Any inexpensive mods support single 21700 and decent TC?

[GeorgeS]

I am excited, thank you for your kindness and curiosity.
For all my tests I set the mods way over power, and I only give them a solid pass if they can cope with that. You are right for YiHi devices that results in temperature over-shoots because they only alter pulse width, not power input. Its so momentary the cotton never burns though.

I've been lead to believe that whatever joules setting is dialed in, that is that YiHi will use to pulse width modulate. Experience tells me that low mass builds like I use don't require much power. Early users reported the mods 'rattlesnaking' when overdriving their builds, simply lowering the joules may of been a work around for that.

Dicodes, the outcome is not so good as on the YiHis, and yes it performs better as a temperature ceiling limiter using more conservative power and just pulling back if you overheat, basically power mode with dry hit pritection, not a good true temperature controller on SS mode.

I would not describe it like that at all. I take 6-7 second draws on my builds and the vape on all my mods (various chipsets including Dicodes) is smooth. The temperature feels the same at the start as at the end of the draw so some form of temperature regulation has to be going on. The stream of air along with the juice vaporization would be cooling the coil so heat would need to be applied during the draw.

Simply hold the fire button on a Dicodes and it will ramp and overshoot the set temperature and then settle down to a value that will stay there as long as you hold the fire button. A quick glance at the screen you can see the wattage change to a mere 2W to sustain the coil temperature.

The low cost Eleaf, Wismec and others that can use the Artic Fox firmware seem to employ some sort of switching. The temperature will rise to the set point then drop by 3-5F before switching back on again and hitting 'temperature protection' again. Do the same hold the button down experiment shows that after the set point is reached the power is fluxuating from 2-5W until their 'puff timer' times out.

Many other modern mods have no problem with this arrangement, including some $50 ones (Aegis Solo, Smok Mag with corrected TCR). As you say, this ensures you get to temp quickly, but comes at a battery longevity cost.

While I don't know how important battery life is to other users, it is important to me. I like to match tank capacity to battery life so I end up servicing both at the same time. (refill juice and swap battery) The goal is to have both near empty at the same time.

Not sure if you have a chance to look at the full set of results for YiHi, DiCoDes, DNA and Aegis, but you may find some things of interest there.

I'm not sure how interesting they would be as for example I have a handful of mods that use the SX350J (6yrs old YiHi chipset) that work fine for my use as do the 1/2 dozen Dicodes mods I have but you for various reasons found faults with examples of both of their chipsets.

It would seem that a 'decent vape' could be more subjective then scientific after all.

I cant work out how to private message you here, do you use Reddit? Maybe PM me there, and Ill PM you my address back: AussieGeekVaper (u/AussieGeekVaper) - Reddit
Thanks again!

I see a 'popup' just happened that I have a 'conversation', I bet it is from you.

cheers,

g.

 

[AussieGeek]

You are correct regarding the YiHis and you can see that and the impact on temperatures in my test results for the G Class for example: imgur.com/a/os23png (make sure you look at all the charts, not just the top one). In my experience I can never "Feel" it on a YiHi, it feels smooth somehow, because of how incredibly fast it is I guess, and the cotton never burns, because the peaks are momentary. I can tell its hotter and covering a wider range of temps from the feel, and broader range of flavour too of course, compared to a very flat DNA result/experience, and some may prefer that. Actually the cheap VSticking VK530 performs almost identically for around 15% of the price.

If you skim through each of the tests for DiCoDes Dani 25, you will see what I mean. I suspect you are a vaper that fits into the fifth or sixth chart (high resistance, low to mid mass): imgur.com/a/89GNaPJ while it can produce a "somewhat" smooth outcome in those simple MTL type states, basically its a rollercoaster in most other states - unless you set the power so low that it doesnt have to do much actual temperature control and are prepare to wait for it to heat (this is what I call temperature limiter, with dry hit protection). Now comapred this to say Geekvape Aegis Solo, which is very DNA-like (not other Geekvapes by the way) in the same states:
imgur.com/a/Yem5bdF

Heres a DNA 75 set of the same tests, just for completeness: imgur.com/a/7Pe3Gad

You tell me which is smoother ; p
Like the YiHi, subjectively many may prefer the slightly more unstable result of the DiCodes temperature for flavour and warmth if they cant feel that instability (I certainly can feel it though, and dont enjoy it). Or maybe they arent looking for actual temperature control, just the temperature limiting/dry hit protection, and happy to use low power and slower heat time. Subjectively everyone is different, but we can only understand these differences through objective data and analysis.

