Apexium INR18650 2600mAh (rated 25A continuous)

[Robin Becker]

If you need to rely on someone else to “take care of you”, sooner or later you may have to swallow some hard, displeasing facts. Be your own master and fully take responsibility for what you believe in is a good advice I can provide you.

I wanted just to express that Mooch refers to vapers and their safety on his tests, while HJK makes more general measurements. So I rather consider more Mooch results, If I am a vaper.

Frankly speaking, when I see the curve of the VTC5A HJK has published I have more the feeling, that his devices were not accurate enough, or he tested really bad, or old VTC5A (can happen).

 

[mimöschen]

DCIR means nothing in the end.
To discern the best cell for different vapingstyles the dischargegraphs and tempreadings are much more meaningful.

 

[dripster]

DCIR means nothing in the end.
To discern the best cell for different vapingstyles the dischargegraphs and tempreadings are much more meaningful.

To me, personally, to paint a clear enough picture you simply cannot ignore any part of the data in any way so that's why DCIR means everything in the end, as you can't study a river by taking out a bucket of water and staring at it on the shore, and, I believe Mooch perfectly understands the importance of that fact so IMO when it comes to testing something, and especially when it comes to interpreting the test results, this philosophy is what separates the boys from the men, not the impressiveness or the amount of time some certain amateur has wasted on doing it wrong. I see dozens upon dozens of people who have been vaping more than double the amount of time that I have, yet, despite this, they still know close to nothing about vaping because they simply lack the capability or willingness to learn from that experience. So when someone starts talking down on Mooch by saying HKJ has been doing this kind of stuff for longer, I'll gleefully point out the fact Mooch has been designing battery test setups and procedures for a frakking living. The temperature readings only become meaningful if the ambient temperature is kept invariable between individual test runs.

 

[Mooch]

DCIR means nothing in the end.
To discern the best cell for different vapingstyles the dischargegraphs and tempreadings are much more meaningful.

DC IR is one of the best ways to determine the initial voltage sag of a cell under load, important for mech users. The Wh spec gives you the performance over the entire discharge, important for regulated mod users. Both are critical for selecting the best performer.

Temp reading are critical for safety and cycle life though.

 

[mimöschen]

DCIR is only meaningful in company with all other data and only when comparing similar cells.
On it's own it means essentially nothing to a vaper. Granted, it's nice to know how hard a cell hits, but without knowing how long it hits that hard, this knowledge is useless.
This I can read off the dischargegraph directly though, without even bothering about DCIR in the first place.

 

[Mooch]

DCIR is only meaningful in company with all other data and only when comparing similar cells.
On it's own it means essentially nothing to a vaper. Granted, it's nice to know how hard a cell hits, but without knowing how long it hits that hard, this knowledge is useless.
This I can read off the dischargegraph directly though, without even bothering about DCIR in the first place.

I disagree. Many vapers only want to know how hard it hits initially as they are in a competition or will be changing their batteries every 10-20 hits...really. The run time doesn’t matter to them, they only care about how hard it hits.

This may not be the way you vape but that does not mean no one vapes that way.

You certainly can get a decent idea of the DC IR from looking at the discharge graph but that doesn’t negate the utility of having the DC IR number itself already measured and available.

But I fully understand and respect your viewpoint. There are so many different types of vapers, each with their own wants and needs regarding battery info. Luckily the data the testers provide can be cherry picked for the info each vaper needs and the rest of the info ignored.

 

[papergoblin]

DCIR is only meaningful in company with all other data and only when comparing similar cells.
On it's own it means essentially nothing to a vaper. Granted, it's nice to know how hard a cell hits, but without knowing how long it hits that hard, this knowledge is useless.
This I can read off the dischargegraph directly though, without even bothering about DCIR in the first place.

I personally feel the more info given the better, especially as a mech user who used to do competitions.

I also think you are being a little emotional about this. I had never heard of the HJK but I have heard of, read and watched Mooch. I trust what he does, I have for a long time. I get why someone would ask if he has reviewed/tested something.

It's not anything against HJK, they just may be like me and not know. If you had came back and just stated that HJK has done this or that, check out his work, people would be more open to looking. Then you would have educated people to another resource for factual info. Sometimes in vaping there is way more made up info than real, especially with batteries.

Personally what you have done is put a dent in HJK's rep due to you now tying his name into the slamming of Mooch. May be you didn't meant it that way but it sounded like it to me and I'm sure many others.

@Mooch is like the pink bunny, he just keeps going and going, beating the battery drum of truth, lol.

 

[mimöschen]

I disagree. Many vapers only want to know how hard it hits initially as they are in a competition or will be changing their batteries every 10-20 hits...really. The run time doesn’t matter to them, they only care about how hard it hits.

This may not be the way you vape but that does not mean no one vapes that way.

You certainly can get a decent idea of the DC IR from looking at the discharge graph but that doesn’t negate the utility of having the DC IR number itself already measured and available.

But I fully understand and respect your viewpoint. There are so many different types of vapers, each with their own wants and needs regarding battery info. Luckily the data the testers provide can be cherry picked for the info each vaper needs and the rest of the info ignored.

