Anyone know WHY ethyl maltol mutes?

[Hoggy]

Ok, I read ton of people saying that EM mutes flavor, and have experienced it myself as well. BUT.. I have never seen a single mention as to why it mutes flavors. What is the chemistry/physiology involved here?

Does anyone know why that is?
When I was new to mixing, I ended up buying a 4oz bottle of crystals on top of a 1oz bottle (still under half-way full, btw) I already had, because I liked the flavor so much. It wasn't till later that I learned about and experienced the muting effect.

I'd love to use EM in more mixes, but due to the muting effect, I usually end up avoiding it altogether these days. It has such a wonderful granulated sugar taste, to me.

Also, does anyone experience muting with sucralose?

 

[Vapefiend]

I don't use any sweeteners in my juice. EM always gave my juice a burnt sugar taste. I use flavors like vanilla etc for sweetening.

 

[gofishtx]

I haven't experienced any muting of flavors. I use it in very small amounts though to add just a touch of sweetness and dryness to the mix. I buy it already mixed as Cotton Candy

 

[PJReid]

Yes, it is chemistry. Ethyl maltol is a flavor enhancer, not a sweetener. It does bring out the sweetness in flavors that need to be enhanced. Ethyl maltol was discovered in the 1970s. It was originally isolated from larch tree bark and is produced through fermentation-organic synthesis. Ethyl maltol occurs naturally in cereal, bread crust, coffee, and cocoa. This substance is also used as a flavor enhancer because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. The compound has been employed as a flavor enhancer in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit-flavored drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines.

It reduces the flavor intensity in sharp flavors. It rounds off the flavors, and brings them out a bit. In other words, it reduces flavor intensity. So, it can have a muting effect on flavors that aren't sharp. I hope that helps a bit. It works well for me in some menthol mixes, which can be a little sharp, but at low %s of the mix - probably no more than .5 to 1% of the total.

 

[gofishtx]

Yes, it is chemistry. Ethyl maltol is a flavor enhancer, not a sweetener. It does bring out the sweetness in flavors that need to be enhanced. Ethyl maltol was discovered in the 1970s. It was originally isolated from larch tree bark and is produced through fermentation-organic synthesis. Ethyl maltol occurs naturally in cereal, bread crust, coffee, and cocoa. This substance is also used as a flavor enhancer because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. The compound has been employed as a flavor enhancer in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit-flavored drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines.

It reduces the flavor intensity in sharp flavors. It rounds off the flavors, and brings them out a bit. In other words, it reduces flavor intensity. So, it can have a muting effect on flavors that aren't sharp. I hope that helps a bit. It works well for me in some menthol mixes, which can be a little sharp, but at low %s of the mix - probably no more than .5 to 1% of the total.

I would like this post but I can't right now... but very informative....I'll like it later

 

[PJReid]

I would like this post but I can't right now... but very informative....I'll like it later

Thanks!

 

[Hoggy]

Yes, it is chemistry. Ethyl maltol is a flavor enhancer, not a sweetener. It does bring out the sweetness in flavors that need to be enhanced. Ethyl maltol was discovered in the 1970s. It was originally isolated from larch tree bark and is produced through fermentation-organic synthesis. Ethyl maltol occurs naturally in cereal, bread crust, coffee, and cocoa. This substance is also used as a flavor enhancer because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. The compound has been employed as a flavor enhancer in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit-flavored drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines.

It reduces the flavor intensity in sharp flavors. It rounds off the flavors, and brings them out a bit. In other words, it reduces flavor intensity. So, it can have a muting effect on flavors that aren't sharp. I hope that helps a bit. It works well for me in some menthol mixes, which can be a little sharp, but at low %s of the mix - probably no more than .5 to 1% of the total.

Thanks, that does help a bit. But there must be something more going on, as well. People have said that vaping something with it, presumably more than 1% I imagine (but not sure), that other tastes afterward also will be muted for a while.

So maybe it also coats the tongue and prevents other flavor molecules from attaching to the receptors??
But if that's the case, what makes EM so different from other flavors/compounds?