This is only for SS of course, I am sure you have a better time as you say with resistherm or nifethal. I look forward to testing that other wire for the DiCoDes. Please note that all tests are properly wicked, with 3 states "Vaped dry" and 4 states vaped normally fully wetted. The experience on the rig and shown in the data absolutely relfects my subjective experience using the mods normally off the rig also.

 

[GeorgeS]

Ok, bad news. My order of Pico 21700's was canceled, it seems the vendor actually did not have any in stock.

Oh well, I still have the YiHi SXmini SL Class SX485J 100W Box Mod, Aegis Max and some Pico 18650's inbound. Any guesses on which is going to show up first?

I suppose that if the Aegis Max pans out I could just order more of those instead of having Pico 21700's.

We will see.

Insane vape product tax coming to my state in 2021. (YUCK!)


g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Ok, bad news. My order of Pico 21700's was canceled, it seems the vendor actually did not have any in stock.

Oh well, I still have the YiHi SXmini SL Class SX485J 100W Box Mod, Aegis Max and some Pico 18650's inbound. Any guesses on which is going to show up first?

I suppose that if the Aegis Max pans out I could just order more of those instead of having Pico 21700's.

We will see.

Insane vape product tax coming to my state in 2021. (YUCK!)


g.

Sourcemore (china) has the mod + an AVB 21700 battery for cheap at under $27 + $8 ship to USA. Black only and it's on pre-order (which merely means they are waiting for a restock). May take a while because of the preorder but for that price, for me, it's good.

The kit is in stock in brushed steel, grey and hot pink but no battery but it's $41 + ship.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Eleaf USA warehouse has the mod only (no battery) on sale for $22.49 after 25% discount with code FALL25. Shipping is about $8 but free for orders $50+.

Edited to add: Coupon expires in 13 hours

Eleaf iStick Pico 21700 Battery Mod

 

[gsmit1]

wismec predator..

The Predator had a known issue with the 510 connection as I recall.

Fascinating discussion.

 

[GeorgeS]

If you skim through each of the tests for DiCoDes Dani 25, you will see what I mean. I suspect you are a vaper that fits into the fifth or sixth chart (high resistance, low to mid mass)

Below you'll find just an average 24AWG NIFE build of 0.15ohms on a Kayfun v5 clone deck. Obviously my 26&28AWG coils have slightly higher resistance. There really is not much mass here to speak of.

While I'd figure/think that "high resistance" is something OVER 1 ohm, 0.15 is in the Nickel/Ni range and below 0.5 ohms I'd call "low" resistance. (with 0.5 to 1 ohm 'medium')

For something a bit more exotic here's an example of 28AWG Flat wire:

0.3 ohms (0.8x0.1mm wire size) gives you the coil coverage (surface area) of much much larger gage wire but with the mass of 28AWG.

Even when ordered from Germany, wire with decent TCR values is really inexpensive.

Zivipf.de

Going from room temperature to vaping temperatures, a NIFE coil will almost DOUBLE its resistance giving lots of granularity for the mod to work with in temperature regulation. (almost to over 4x the granularity of SS)
Nife30 from Ziviph has a TCR of 520! Giving about 5x the granularity of SS in TC builds.

While I'll likely never convince others to use good TCR wire to TC vape, I don't think anyone is going to convince me to use SS for anything any time soon.

Given the masses using crappy SS wire and crappy builds on equally crappy mods, I'm not surprised that TC vaping has not made many gains over the years.


g.

 

[GeorgeS]

Eleaf USA warehouse has the mod only (no battery) on sale for $22.49 after 25% discount with code FALL25. Shipping is about $8 but free for orders $50+.

Edited to add: Coupon expires in 13 hours

Eleaf iStick Pico 21700 Battery Mod

Thanks for that!

I ordered 5 direct from Eleaf.

thanks again,

g.

 

[HigherStateD]

Given the masses using crappy SS wire and crappy builds on equally crappy mods, I'm not surprised that TC vaping has not made many gains over the years.


g.

I use some crappy wire, in exceedingly crappy builds, on some crappy mods, and get some decent results. So decent, I've got a DNA mod on order, and am looking into trying NiFe, but not in a huge rush on that.