You're talking about a minority here.
DCIR is an nice bonus for sure, but on the other hand every educated competitionvaper can get his needed info directly from the charts, as initial voltagesag is visible at first glance.

I also think you are being a little emotional about this.

I'm not your girlfriend/wife. So you most probably know a f**k about my emotional state, buddy.
Using killer arguments like that however, is something that may trigger unwanted emotions.

 

[Mooch]

You're talking about a minority here.
DCIR is an nice bonus for sure, but on the other hand every educated competitionvaper can get his needed info directly from the charts, as initial voltagesag is visible at first glance.

My testing is not just for the majority though.

There’s no downside to including extra data. You can ignore it or use it. It’s there as an option. Beyond the comp vapers, many would prefer just to compare already available IR numbers rather than derive them from the graphs of all the batteries they are interested in.

But the graphs are available for those who aren’t interested in the available numbers and want to derive the needed info from the graphs.

 

[Robin Becker]

DCIR is only meaningful in company with all other data and only when comparing similar cells.
On it's own it means essentially nothing to a vaper. Granted, it's nice to know how hard a cell hits, but without knowing how long it hits that hard, this knowledge is useless.
This I can read off the dischargegraph directly though, without even bothering about DCIR in the first place.

I tend to agree with you on some of arguments, but also disagree with you on others.
Yes the DCIR is not everyones darling and many would not understand the relation between Performance, Voltage drop, Capacity, CDR and DCIR, but...on the other hand, lots of people out there would not understand (or care), when they get an 18650 battery which states 3500 mAh and 40A CDR, that it is completly nonesense!
DCIR can quantify something that happens to the battery, when you withdraw Energy out of it, so a customer can compare 2 or more batteries with similar characteristics with another important key indicator.
So if you for example compare similar batteries like LG HE2, HE4, Samsung 25R and Sony VTC5 you are able to see small differences nevertheless.

 

[mimöschen]

I tend to agree with you on some of arguments, but also disagree with you on others.
Yes the DCIR is not everyones darling and many would not understand the relation between Performance, Voltage drop, Capacity, CDR and DCIR, but...on the other hand, lots of people out there would not understand (or care), when they get an 18650 battery which states 3500 mAh and 40A CDR, that it is completly nonesense!
DCIR can quantify something that happens to the battery, when you withdraw Energy out of it, so a customer can compare 2 or more batteries with similar characteristics with another important key indicator.
So if you for example compare similar batteries like LG HE2, HE4, Samsung 25R and Sony VTC5 you are able to see small differences nevertheless.

The "uneducated people" out there that don't know about amps and mah tend to know even less about DCIR.

Sure, the differences in your mentioned cells are mostly due to the IR, but you still can see them by looking at the charts alone, without any knowledge of the IR.

 

[Robin Becker]

MIMÖSCHEN - agree...what I like at Mooch and this is something I haven´t seen so far at other websites of "testers", is that he is taking a position and is willing to give a concrete evaluation, if a battery is good, or bad.
I guess, that at his position you must be aware, that what you write must be understanded by the normal consumer. If you start to make things complicated, people would just ignore you.

 

[mimöschen]

I'm not THAT fat, buddy

Nothing against that.
It just seems odd to me that someone who should know the basics by now, isn't able to draw his own conclusions.

 

[Robin Becker]

MIMÖSCHEN
This thread I found at the Mountain Prophet Forum:
Wenn Dummheit keine Grenzen kennt... - Mountainprophet

 

[mimöschen]

Oh. Well. I'm not supposed to recharge non-rechargeable batteries? REALLY? Good to know!
Yeah, I obviously ask for too much when talking to members of a species, that includes individuals that swallow washing powder for a youtubevideo.

 

[CapoCochise777]

That battery looks like Molicell.
Molicell's battery cycle life is close to 1000 times.

That is CORRECT. Amy from Apexium shared that in an email with me. She sent me 4 batteries on Monday[10.1.2018]I will try to share the info without presenting the entire email.

Q: I wonder who is the OEM making these?
Hongkong Apexium technology Co.Ltd is the first company use Molicll INR 18650 P26Ah Lithium-ion battery( which Taiwan manufacture established in 1998 ). Moli Energy Corp does not sell the original cell to un-authorized wholesaler or retailer, and they hope battery supplier OEM a brand from the original Molicel.


Apexium use double PVC on wrapper to ensure double safety, following market researching feedback with modern design, write professional and simple specification for easier understanding of the discharge current and battery warning.

 

[Robin Becker]

So why do they print FCC (Federal Communications Commission) on their batteries? This certification is not relevant for batteries at all!!!

 

[Barkuti]

So why do they print FCC (Federal Communications Commission) on their batteries? This certification is not relevant for batteries at all!!!

 

[Robin Becker]

Next step will be to put on the batteries things like "Fair-Trade", or some Environmental certification...why not? I saw this FCC on many other Chinese "Brands"...it is funny to see, how they copy from eachother...

 

[CapoCochise777]

It is annoying. I may re wrap mine.

What is more surprising to me is you guys are more focused on the writing than what cell it is!!

I could be wrong but I do not think it was verified before, just an educated guess.