 

[PJReid]

Thanks, that does help a bit. But there must be something more going on, as well. People have said that vaping something with it, presumably more than 1% I imagine (but not sure), that other tastes afterward also will be muted for a while.

So maybe it also coats the tongue and prevents other flavor molecules from attaching to the receptors??
But if that's the case, what makes EM so different from other flavors/compounds?

All I know for certain is that it is chemistry and I don't think it has a tongue coating effect. I have read that after vaping liquids with very high EM-content, many experience a distinct loss of flavor in anything else you vape, for an hour or more. Around 8-10%, it gives off a distinct burned sugar/cotton candy flavor, but without the sweetness of real cotton candy. In small percentages, it enhances some flavors. I guess it is sort of like salt. A little enhances, a lot renders food inedible.

 

[gofishtx]

All I know for certain is that it is chemistry and I don't think it has a tongue coating effect. I have read that after vaping liquids with very high EM-content, many experience a distinct loss of flavor in anything else you vape, for an hour or more. Around 8-10%, it gives off a distinct burned sugar/cotton candy flavor, but without the sweetness of real cotton candy. In small percentages, it enhances some flavors. I guess it is sort of like salt. A little enhances, a lot renders food inedible.

PJReid Again, I want to like this but can't I miss our like button so consider yourself liked.

 

[tazzle]

@Katcandoo was looking for a diy recipe for a mix called "Malty Toffee" that called for a super high percentage of EM, so if they see this they might comment on the effects, if they've noticed any.

 

[rob33]

I have not noticed any muting of EM, but I don't have any long term juice. When using EM I measure 1 drop per 10ml

 

[dc99]

A lot of fruity flavors already contain EM. Take TFA strawberry ripe, if it already contains it and you add more your just over doing it. All flavors have a ceiling and once you pass that ceiling you start muting

 

[Hoggy]

All flavors have a ceiling and once you pass that ceiling you start muting

I think that is one thing that could be going on.. Yet OTOH, when one overdoes one flavor, they can usually taste others that haven't blown those receptors. But it's often reported to mute any other juices/flavoring tasted afterwards when it come to EM. I think I might even remember at least one instance where it was said to even mute the tastes of food/beverages as well, for a while afterward.

I say 'reported', because I usually don't add any these days because of that muting effect.. So I don't have any juice that currently has it - where it has been added by me. And therefore haven't tested it in while. ....... I'm also a bad one to really test it properly, since I seem to have constant struggle tasting things these days - after research, likely in large part due to many of my medications giving me nearly constant severe dry mouth.. On top of bad sinuses. Yay heredity!

(The only time I ever taste vapor is when exhaling through my nose - and kind of what I might call 'straining' to taste it. Even food and beverages tend to usually require this 'straining' to taste them. Sucks. Sure wish I was one of those 'super tasters'. )​

...And FINALLY we have our 'like' buttons back - with BONUS!

 

[gofishtx]

But now we have to decide how much we like it and why

 

[madstabber]

I use it on every mix because I only do one flavor all day everyday. I mix a RY4(double) TFA at 10-15% and I put EM crystals in to smooth out the flavor. I found it didn't have enough flavor intensity at lesser % and when I mix at my current % it's a bit much. When I was perfecting this juice I couldn't find a middle ground. It was either too much or not enough, so I decided to try EM crystals which was just what it needed. I dont think it muted the flavor, just smoothed it out is the best way I can describe it. The trick is a little goes a long way. I just eyeball it but it's just enough to cover the bottom of my 60ml bottle with a 1 crystal deep coating when spread out. Too much makes the flavor thick is the best way I can describe it, I don't like it. So I think the trick is to use just a little to sweeten the flavor and smooth out the rough edges at the same time. As a bonus it's a good way to tell when my juice is properly steeped. The crystals will be completely dissolved and then the juice is ready to go.

 

[Katcandoo]

@Katcandoo was looking for a diy recipe for a mix called "Malty Toffee" that called for a super high percentage of EM, so if they see this they might comment on the effects, if they've noticed any.

