Anyone ever see a 26650 battery?

[emonty]

quasimod,

hahahahaha!! but really the AW LiFPO4 3V one's I have are rock solid, last for several hours with a solid output until the end! Besides that they are completely safe and having an extra pair is enough for a day.

 

[Wafflestomper]

quasimod,

hahahahaha!! but really the AW LiFPO4 3V one's I have are rock solid, last for several hours with a solid output until the end! Besides that they are completely safe and having an extra pair is enough for a day.

Are LiPO4's high drain? I thought the LiMn batteries were.

 

[emonty]

Are LiPO4's high drain? I thought the LiMn batteries were.

These are new generation R123 with safe chemistry that will not vent with flames ( explode ). The key to this safety feature is that no oxygen will be released from the oxide structure of the cell composition even under abused conditions. No oxygen means no pressure built up and fuel for combustion. Can be used in series on multi-cell applications.

Specifications :

Nominal Voltage : 3.2V
Capacity : 500mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.0V
Standard Charge : CC 250mA CV 3.6V
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Weight : 16.5g

These cells don't need protection and they behave just like NiMH batteries

 

[Wafflestomper]

The AW LiMn batteries only come in 3.7 I think, they are considered high drain, a little more output over a shorter time (hence being attystompers) and also considered safe tech. I believe these are a bit newer tech than LiPO4:

Specifications:
Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 550mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 1.5A )
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 8C

Wasn't sure if the PO4 was considered high drain, specifically.

I used to use LiPO4s on my 5v mod.

 

[emonty]

They rock & Roll my friend on 6V, the best there is!!!

 

[quasimod]

Waffle is right, the LiMn batteries are the ones people are referring to as "high drain". I've tried the 18650 LiMn batteries with LR atomizers, and they work pretty well.

I use the LiPo4's in my GGTS @ 6V, and they rock. Actually, they are too hot with a regular atty. I bought some HV attys and burned them out in a couple of days. I was having a lot of problems learning to keep attys alive @ 6V, then I tried an experiment. I thought, "maybe I'm frying them because I'm not paying close enough attention to what I'm doing". So, I started "tailpiping" exclusively with regular 510's. Yeah, it sucks at first, but your lips can feel when it gets too hot IMMEDIATELY, before your finger can feel any difference at all. Even if you are distracted with something else (like the forum, driving, etc.), you can't ignore the heat, since it gets uncomfortable in a hurry. You don't ever accidentally overheat the atomizer.

My experiment has been a success. I have not burned out one single atomizer in about a month. I also don't get grossed out with burnt tastes as much.

EDIT: The trick to getting a good vape and keeping the temp down, is to "tap" the button repeatedly. There is way too much power @ 6V for a regular 510, so learning how to give it repeated short bursts of power works pretty darn well. I can get long, big vapes that way, direct-inhaling for several seconds.

 

[imeothanasis]

Do they have the saying in Greece, "burning the candle from both ends"?

"The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long".

We dont have this expression here quas but you pic is exellent

 

[Wafflestomper]

My experiment has been a success. I have not burned out one single atomizer in about a month. I also don't get grossed out with burnt tastes as much.

I really like my LiMn 18650s for LR atties, gives it a little extra oomph, and have had good atty life.

I keep popping i7 and i6's even with non-high drain... but at some point, I had them under the high drain batteries, even for a bit.

Next round I may get a couple of the regular 18650s and try my last couple if i7s on my Big Storm and see what happens....Stormy also mentioned that she thought the high drain was probably the culprit.

EDIT: This will NOT preclude me from my mission of vaping 26650 batteries in my "GG-Kraken" however.... this is my life mission.

 

[quasimod]

We dont have this expression here quas /.../

Well, now you have it!

 

[Lisaf01]

Just one word of caution.
I would be very wary of using LR atties with LiMN batteries.
Not because of danger, we already know they don't vent with flame.

But, because as the charge in them drops, with an LR atty, you're always less likely to notice the vapour drop-off and you could damage your batteries by draining them too far before you realise. (normally the vapour drop-off on standard atties would warn you.)

