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are my 18650s dead? USB DNA charing overnight shows 0.00Amps charing.

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by vapesmooth123, Jan 26, 2018.

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  1. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    I've had the same three LG H2 3000mAh 18650s in a DNA200 Wismic Reuleaux since I got it in July 2016, so about 17 months!

    FYI, I rotated them only once but that was after about a year of purposely not rotating them because I wanted to test their voltages to make sure the DNA board was indeed perfectly balance charging them for safety = I tested with a ~$500 analog meter and a cheap digital meter and they were all the same voltages.
    (what helps make it sort of unnecessary to rotate them though is that I don't vape at high wattage, I do like .12 coils at 55-65 watts. I heard if you vape high wattage, the "first" battery may take the brunt of the force and need rotating, otherwise you may end up with unbalanced, unsafe difference in voltages).
    anyway, just wanted to note that when it works, the DNA is really good at balance charging, possibly better than the "safest" external chargers like Xtar and nitecore, both of which I've had problems with!

    I definitely noticed the past month or so it doesn't hold a charge for long at all.
    I charged it overnight last night and noticed today it says only %14 battery life instead of %100 and the Amps being supplied by the USB wall adapter is showing 0.00Amps which is something I set in escribe to show on the main screen while charging. The DNA200 board can charge a 1.00A with a 1A+ wall adapter, so usually it'll say around 0.90A when the battery % is as low as %14, and then it tapers down to a lower Amps being supplied as the battery fills up.


    I tried multiple adapters and usb cords and wall outlets and car chargers, all which work with cell phone but show 0.00A being fed to charge the MOD. I took all the batteries out to clean and it was already clean.



    I connect to escibe and it finds the mod as DNA200, so the USB isn't totally fried, but maybe just the charging circuit.

    I successfully did charge these three cells in an external and then put in MOD and it says %100 and have been vaping it for hours no problem except it still shows like %85 but 0.00A.

    I have escribe set to charge them to only 4.1 instead of 4.2 which the external does.

    I have two brand new fully charged (used an external) VTC6s for a dual 18650 DNA250 MOD that's arriving any day now and also a new fully charged LG H2 for a single 18650 DNA75 arriving any day now. Would it be a terrible idea to put these miss match cells in the MOD to check for charging? I can wait though because I just ordered three new Samsung 30Q 18650s just to test this MOD. When I get those Samsung 30Q, should I fully charge them first in an external or just put them in the MOD and USB charge check?



    So if all fails, then I guess the charging part of the chip fried. Is it safe to still use it if I use an external charger?

    What do you think caused this? Just bad luck, or was it caused by the batteries being used for 17 months? I figured I can just keep using them as long as they charged somewhat even if the charge doesn't hold for long. Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Arizona
    Did you try a different power supply (wall adapter)?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    yes but same thing, but my phone charges as it should.
     
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  4. AzPlumber

    AzPlumber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2011
    Arizona
    If the power supply and cable are good the other options are not good news. Could be the charging circuit in the mod or bad battery(s). I doubt all batteries went out at the same time but suspect the charger won't charge any of the batteries if one is bad. On that same train of thought, a bad connection on one battery may create the same issue.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    The USB port may have broken.

    Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk
     
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  6. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    edit. put in first post to simplify
     
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  7. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Xtar is a good charger manufacturer. I have the Xtar VC4 and it shows actual voltage levels as it charges. IMO, charging batteries outside the mod using a charger is the best way. You run the risk of bricking a mod by constantly using its internal charging circuit on a regular basis. I infrequently charge using the mod's USB port, but only when I get stuck away from home and need to keep vaping.

    For a three cell mod I'd want a 4 bay charger that can charge all bays at once at 1A. Efest LUC 4 is a good choice. My LUC 4 has been reliable for years.
     
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  8. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Well, 17 months is a long time for one set of batteries, especially if you have been charging them via USB charge, which, if a mod is not designed for that, I find myself a bit skeptical of "DNA balanced charging claims," but if they have ALL been charged at the same rate and time, they could all die off to that point at once, or if your DNA mod can't charge one, it may decide to "balance, not charge" them all.

    I think given what the mod's been through already, you'd be better off trying fresh, married batteries honestly, not a frankensetup of what you have laying around. If the circuitry is bombed, that just might set you up for an unfortunate situation. If you are trying to externally charge your batteries and failing that does sound like the batteries to me. With that said, the battery "death" could have occurred via a fault that developed in the mod from all that USB charging. Equally possible that your USB port has died. Equally possible that you just need fresh batteries.

    I don't know why you feel that USB charging is somehow easier on a mod. It's not, in two areas (you really don't know if you were getting balanced charging) and you are stressing your USB port. IDK why you'd find it easier to USB charge vs swapping out batteries and giving them a time to rest.

    With that said, they are elderly batteries, depending on how heavy your usage it might simply be that. Mod makers don't recommend USB charging for a reason. It's good for batteries to be swapped out, have a resting time, and etc. So you may have shortened your battery life, not by unbalance, but by using all day and then charging all night.

    Let us know how it turns out, I will be sure to not purchase your mod if you do fix/sell it because well, I don't really like USB charging for non internal mods, and this is one reason why. I'd bet that if a set of batteries failed on you and you used a removable charger, you'd be a bit closer to diagnosis (elderly, overworked batteries that aren't able to hold charge any longer. Now you are in a situation and having to try and figure out many variables at once.