I wish I had an answer for this! I found an (unverified) clone recipe for BWB's Malty Toffee (which was my daily vape and went out of business). It called for 30% EM, along with several other flavors for the mix - butter cream and holy vanilla were some of them. This was my first foray into DIY. After a few 10 ml batches, and further Internet sleuthing, I discovered that there were only 2 flavors in the original recipe: English toffee and EM (the malty part). Hence the name Malty Toffee.

I always thought EM was a sweetener. ??? I never did try the 30% EM - it seemed excessive percentage-wise. I've been mixing my own clone for months at 10% English Toffee and 15% EM. It's a sharper toffee flavor, and i like it better!

Is EM a sweetener or a flavor enhancer? Does it become a muter at higher percentage? I have no idea.

But I'm pretty sure if I doubled the EM, the toffee flavor would be subdued.

From my limited experience, I can't tell if it's the EM flavor enhancement that takes the edge off of a flavor by sweetening it, or a physical effect of EM at higher percentages that mutes it.

 

[gofishtx]

I wish I had an answer for this! I found an (unverified) clone recipe for BWB's Malty Toffee (which was my daily vape and went out of business). It called for 30% EM, along with several other flavors for the mix - butter cream and holy vanilla were some of them. This was my first foray into DIY. After a few 10 ml batches, and further Internet sleuthing, I discovered that there were only 2 flavors in the original recipe: English toffee and EM (the malty part). Hence the name Malty Toffee.

I always thought EM was a sweetener. ??? I never did try the 30% EM - it seemed excessive percentage-wise. I've been mixing my own clone for months at 10% English Toffee and 15% EM. It's a sharper toffee flavor, and i like it better!

Is EM a sweetener or a flavor enhancer? Does it become a muter at higher percentage? I have no idea.

But I'm pretty sure if I doubled the EM, the toffee flavor would be subdued.

From my limited experience, I can't tell if it's the EM flavor enhancement that takes the edge off of a flavor by sweetening it, or a physical effect of EM at higher percentages that mutes it.

It may be both a sweetener and enhancer and it is also cotton candy so to me it adds a spun sugar smoothness at higher percentages and adds a dryness and mild sweetness to the flavors at lower percentages

 

[Hoggy]

From my limited experience, I can't tell if it's the EM flavor enhancement that takes the edge off of a flavor by sweetening it, or a physical effect of EM at higher percentages that mutes it.

First, WOW, 30%!?!? That's just crazy.

But I wonder that myself. I've seen it called a flavor that has a perception of sweetness, which is what I'm inclined to call it as well. So I wonder if it's modifier properties are due to it being a flavor, or if it's just a strange substance akin to salt (which I think works by increasing electrical 'conductivity' in the tongues receptors - like an electrolyte).

Truth be told, I just don't think enough research has been done on it to tell for sure - especially for vaping applications. So for now it remains a strange and mysterious substance to me.

 

[Opinionated]

I don't think its used for its sweetness properties since liquid stevia is used for years for actual sweet in e juices. (Its not hard on coils since you use so little - just a drop)..

I kind of avoid em so far since I'm also clueless as to why use it in the first place.. if I want to smooth out flavor I'd use smooth or magic mask or other such additive and for sweet I've been using liquid stevia extract..

 

[Opinionated]

Yes, it is chemistry. Ethyl maltol is a flavor enhancer, not a sweetener. It does bring out the sweetness in flavors that need to be enhanced. Ethyl maltol was discovered in the 1970s. It was originally isolated from larch tree bark and is produced through fermentation-organic synthesis. Ethyl maltol occurs naturally in cereal, bread crust, coffee, and cocoa. This substance is also used as a flavor enhancer because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. The compound has been employed as a flavor enhancer in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit-flavored drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines.

It reduces the flavor intensity in sharp flavors. It rounds off the flavors, and brings them out a bit. In other words, it reduces flavor intensity. So, it can have a muting effect on flavors that aren't sharp. I hope that helps a bit. It works well for me in some menthol mixes, which can be a little sharp, but at low %s of the mix - probably no more than .5 to 1% of the total.

Very informative. .. I'll remember that