FDA Any other News on Today's Court Arguments?

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I believe what the Judge is asking is if it Is an Issue Now, then shouldn't it be Decided Now? Verses after a Company has spend Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars to do a PMTA.

And if 0mg are Not under the Congressional Granted Authority of FDA, then a company doesn't need to do a PMTA in the 1st Place. So shouldn't the Court Rule on this Today verses in 2018?

I am glad she is questioning this as this whole issue lacks good old common sense. The stuffed suits which are the FDA have to be feeling a little full of hot air by now. Hopefully, this is a first in the series of questions we have all had since this all began. Once the zero nicotine gets settled then how can it be assumed that the gear that is used is indeed a tobacco product? We all know what happens when something is assumed.......

 

[johnny hotsauce]

I am glad she is questioning this as this whole issue lacks good old common sense. The stuffed suits which are the FDA have to be feeling a little full of hot air by now. Hopefully, this is a first in the series of questions we have all had since this all began. Once the zero nicotine gets settled then how can it be assumed that the gear that is used is indeed a tobacco product? We all know what happens when something is assumed.......

Which is why it's wise to argue the zero nic now and then defend the hardware after if we win the zero nic portion.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Which is why it's wise to argue the zero nic now and then defend the hardware after if we win the zero nic portion.

Yes, that is my line of thinking, tho if zero nic wins(please,please,please) then the rest is almost a given(but is why I put in the assumption part cause ya never know). But it would at least strengthen our position in this travesty.

I mean when your own government tells you to lie, then I have to wonder what else is being lied about.

 

[dobroeutro]

I mean when your own government tells you to lie, then I have to wonder what else is being lied about.

That's an easy one, everything...

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

That's an easy one, everything...

So sad because that is probably the truest statement yet. Me thinks the stuffed suits are in need of some adult supervision.

 

[sonicdsl]

So sad because that is probably the truest statement yet. Me thinks the stuffed suits are in need of some adult supervision.

Right; who watches the watchers?

 

[zoiDman]

Right; who watches the watchers?

This Senate Oversight Committee is supposed to.

Home | Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee

But they seem to be as effective as a Blind Mole in a Pillow Fight when it comes to the FDA and Deeming.

 

[retired1]

But they seem to be as effective as a Blind Mole in a Pillow Fight when it comes to the FDA and Deeming.

We've known from the start that the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee does not have the ability to do anything concrete as far as reversing the deeming regulations. All they can do is haul the appropriate parties in and grill them. Considering the FDAs response (or lack thereof) to the queries submitted by the committee, they know full well that the committee has absolutely no enforcement ability.

It will take a full session of Congress in order to make any real change. Considering the ineffectiveness of that institution over the past few years, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to do anything positive.

 

[Endor]

It will take a full session of Congress in order to make any real change. Considering the ineffectiveness of that institution over the past few years, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to do anything positive.

Well put, and very true.

We're hearing nothing but crickets from Congress on this issue. I'm guessing that part of that is the result of this being an election year, and especially this one... both parties being afraid of losing seats due to the clown act that is the Presidential election. My guess is that no member of Congress wants to rock the boat right now, and particularly on vaping, which appears to have become quite a partisan issue.

 

[440BB]

Imagine a time...
when there are no sin taxes, lobbying is banned and campaign donations are severely limited.

 

[zoiDman]

We've known from the start that the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee does not have the ability to do anything concrete as far as reversing the deeming regulations. All they can do is haul the appropriate parties in and grill them. Considering the FDAs response (or lack thereof) to the queries submitted by the committee, they know full well that the committee has absolutely no enforcement ability.

It will take a full session of Congress in order to make any real change. Considering the ineffectiveness of that institution over the past few years, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to do anything positive.

I don't think Many/Most People understand what the Role of this Oversight Committee is effecting a Change when a Change is Warranted.

The Oversight Committee's Role is Not to Change the FDA. Or any other Government Agency. Their Role is to make the case before Congress and the President that an Agency has Overstepped their Authority or is Negligent in the Authority that has been granted to them.

How, exactly, do we expect Congress to Change the FDA or the Deeming Rule Set when no Evidence of Oversight or Neglect has been made?

An Oversight Committee's Power lies in it's Ability to Subpoena Government Documents and Witnesses in an attempt to ascertain what Exactly an Agency is and Isn't doing. And to have these Documents and Witness's Testimony become part of the Public Record.

