a quick enough and big enough buck that the risk of being shut down is minimal. Especially true of the mall Kiosks.

 

[spookyluke]

wow

Is it that complicated and expensive to get a pack of cigarettes??

I'm pretty sure Australia has the highest tax added onto cigarettes. Over $20 for a 25 pack of Marlboro lights.

 

[OBDave]

Here in Louisville Kentucky you'll see a range from $10 to $15 per square foot per year depending on location and newness of the space/building.

The San Diego per square foot per year rate is in the $10.80 to $18.00 range, or $0.90 to $1.50 per month per square foot.

Plus in Cali minimum wage is $10.00 and hour vs. our $7.25, and electric rates are about 500% of ours here in little old Kentucky.

Cost of doing business is not cheap, and I like to think at the very minimum I am helping employ a person or two buy frequenting the local B&M (what does that even stand for by the way?). Similarly I buy stuff at the little mom and pop hardware store around the corner, the one of a kind bakery is where I get bread, etc.

Sometimes I buy online, when I can't get what I want local. But I do know that if my money is floating around closer to me, the more likely some of it will land right back in my hands later on.

I'm sure wherever you work, there is an option for the customers to go elsewhere or do it themselves, then what?

We are really in a global all access world, so you are free to purchase from just about anyone anywhere, but it is important to at least consider how this effects your local economy and thus you.

Maurice

I like a lot of what you're saying here, and I totally understand that operating a brick & mortar physical shop is more costly than operating a virtual store online. And I'm also aware that operating a mom-and-pop store is more expensive than a big chain.

That said, I do try to frequent the small guys when I can - my part of town is notorious for doing a lot more to prop up local merchants and support the community than most urban neighborhoods. We have virtually no chain stores of any type around here, so I buy from the local hardware shop for most small needs, a local bakery for pastries, I dine in local restaurants, I consult my local business directory for tradesmen and services before going elsewhere.

And I expect to pay a premium for that. As far as a vape shop goes, I'd expect to pay 20-30% more in a store for a product than online - but not 100-300% more. There are US vendors that sell the iTaste VV v3.0, for example, for $25-$30 for just the battery - I've even seen them at that price including clearos. So I'd gladly pay $35, maybe $40 for the same from a B&M...but I think $50+ is pushing it. Kanger coils, which run about $1.20 online, I could pay $1.75-$2.00 for, but not $3.00.

I know it sounds like nitpicking, especially when whining about something as cheap as a pre-built coil, but if I paid 2-3 times too much for all of my vaping gear (considering I've got over $1300 into devices, toppers, and juices for me and the wife over the course of under a year), I'd be going broke in a hurry. And if every local retailer was trying to gouge me this way (like if the local hardware store wanted me to pay $30 for a screwdriver set I could get at Home Depot for $10), there's no way I, or anyone in their right mind, would stand for it.

 

[jwag1973]

Mine is inexperienced (but learning quickly). I don't think it was to make a quick buck as it was the zealotry of a newly quit smoker thinking they would provide a service and get people to quit smoking.
Seriously with an FDA crackdown looming I have to question the sense in opening a store that could be shut down before it's paid for and while you still have a lease to pay off.

Although I don't doubt some are getting into it and really price gouging to make a quick enough and big enough buck that the risk of being shut down is minimal. Especially true of the mall Kiosks.

Myk, you could be right about the newly quit smoker trying to help others. I think most vapor's do this! As far as the FDA regulations go...the local B&M owner's I've spoke with seem to think the new regs will help them tremendously, especially if they stop the online sales!

 

[Bramble]

I'm pretty sure Australia has the highest tax added onto cigarettes. Over $20 for a 25 pack of Marlboro lights.

Wow. I had no idea But looking at the smoking rates it seems you still have a rate similar to ours (about 20%). I am confused why governments, including the US, think that raising the price to such an obscene level is useful.

I was paying just over $7 a pack. Your dollars are about the same exchange for ours so... wow... I will never complain about Utah and it's smoking/vaping laws again. Do they even let you vape there???

Sorry I'm not trying to be dense or nosy, I'm just curious.

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

Just today I was on my way to a B&M vape store I had found a listing for in a dogpile.com search, when I ran across a brand new store that has only been open a few days.

This is one of very very few in the west suburbs of Detroit yet, so I turned around and went to check it out.

The Vape Select

Not much in the way of hardware just yet, and they are very much into the Innokin product lines.

At this point, they only have 1 line of juices - made in Gaylord Michigan, but was a little pricey at $10 / 15ml. They have 2 more juice lines coming, one at the "value" price-point, and the other at the "premium" prices.

One thing I was hoping to see, and did see, was a nice product selection for the 'starter kits'.

They had good offerings at each of the $30, $40, $50 & $60 prices. Most were Innokin products, and one that wasn't (don't remember), but, overall good prices & specs on the kits.

This is important to me to be able to refer people that I talk with to, who are usually looking for a local source of products.

One item I specifically wanted to check out was the MVP V2.0 - and it is $60. Same as at Mt. Baker Vapor and less than 3 other online vendors I have seen.

A couple more items I remember prices for are iTaste 16 tanks - $3.99, 5 pack KangerTech branded coil heads - $8

I'm also very impressed with Mikey's technical knowledge, and sense that he works to fit a customer up with the right level of hardware for them (doesn't oversell them!) According to his partner Jimmie, he's very passionate about everything vaping

Overall I'm giving these guys (Mikey & Jimmie) 2 major thumbs-up, and more importantly, I feel very comfortable with referring potential converts and newbies to them.

Sidebar: B&M stores gives the consumer something the online vendors can't: the opportunity to touch & feel the products.