So it's really protected batts all the way for LR atties in my opinion. AW LiMNs are too expensive to risk ruining.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Just one word of caution.
I would be very wary of using LR atties with LiMN batteries.
Not because of danger, we already know they don't vent with flame.

But, because as the charge in them drops, with an LR atty, you're always less likely to notice the vapour drop-off and you could damage your batteries by draining them too far before you realise. (normally the vapour drop-off on standard atties would warn you.)

So it's really protected batts all the way for LR atties in my opinion. AW LiMNs are too expensive to risk ruining.

I've noticed that. After practice, I've become really adept at noticing it. But I have yet to have an AW fail and I used (used to since I now stick to 6v) to use them almost exclusively.

Little ones get charged and rotated once a day (I have about 4 sets I rotate through) and the big ones get changed after about a day and a half (the mAh ratings are much lower than non LiMn.

My standard green ultrafires only give me about 5 hours of solid vaping... but they may be getting a bit long in the tooth.

I'm leary of LiPo4's though, had a really scary experience with them on another mod that had a short in either the switch or the atty. It was almost a Chernobly meltdown, fortunately I was quick enough to get a battery dump... but those suckers really acted like they wanted to vent (even if they aren't supposed to... but after that, I'm not sold on the promise).

Also, I try to never let them drain down completely. And they aren't SO expensive that I think the safety trade off isn't worth it... although I would still use Po4s without too much worry, at least on mods that I trust.

 

[Lisaf01]

You obviously notice, yes, but not everyone would, and I have to keep the newby in mind when I read recommendations and make them myself too. Many people just won't know when the vapour is tailing off due and overly discharge the battery.
I recommend protected li-ions only with LR atties, not LiFePOs or LiMNs.

LiFePOs and LiMNs will vent, just not explosively with flame like normal li-ions.

 

[Wafflestomper]

You obviously notice, yes, but not everyone would, and I have to keep the newby in mind when I read recommendations and make them myself too. Many people just won't know when the vapour is tailing off due and overly discharge the battery.
I recommend protected li-ions only with LR atties, not LiFePOs or LiMNs.

LiFePOs and LiMNs will vent, just not explosively with flame like normal li-ions.

Not trying to be difficult, but why explosively with flame better than venting? Is it related to the gas temperature? I thought these were supposed to vent rather slowly anyhow.... It was my understanding that LiMn was safer, but only marginally so than LiPo4s, or is the safety in you speak of with the LiIon the protection circuit?

The only problem I have with the protection circuit, is that those can fail.. sometimes catastrophically and sometimes they just make the battery useless.

Not trying to be difficult, I keep a pretty obsessive pulse on what my batteries are doing, but someone like my wife does not.... and a lot of mods out there DO only offer unprotected batteries (namely the 10440s)... which never sits well with me...

See, LiP04s kind of scare me, just because I had a bad experience. Protected circuit LiIon do not scare me, and LiMn batteries even less so, because like the Po4 they dont go into a cascading self destructive cycle but are (from what I thought) have a more stable chemistry.

Like I said, not trying to downplay what you said, I only understand what I've researched... and so much of it is up for debate... it gets confusing.

I've even had LiIon heat up on me... but never the LimN... but that has more to do with the fact that the opportunity never arose.

 

[emonty]

Just one word of caution.
I would be very wary of using LR atties with LiMN batteries.
Not because of danger, we already know they don't vent with flame.

But, because as the charge in them drops, with an LR atty, you're always less likely to notice the vapour drop-off and you could damage your batteries by draining them too far before you realise. (normally the vapour drop-off on standard atties would warn you.)

So it's really protected batts all the way for LR atties in my opinion. AW LiMNs are too expensive to risk ruining.

Very good point Lisa!!!

 

[Wafflestomper]

Very good point Lisa!!!

And point taken... I'd just like to see the research. Just seeing in too many places that LiMn's are safer or at least, equally safe emonty.


damn... Im in a FIGHTIN' mood tonight!