 

[Lessifer]

I don't think Many/Most People understand what the Role of this Oversight Committee is effecting a Change when a Change is Warranted.

The Oversight Committee's Role is Not to Change the FDA. Or any other Government Agency. Their Role is to make the case before Congress and the President that an Agency has Overstepped their Authority or is Negligent in the Authority that has been granted to them.

How, exactly, do we expect Congress to Change the FDA or the Deeming Rule Set when no Evidence of Oversight or Neglect has been made?

An Oversight Committee's Power lies in it's Ability to Subpoena Government Documents and Witnesses in an attempt to ascertain what Exactly an Agency is and Isn't doing. And to have these Documents and Witness's Testimony become part of the Public Record.

If only they'd do their jobs...

 

[zoiDman]

If only they'd do their jobs...

In a More Perfect World, we wouldn't even need to have something like an Oversight Committee. And for someone like the FDA, Science would be the Immutable Foundation of a Public Health Policy.

But we Don't live in that world.

And as long as an Agency, Department or even the POTUS can get away with Overreach without any Repercussions, it will Only Get Worse.

 

[Truthdog]

In a More Perfect World, we wouldn't even need to have something like an Oversight Committee. And for someone like the FDA, Science would be the Immutable Foundation of a Public Health Policy.

But we Don't live in that world.

And as long as an Agency, Department or even the POTUS can get away with Overreach without any Repercussions, it will Only Get Worse.

I'd say it differently. "As long as the public believes advocating to their government is not part of their civic duty, things will only get worse."

The sole reason we are in this predicament is that more people believe the PHealth myth that vaping is a Big Tobacco ploy to get our kids hooked, than believe that vaping is a viable harm reduction alternative. As long as politicians get press and voter approval for being tough on vapor products they will continue to do it.

Bottom line: If they don't hear from us, it will not change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lessifer]

If the oversight committee only investigates if enough people raise a fuss, that's not oversight, it's pandering.

 

[zoiDman]

If the oversight committee only investigates if enough people raise a fuss, that's not oversight, it's pandering.

Very True.

And Abuse of a Congressionally Granted Authority by a Federal Agency is still an Abuse even if it Only effects a Small Percentage of the General Population.

 

[DC2]

I'd say it differently. "As long as the public believes advocating to their government is not part of their civic duty, things will only get worse."

And every time a vaper says that they don't bother to educate...
Or they don't bother to contact their representatives because it doesn't do any good...

Another nail in the coffin.

 

[zoiDman]

And every time a vaper says that they don't bother to educate...
Or they don't bother to contact their representatives because it doesn't do any good...

Another nail in the coffin.

That goes for Retailers and OEM's also.

Some would say More So.

 

[Ipster]

That goes for Retailers and OEM's also.

Some would say More So.

And sadly it goes further too. I watch the overall government news, updates, calls to action, comments, etc.
IMHO, peeps get emotional (angry, upset) and it leads to off topic discussions, conspiracies, posts. This isnt a criticism I do believe there are the appropriate places here on ECF for those discussions. I'd rather see FIRST the necessary time
from the upset & angry directed at contacting the appropriate representatives, writing the advocacy groups, focusing on
positive action.
Along these lines, I could also use some help/advice.
I regularly google the lawsuits- looking for updates.They become more scarce harder to find
(hit &miss) post July'16.
Am I correct in presuming the good folks here are watching the judiciary public access websites for the individual suits?
Best to all, have a great weekend, and USA peeps-vote pro rights to vape.
Cheers.

 

[Verb]

Last week's replies to the judges questions are up.

Tobacco On Trial » Blog Archive » NICOPURE v FDA: SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM to Respond to the Court’s October 26, 2016 by FDA, Nov 1, 2016

Tobacco On Trial » Blog Archive » NICOPURE v FDA: SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM re Minute Order by AMERICAN E-LIQUID MANUFACTURING STANDARDS ASSOCIATION, et. al. Nov 1, 2016

Nicotine free eLiquid is not covered if you walk the tight rope. Free samples would be permitted since they are not covered. But, if you become successful, they will create the data set to show your product is expected to be mixed with nicotine and crush you. Absolutely no mention of their earlier stated reasoning: a hardware unit that may be used to vaporize a nicotine containing liquid is used to vaporize a nicotine free liquid; therefore, the nicotine free liquid that is used with the tobacco free tobacco product is now a tobacco product.