    I wish you the best of luck, though :)

    Anna
     
  9. Ralph_K

    Ralph_K Senior Member

    Jan 1, 2018
    I think usb charging depends. The usb chargers for phones are higher amps but if you were to charge through a computer it would be only 500mA for usb2 and 900mA for usb3. I have a 6 port usb hub that is 6A. That is 1A for each port. Its too slow and better to have a charger and a second set of batteries. I only use usb charging if batteries are only partially drained and only overnight
     
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  10. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    edit. put in first post to simplify

     
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  11. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Well, with all that being the case, I'd say it's more likely that your batteries are toast, like I noted at the very beginning of my post.

    I've had a nitecore intellecharger two bay for some time and it gets plenty of usage. I was merely pointing out that in-mod charging does raise a host of other issues, as it seems like you are encountering.

    But, if the chipmaker says it's safe, then by all means replace your batteries and see how they do. It's your equipment so do what best suits you. If you try new batteries and your circuit board is fried, well, you won't know the exact cause, including possibly trying to vape those batteries far past where they should have been vaped trying to isolate a "problem" of old batteries. I know I would have probably concluded that far sooner in your shoes had I been consistently using an external charger, as when they won't hold a charge, there is less guesswork involved.

    Also, I'd say get some backups, that way you won't be trying to vape a mod off a computer off dead batteries for longer than necessary, batteries keep a fair amount of time when stored correctly and are fairly inexpensive. I don't know what the mod-maker has to say about trying to use "spent" batteries or overstressed cells but I think the general practice is that if your batteries won't hold a charge, you shouldn't try to vape with them, regardless of what caused it. For one, they could explode, vaping via passthrough you are basically vaping off the cord, and etc.

    I'm not disputing any of what you are saying, really, "dead" batteries would have been my diagnosis probably from the get go. You started out with "17 months." That's pretty old. I'm merely stating that this "USB" charger thing seemed to have "you" questioning what had failed, not me, and the only reason I questioned it is because you asked all about USB charging, non-married batteries, and etc. These are fairly basic questions, so if you have all this knowledge, well... .???

    Not trying to be mean here, but it was you offering up the "MOD" as being dead as an option. Sounds like it isn't, unless you've vaped those "dropping off batteries" for a MONTH way too far.

    Anna

    Anna
     
  12. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    I remember this being discussed before and I think they said if you passthrough, it's not 'vaping off the cord", it's charging the batteries and vaping off of those. Unless it's a battery-less passthrough eGo shown below from years ago. Someone will correct. But not sure how that pertains to this.

    [​IMG]

    I think the charging part of the board fried. I'll ask on the evolve forum but that's what I think. Tried the car charger and different wall outlets and it still shows 0.00A. But been vaping it all day after charging these 17-month-old triple 18650s in the Xtar external. the external charges to 4.2 but I set the DNA to stop at 4.1 to make cells last more months in exchange for more puffs between charges.

    If they don't know over on the evolv forum if it was from 17 month batteries or just bad luck and the charging circuit fried, then good point, I don't know if it can be prevented by simply making sure to replace the cells "every 9 months". I just figured it was working so might as well keep using them even though obviously not holding charge as long as fresh cells.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  13. ericbnc

    ericbnc Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 28, 2012
    Piedmont Triad, NC
    I wouldn't be afraid to use the Sony's with the LG battery in the mod for a while till your new three battery set arrives.

    I would also use the mod even if the internal charger doesn't work.
     
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  14. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    well, the brand new batteries still don't charge. I think recent tank flooding ruined the charging section of the board. Oddly, it was premade TFV8 coils that leaked, musta been a defective batch or something, I was even vaping %100 VG (thickest juice) and it still leaked horribly. I've had leaks before but not quite like this (like 5.5ml leaked in a few minutes if I didn't keep an eye on it [great job SMOK for incorporating juice flow into probably the most popular current RTA, thanks]).

    Anyone have any ideas on how I can maybe maybe fix this? I'm thinking open it all up to expose the board and maybe look for obvious problem like a cable detached (doubt that though) or do the soak it in rice trick like if you get water on your phone or laptop? I have zero-residue electronics cleaner spray also I guess I'll try.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    I tried 3 brand new batteries but they won't charge either. I charged them externally first, vaped them to about %80 and they don't' charge. Screen shows 0.00A charging current should be something like 0.99A.

    escribe shows the usb current is flickering between 0.001 and 0.003 (screen shows 0.00 though). It should be steady somewhere around .90

    In escribe Device Monitor with the live graph, it has Diagnostics button. And then Set USB Current Limit. I changed that to .5 and that did nothing, then I clicked Reset USB Current Limit. Then did Set again to .9A. I think it should be 1.0 but a bit afraid to put 1. in case it over currents it or something. Still not charging though.

    I have 3 18650 lG H2 3000 mAh cells in this that are over 17 months old but they still vape for hours if I charge them externally.

    Under MOD tab I have is set to this which I think someone told me in the past to do:
    Battery
    capacity: 33 Wh 3 cell
    Soft Cell cutoff: 2.8V
    Charging Mode: max recharges (instead of max puffs).



    I think recent flooding of a tank caused this. Is there something I can do like take the chip out and soak it in rice or something or try zero-residue electronics cleaner spray?



    Is there a way to factory reset it in escribe maybe that will fix it?

    UPDATE EDIT:

    I did in escribe "Restore Defaults" and that fixed nothing. I set to show on Screen USB voltage which IS correctly showing 4.77 (ish) volts from a 5V output computer USB port. But the USB current is still 0.00A. I can also Show USB Power on screen but it's 0.01W, on my other new DNA250 mod USB Power changes around but is somewhere around 2.00 or something, not 0.01W.
     
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  16. vapesmooth123

    vapesmooth123 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2016
    Bump. Looking for last resort suggestions, such as :
    I think recent flooding of a tank caused this. Is there something I can do like take the chip out and soak it in rice or something or try zero-residue electronics cleaner spray?
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  17. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
     
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