I feel a whole lot better in my decision to save up my $$'s to upgrading to an MVP, now that I've held one in my hand. And yes, the VTR is a monster handful, the i30 is way cooler in person, and some of those others really do look like they came from the s_x shops!

Observations that can only come from the in-person experience of B&M stores.

So now the Westside of Detroit now has the best of both worlds: a promising local store, and the power of online!

 

[OBDave]

Dear Lord I'm having math issues... sorry, that SHOULD have been per year, not per month. Ugh.

But those rates weren't just for my area (around here I've seen storefront rentals for about $8-$10/year/square foot) those were national figures. Manhattan's a lot pricier than my hometown, lol.

Ah, gotcha - even $700/year/sf sounds pretty crazy to me, but I guess if that's the highest rate in the nation it's entirely possible there are some places in New York that might be able to pay that.

Also not used to the annual rates - our family business has a property management component, and we usually calculate rent monthly, even if we lease our commercial and industrial space yearly...still, my larger point stands that it's totally reasonable to expect to pay more for the convenience of a local shop, but it's entirely asinine to volunteer to get ripped off.

 

[spookyluke]

Wow. I had no idea But looking at the smoking rates it seems you still have a rate similar to ours (about 20%). I am confused why governments, including the US, think that raising the price to such an obscene level is useful.

I was paying just over $7 a pack. Your dollars are about the same exchange for ours so... wow... I will never complain about Utah and it's smoking/vaping laws again. Do they even let you vape there???

Sorry I'm not trying to be dense or nosy, I'm just curious.

We can vape. But it's illegal to sell e-liquid containing nicotine. I have to import my liquids.

 

[Nataani]

I have to agree with the fact that B&Ms price gouge to an extent. The price of kanthal is one thing that really bugs me.

That said, there are some B&Ms that are simply awesome. We have a store here in the suburbs of chicago called Quick Nic which makes their own juice, on premises, in a clean room. Prices are more than reasonable.

There is something about going into a vape store, placing an order, and having your juice made for you right there and then. I was concerned about the fact that it isnt steeped, but have yet to have any issues with any of it. Fantastic juice for the most part.

 

[Bramble]

We can vape. But it's illegal to sell e-liquid containing nicotine. I have to import my liquids.

Utah would have it this way too, if they could. But we border on other states that aren't as restrictive as we are. If it got worse here, I could drive 2 hours north or east to buy my supplies. If they succeed in banning online sales, I'll have it shipped to a friend in a neighboring state. See... I'm worse than the teenagers, they can't keep me from getting nicotine and alcohol

I guess before I ever move to Australia (I always wanted to!)... I will need to learn how to make my own eJuice.

 

[PDX_PuterGeek]

So we're getting some B&Ms around town. While I'd LOVE to give them my business, two are charging $1 per ml on juice and HUGE markups on hardware. One quoted $30 for a PT2 (clone) and another wanted $60 for a 1100mah eGo twist starter kit... While I'm understanding that they may not have the best deals around but c'mon. It's like they think we don't have the ability to price compare.

 

[Koudotai]

I'm not trying to defend anyone, just providing food for thought. A B&M has a lot more overhead than someone operating an e-cig store out of their basement.

^^This^^. I agree with what you're saying OP. Anything I find online usually goes for around twice as much as any of my local B&M's with a few things here and there competitively priced to the online market. I try to support local businesses so long as it doesn't burn a hole in my wallet. So I usually make my cheaper purchases at the shop and when I want new mods, or gear in general, then I hit the web.

 

[Strangebrew]

Now... if some of ya' reading all this AND operates a B&M; how about supplying something other than cheap junk to turn a quick profit!

 

[Myk]

Myk, you could be right about the newly quit smoker trying to help others. I think most vapor's do this! As far as the FDA regulations go...the local B&M owner's I've spoke with seem to think the new regs will help them tremendously, especially if they stop the online sales!

That's why I'm willing to pay around twice as much, especially for this place that promises rebuilding supplies. I don't need much so throwing a little extra for a mod or batteries here and there isn't that big of a deal.

The longer it goes without being banned and the more B&Ms open the better the odds are that they at least wouldn't shut down B&Ms.

 

[Myk]

Now... if some of ya' reading all this AND operates a B&M; how about supplying something other than cheap junk to turn a quick profit!

You really need a different B&M. No knock-offs/generic clones at my local. Some lesser brands but not junk.

 

[Pathogenius]

If WalMart sold the stuff we needed, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

Some of the products we need (like batteries) are not in high enough demand for them to bother, others (like nic) come with legal complications. At the end of the day however, supply/demand determines price, period.

The fact that we can pay $1 per ml for juice, or 10 cents, is primarily due to both consumer and vendor comprehension of the market reality. It's chaos.

One thing is certain. There will be equilibrium. In the mean time, we as consumers don't have Big Brother to hold our hand. For those that are finding this reality to be so very offensive to their own sensibilities, perhaps consider moving to China.

 

[Myk]

If WalMart sold the stuff we needed, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

Some of the products we need (like batteries) are not in high enough demand for them to bother, others (like nic) come with legal complications. At the end of the day however, supply/demand determines price, period.

The fact that we can pay $1 per ml for juice, or 10 cents, is primarily due to both consumer and vendor comprehension of the market reality. It's chaos.

One thing is certain. There will be equilibrium. In the mean time, we as consumers don't have Big Brother to hold our hand. For those that are finding this reality to be so very offensive to their own sensibilities, perhaps consider moving to China.

Then people would be crying about how Walmart is putting all the vape shops out of business and then dropping their vaping line.

I could double my prices and sell my most expensive DIY for 10¢/ml. I'd get rich. But I'd sure get richer undercutting everyone by $1/15ml.