Are we winning?

[the_vape_nerd]

It's not very often the subject of politics makes me smile. The government in recent years isn't very sympathetic to its citizens anymore but I find myself today extremely happy in the way things have shaken our with regard to the FDA regs and the future of vaping generally.

These regs are very minimal and pretty much things I think most of us agree need to be done.

I started vaping in 2011 and although that was only 3 years ago the entire feel in both the vaping community and the non-vaping public has changed. Back then, all the media stories were on the dangers of ecigs, the whole antifreeze nonsense, the whole "no one knows what's in those" b.s. But now, I'm seeing more and more positive vape stories. And even where I do see negative stories, I see vapers standing up for themselves vehemently in the comments sections for those articles.

I've given money to both ECF and CASAA over the years. Written my legislators. And done whatever I can to educate individuals on vaping. This has worked and really should be a lesson for everyone that if you have enough people who feel strongly about a thing, and you are WILLING TO TAKE ACTION, you can get something done.

Thanks should go to the people who are in my opinion the vape leaders. Specifically those two women at CASAA, Elaine and Kristen who I've seen articulately defend vaping on more occasions than I can count. Also to people like Busuardo, the vendors who've started the eliquids voluntary standards group, the vendors who've taken spots on their webpages to notify their customers of legislative changes, ECF itself, and all of its members.

Surely the fight isn't over. But I think this is a day to declare a small victory.

 

[soba1]

I think we are, and quiet as kept we have a lot of support from non smokers.
Also once we educate as we go along the majority come to our side.
There are a few who will always have a bug up their rears but poo poo on them.

 

[Myrany]

Unfortunately what I read of the document screams a ban of most of the things we use. Everything from liquid to mods to topper to anything else they decide is a component must go through the approval process. At which point they can not approve it. Nice sneaky way to ban without calling it a ban.

Though I appreciate the optimism I think it might be a tad premature.

 

[aubergine]

No.
Big tobacco is winning.

 

[stauglocal]

This will be an ongoing nightmare for the FDA, and for the future of Ecig innovation. They already have thousands of applications (for tobacco products) waiting approval, and when the Ecig manufactures start to file, the floodgate will be open. I think we will see many, many lawsuits to follow when applications are backed up by the tens of thousands. The FDA just opened up Pandora's Box.

 

[jjordan]

No.
Big tobacco is winning.

And I don't see how since this is just as legal as a freaking cigarette, it has nicotine in it just doesn't have the tobacco and all the carcinogens, I don't see why they must target us when we have a healthier alternative compared to cancer sticks! Just my 2 cents.

 

[salemgold]

Seems so easy to lull the masses into a false sense of security these days.

 

[Myrany]

And I don't see how since this is just as legal as a freaking cigarette, it has nicotine in it just doesn't have the tobacco and all the carcinogens, I don't see why they must target us when we have a healthier alternative compared to cancer sticks! Just my 2 cents.

They are not interested in our health. They are interested in the interests of their funding sources and the opinions of BT and BP lobbying interests.

Make no mistake they do not have one shred of interest in the health side of this.

 

[soba1]

They are not interested in our health. They are interested in the interests of their funding sources and the opinions of BT and BP lobbying interests.

Make no mistake they do not have one shred of interest in the health side of this.

Yes they are interested in our health...
How dare you think otherwise.......

 

[rhean]

It's not very often the subject of politics makes me smile. The government in recent years isn't very sympathetic to its citizens anymore but I find myself today extremely happy in the way things have shaken our with regard to the FDA regs and the future of vaping generally.

These regs are very minimal and pretty much things I think most of us agree need to be done.

I started vaping in 2011 and although that was only 3 years ago the entire feel in both the vaping community and the non-vaping public has changed. Back then, all the media stories were on the dangers of ecigs, the whole antifreeze nonsense, the whole "no one knows what's in those" b.s. But now, I'm seeing more and more positive vape stories. And even where I do see negative stories, I see vapers standing up for themselves vehemently in the comments sections for those articles.

I've given money to both ECF and CASAA over the years. Written my legislators. And done whatever I can to educate individuals on vaping. This has worked and really should be a lesson for everyone that if you have enough people who feel strongly about a thing, and you are WILLING TO TAKE ACTION, you can get something done.

Thanks should go to the people who are in my opinion the vape leaders. Specifically those two women at CASAA, Elaine and Kristen who I've seen articulately defend vaping on more occasions than I can count. Also to people like Busuardo, the vendors who've started the eliquids voluntary standards group, the vendors who've taken spots on their webpages to notify their customers of legislative changes, ECF itself, and all of its members.

Surely the fight isn't over. But I think this is a day to declare a small victory.

The two-year waiting period, plus room for lawsuits, no ban on online sales, were all far milder than what I expected. I am now very, very guardedly optimistic. I'm also set up with enough juice and gear to last me easily another decade. Preparing for the worst, hoping for something better

Re your avi: my family needs to get away from still icy Wisconsin to the warmth of NOLA. ARGH, warm up already!!!!