 

[Lisaf01]

Not trying to be difficult, but why explosively with flame better than venting?

I am confused, that's not what I said. Genuine LiFEPO4s and LiMNs will not explode/vent with flame.
If you are careful, that's fine, but for those who aren't they need to use genuine, protected batteries.
The issue comes when people go off and buy the cheapest thing they see, not caring what the hell it is, and then using low resistance atties, not noticing the vapour drop-off, and then boom. With luck it will just be them ruining their battery but it could be a lot worse and we as "expert users" must take care to help educate less knowledgeable users.

 

[Wafflestomper]

I am confused, that's not what I said. Genuine LiFEPO4s and LiMNs will not explode/vent with flame.
If you are careful, that's fine, but for those who aren't they need to use genuine, protected batteries.
The issue comes when people go off and buy the cheapest thing they see, not caring what the hell it is, and then using low resistance atties, not noticing the vapour drop-off, and then boom. With luck it will just be them ruining their battery but it could be a lot worse and we as "expert users" must take care to help educate less knowledgeable users.

I am still not sure I entirely agree that PCBs are the be all end all of safety.

Problem is I can't find the research I used when I made the switch to LiMn batteries. (Mind you I went from Protected LiIon to LiPO4 to LiMn with my thoughts SOLELY on protection).

LiIon is more unstable, no bones about it. Your safety mechanism is the PCB. And that is pretty much it. It's like the "Jesus Nut" on the rotors of a helicopter....if that fails, chemistry be damned... KABLOOEY.

Over at the Candlepower forums they have been debating this, and a lot of the opinions are "If I am wearing something on my head [headlamp] I don't want Li-Ion protected or unprotected."

I can't attest to LiPo4, because I've had them overheat as well but they just got hot, and never vented. This was due to a short in a switch...thankfully Imeo has circumvented that with the mechanical switch and fuses.....but this was a very isolated incident.

LiMn batteries are supposedly much more stable than the other two chemistries. When LiMn batteries are overdischarged it mostly just decreases cycle life.

The reason I pay more for the LiMn is safety. I think its basically a judgement call, and "pick your poison". But for safety, I'm keeping my wife away from LiIon as much as I can help it.

You know, I think I know a guy thats really proficient with this stuff, I'll see if I can get him to give me some links or post in this thread.

I am under the impression that LiMn is the safest...but I've been known to be wrong on most occasions...mostly when my wife is telling me something like "The mail is late and its your fault"


EDIT: I found this in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...attery-failure-boom-im-okay-7.html#post535357 , guy explains it well, but I still like to see data from sources:

"Dave Rickey" = AW is also the only producer of 3.7V LiMN cells (a safer chemistry that isn't vulnerable to thermal/pressure runaway), but they only have a few sizes (16340, 18500, 18650, and 26500). The downside is that they have about 25% less real capacity than Li-Ion, but unlike the LiFePO4 chemistry (the other safe cell type), they have the same voltage profile and can be charged and used in the same devices (LiFePO4 has a 3.2V base and 3.6V max voltage).

Probably more than you wanted to know. Frankly, 2-cell designs should probably be using LiFePO4 cells, since 6.4V is plenty for that purpose, and even if the only small-diameter LiMN cell is the 16340, it should probably be considered for a device you HOLD IN YOUR HAND 4 INCHES FROM YOUR FACE. Li-Ion batteries have something like 60% of the energy density of TNT, and even if they can't liberate that in a 5kms shockwave, it's an inherently unsafe situation.

 

[Lisaf01]

That is a good link, however is old and somewhat out of date in terms of what is on the market now and who produces it.

Have you ever checked out Welcome to Battery University ?

 

[emonty]

That is a good link, however is old and somewhat out of date in terms of what is on the market now and who produces it.

Have you ever checked out Welcome to Battery University ?

That is a good read, but also out dated, no LiFePo4 info.....
I go to the flashlightforums, those guys are way ahead...

 

[mwa102464]

Flashlight forums are the place for Batt info absolutely Emonty