 

[GeorgeS]

I use some crappy wire, in exceedingly crappy builds, on some crappy mods, and get some decent results. So decent, I've got a DNA mod on order, and am looking into trying NiFe, but not in a huge rush on that.

It can't be all that crappy if your getting decent results can it?

I see my likely crappy (its a YiHi after all) SXMini SL should be arriving today. I'll have something new to play with this afternoon/evening.


g.

 

[Mordacai]

Hey, the SL Class is a decent mod.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

It can't be all that crappy if your getting decent results can it?

I see my likely crappy (its a YiHi after all) SXMini SL should be arriving today. I'll have something new to play with this afternoon/evening.


g.

Yihi, huh? Let me tell you something you may already know. If you're ever going to set that mod aside for more than a couple days, do yourself a favor and take the battery out of it. The resting voltage drain might possibly just make your battery vent. Ask me how I know. I'm sure not all Yihi PCBs have this issue, but I wouldn't chance it.

 

[GeorgeS]

Yihi, huh? Let me tell you something you may already know. If you're ever going to set that mod aside for more than a couple days, do yourself a favor and take the battery out of it. The resting voltage drain might possibly just make your battery vent. Ask me how I know. I'm sure not all Yihi PCBs have this issue, but I wouldn't chance it.

I have two different SXMini dual 18650 mods that killed the batteries when left in them. (no, they did not vent but they were less than 3.0V) Now they sit battery less.

Mail here shows up between 2-4PM. I bet I'll have it up and running in less than 5min.


g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

@GeorgeS

I placed an order with eleaf about a half an hour after you said you place your order but I didn't get a confirmation email.

But I just got an email saying it shipped. Daaaaamn. That was unexpected.

 

[GeorgeS]

@GeorgeS

I placed an order with eleaf about a half an hour after you said you place your order but I didn't get a confirmation email.

But I just got an email saying it shipped. Daaaaamn. That was unexpected.

Mine has shipped as well.

Outside of the buttons on the bottom, I like the Picos. While not a bad mod stock (you can store 3 different TCR values and lock the resistance) they can run Artic Fox firmware that give you TFR 'profiles' as well as a bunch of other features.

The 21700 model will fit a 25MM tank without overhang (not sure on the 18650 model). I also like that they are not cheap plastic. (I bought the silver one)

Considering a price of only $29.99 they are a decent very inexpensive mod.

g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Considering a price of only $29.99 they are a decent very inexpensive mod.

You did use the 25% off coupon to get them for 22.49, didn't you?

The 21700 model will fit a 25MM tank without overhang (not sure on the 18650 model)

Well that depends on which one.

Neither the original 18650 Pico 75W nor the Pico Mega (26650 mod) take anything over 22mm at all because the battery cap gets in the way But you can get around this by using a 22mm 510 heat sink that raises the tank over the battery cap, as long as you don't mind the the look of it lol

The 18650 Pico 25 on the other hand does take 25mm atties and it's basically just a Pico 75W that goes up to 85W, but also has a half plastic body. Barely bigger than the Pico 75W

I don't mind the bottom buttons too much as I rarely use them anyhow.

 

[GeorgeS]

While off topic for this thread, my SL arrived!

in all fairness, it took me 10-15min to set it up and I did have to grab the manual.
The color screen is a nice touch. It feels good in the hand. There is no way to lock the resistance of the coil. (maybe it is not needed) It just reads it when you attach the atomizer. I ended up setting it for 380F (once I figured out how to change the units) as it seems the vape is warm to me.

Back on topic - the Eleaf Picos arrived as well! (I'll have something to play with tomorrow!) I opted for free shipping - did Eleaf overnight them to me or something? (I'm not complaining)

Fun days ahead!

g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Back on topic - the Eleaf Picos arrived as well! (I'll have something to play with tomorrow!) I opted for free shipping - did Eleaf overnight them to me or something? (I'm not complaining)

Huh? You mean the Pico 21700s you just ordered today, literally hours ago?

 

[GeorgeS]

Huh? You mean the Pico 21700s you just ordered today, literally hours ago?

Excuse me, it was the Pico 18650's the showed up today (ordered on the 5th).

g.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Excuse me, it was the Pico 18650's the showed up today (ordered on the 5th).

g.

LOL.