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Unfortunately what I read of the document screams a ban of most of the things we use. Everything from liquid to mods to topper to anything else they decide is a component must go through the approval process. At which point they can not approve it. Nice sneaky way to ban without calling it a ban.

Though I appreciate the optimism I think it might be a tad premature.

I didn't read that at all. Anything which doesn't vaporize nicotine isn't included. That means everything except the cigalikes or anything else with nicotine pre-installed isn't covered. Mods aren't covered, egos arent even covered. They COULD be used to vaporize nicotine but they need not be. And if you buy them separate from juice, they simply aren't (at that point in time) a nicotine vaporizing device.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Njoys are being regulated, Blu is being regulated....pre-filled cartomizers that contain nicotine are being regulated, mods and other hardware cannot ever be regulated as they are not tobacco products. Show me for example, where a vamo is derived from tobacco.

 

[Nate760]

When government steps in and tries to regulate a nascent industry, there's only one group of people who win in the end: Lawyers.

 

[lulu836]

If ecigs and all the equipment were ever to be banned I do not understand why tobacco cigarettes are not now and have never been banned. I know about BT and BP and having their pockets lined but doesn't "if you take away my ecigs I'm going to take away your cigarettes" make sense? Just because nobody has made a major move in that direction doesn't mean it couldn't be done

 

[Lessifer]

The big impact is going to be on e-liquid vendors/makers. I haven't had a chance to read the 200+ pages yet, and I doubt it contains all of the info that would decide how costly the application process will be, but if all new e-liquid recipes have to be approved individually as separate products, it will stifle the e-liquid industry and turn it over to those who can afford to get their flavors approved, i.e. BT.

I know we can DIY and maybe we can get by with buying pre-mixed unflavored base, and separate flavorings, and for most of us already into vaping that won't be a huge deal. Consider the new or pre-vaper though, what effect will having to flavor your own liquid have on people curious about vaping? If you can't walk into a vape shop and try new flavors because they're not allowed to mix them, or give "free samples."

It's going to take someone much smarter than me to figure out what we need to fight in this, but I'm sure it's there.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

If ecigs and all the equipment were ever to be banned I do not understand why tobacco cigarettes are not now and have never been banned. I know about BT and BP and having their pockets lined but doesn't "if you take away my ecigs I'm going to take away your cigarettes" make sense? Just because nobody has made a major move in that direction doesn't mean it couldn't be done

I think you ard missing the point. No one is banning anything. The courts and congress have more or less protected tobacco from ever being banned. The proposed regs are basically very light, common sense stuff that we want anyway. Yes, you should tell us what's in our liquid. No they shouldn't be sold to minors.

As to the whole registration of products and so on, I just don't think that matters. The hardware just needs to be sold separately from the juice. That's it.

They haven't even proposed any regs or the sale of highly concentrated nic which I surely thought they would.

 

[lulu836]

I fully understand "the point".

 

[Lessifer]

I think you ard missing the point. No one is banning anything. The courts and congress have more or less protected tobacco from ever being banned. The proposed regs are basically very light, common sense stuff that we want anyway. Yes, you should tell us what's in our liquid. No they shouldn't be sold to minors.

As to the whole registration of products and so on, I just don't think that matters. The hardware just needs to be sold separately from the juice. That's it.

They haven't even proposed any regs or the sale of highly concentrated nic which I surely thought they would.

I posted something similar in another thread, consider this: If a vendor offers 5 different nic strengths, and 6 different pg/vg ratio options, and each combination is regarded as a separate product, that's 30 "products" for EACH flavor. Depending on how much each product application is, and how many hoops have to be jumped through, and whether or not the FDA actually APPROVES any product application, this could cripple the e-liquid industry. Do you really only want to have the choice of Marlboro Red Regular/Strong etc.?

 

[Maestro]

I also posted something in a similar thread like this: simply pre-mix the flavorings and sell it like that. The FDA couldn't touch it. Let the consumer add it to whatever he wants. Does it really matter whether it's mixed with the nic juice by the consumer or the vendor?

 

[unknown_shooter]

I also posted something in a similar thread like this: simply pre-mix the flavorings and sell it like that. The FDA couldn't touch it. Let the consumer add it to whatever he wants. Does it really matter whether it's mixed with the nic juice by the consumer or the vendor?

Actually, if you wade through the 200+ pages of mindless unsupported drivel they spewed, you would see that they specifically mentioned regulating flavorings. They're also "seeking input" on what parts/components of the ecig device/hardware to control/regulate & eventually ban. They specifically mentioned things like lighters and cig cases as not being regulate-able, but they're reserving the right to regulate other (undefined) components... and asking for the public's "help" in deciding what those components should include.

I agree that it's not as draconian as I personally expected it to be - certainly those who currently use e-cigs have plenty of time to take care of themselves, what concerns me is those who haven't discovered (good) e-cigs losing the opportunity to beat the weed in the future.