Well I see it differently. I think people don't fully understand resources, money, and personnel models.
And the impact is only IF the deeming regs remain as they are now.........(which they won't.)
1) I watch what billionaires like Sean Parker, Peter Thiel, Jan Verleur, etc. are doing. Not what scared vapers are doing. the billionaires in france and elsewhere with names I can't pronounce and that you never heard of are many as well. (you know that old expression follow the money.) There are so many billionaires in the ecig industry (here and worldwide) I think it is pretty naive that anyone thinks they are just gong to walk away and sell pet rocks or something.
2) "Down the line" will be decades from now. Because lawsuits are going to delay much of it. Predicate dates will get changed as well. Even the FDA has already said it will be looking for ways to reduce this impact—such as letting manufacturers file one PMTA for multiple flavors, etc. I expect this to get even further diluted as the push back and lawsuits rumble.
3) How many years/decades did it take for patches and gum to be reclassified from prescription to OTC status? That is how long it takes the FDA to "accomplish" things.
4) Please explain how, given the manpower they have, that the FDA is going to be able to process a piece of submitted paper for every single "part" of every single piece of vaping hardware out there....let alone for ejuices? It will take........years/decades.
Some of you actually think they *want* to do all that work. They don't.At any rate, hope they are planning on building out another building/industrial complex, and hiring lots more personnel.
5) Some of you don't seem to understand that many billionaires and millionaires are operating in this market. (That aren't BT). Competition in so many markets and it's very......... cutthroat.
6) Given that the rest of the real-world supply chain isn't even in the US:
Now on top of FDA manpower, you're tellling me US Customs and the USPS, FedEx, DHL, UPS, etc. is going to add personnel to their organizations, as well as forms and paperwork....... just to dedicate themselves to vapers and vaping?
You are talking gearing up by 5+ different organizations just to address something only 10% of the population engages in. Talk about not understanding how money and staffing works.
7) Even TPD affected - vapers in Australia, etc. are using Fasttech and the other China vendors just fine. Even in places where nicotine is said to be illegal most all of them allow "nicotine for personal use".
As for price increases and taxes.....Remember when they kept raising the prices of cigarettes? The FDA regulates cigarettes and tobacco products. Some people quit because they didn't want to pay it..........but most didn't. Regulation didn't make cigarettes unavailable.
Vaping stuff has always had a mark up of about 200-400% , eliquid has been more than that. I can make 30ml for $1.25 or less.....and some vendors are charging $28. You do the math. People still bought. And will continue to buy.
(the eliquid market is so over-saturated now, you could do away with a few thousand flavors and nobody would even notice). The new thing that they are cashing in on now, in the real world supply chain, is DIY supplies. Nobody needs or wants 200,000 vendor eliquids.
An industry with a projected $20 billion of sales ripe for the plucking, you guys think it is going to just "go away"? Nobody is gonna walk away from that table, and Big Tobacco already knows they aren't going to be the only major player (because they already have figures on their products and sales figures and they know that their cigalikes aren't outselling chinese stuff). This idea that the vaping industry will be 'handed to them' is malarky......they don't WANT to concentrate in a market with products that won't sell and won't make them any money.....they are making 100X that much on cigarettes. Yes, they will get a piece of vaping but they can't *deliver* and they know that, so they are not going to set themselves up for putting all their eggs into a failed market venture.
7) The FDA just wants to cover its ..... It has to show it is somehow "protecting" health, esp of children. They will show they are doing their job with age restrictions, online age verification, batch numbers, lot numbers, and ingredient labels (OTC risk-benefit is a big plus in their eyes, and I agree). It will be many decades before any definitive studies can show vaping is as dangerous as cigarettes (not to mention those studies will never prove that anyway.)
I'm sorry, but I just don't see what you all are seeing.So, I will be spending my money buying the land/acreage next door to me rather than stockpiling a bunch of cheap chinese junk that won't be worth anything in 2018.........
Between now and October, maybe a few months into 2017, things will be a little rough. Then, stuff will start to happen. Most everything right now is *temporary* and all people do is keep reading regulations w/out even considering the actual MANPOWER it would take to accomplish it "as it stands now". They will also be battling lawsuits, etc.
I may not be right. I guess I will bookmark this post and revisit it in August of 2018. [emoji38]
1) doesn't matter how many billionaires there are. They're not the ones in BG and FDA pockets.
2) in the meantime we still have what's already on file to contend with.
3) and that's how long it's going to take to change what's already on file.
4) They don't plan to. They'll forward that privilege to BT as they do with cattle in the farm industry.
5) good luck getting them to band together and be useful.
6) nope. Besides, those costs get billed directly to the shipper and paid before the shipping container is released.
7) they're not here.
7+ add a zero or two to that % markup and watch people be priced out of a safer alternative.
7++ that $20 billion is so fragmented, it's just silly. You think now, all of a sudden, everyone with a vape business is going to band together?
They can deliver. They have the money to buy innovators. They just refuse to. Addiction is more profitable than a turn key customer base.
7) some of us aren't interested in the garbage coming out of China.
And BTW, the way customs works, they're very happy to completely refuse all containers from repeat offenders. FT is low hanging fruit for example.
7 again) it's a political front. Pulling heart strings and eliminating outcry from the populous. They're not saving face. They're covering their bases for their owners... err... funding sources. FDA covering it's hind? Yeah, but not how you're thinking.
I won't be buying cheap, Chinese junk either. It has no worth to me now.
Your points have merit.
And things will change.
But there are things (just like everyone else) you seem to be ignorant of and things that just aren't predictable.
I have everything *I* need to get through.
But uncertainty is the future for many... including your billionaires.
Though rest assured govt, BT & BP will definitely recoup the $ they're already losing at all costs.
Tapatyped
Considering that the most draconion and restrictive vaping laws for online purchasing have been passed in Arkansas, Utah, and Indiana all were signed into effect by republicans. PA too I think?
It is not partisan. They are all doing it.
I'm wondering how much longer I can use this "I'm stocking up" excuse to keep buying and buying. I just love vape mail.
I suspect for at least another month.
I suspect for at least another month.
I
love your avatarI'm wondering how much longer I can use this "I'm stocking up" excuse to keep buying and buying. I just love vape mail.
I suspect for at least another month.
Wanted to grab a couple Kanger RBA's off of FT but I can't find the one's with the big holes. Authentic reviews are all mixed on whether they're small or big holes.
These ones?
$5.59 Authentic KangerTech SUBTANK Mini RBA Plus Coil Head - stainless steel at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
These are the ones I put in my cart to order. It says rba plus so I assumed it was latest version with bigger holes.... is it not?
Yeah those. Some of the most recent reviews say latest shipments have the small holes, which would make sense I just got two Toptank kits from an authorized Kanger dealer and they both came with the small hole one's too. Was gonna just get some clones but they're saying same thing.
Maybe it's a sign. I can't get a Sub/Top tank to wick for the life of me right now. Even on the big holed ones, with distilled water, very little cotton, and room for juice to get past cotton. Hope the overnight sitting helps.
thanks for the heads up. guess I will shop around for those state side and check with the vendor to be sure before ordering. I would rather pay a few bucks more per head to get the ones with the bigger holes.
A lot of interesting views and opinions last night. They should make many a lurkers think a bit.
OK I must REALLY be done. Went to make up a Fasttech cart to use the coupon, and came up with about $10 worth. Not really worth ordering! Maybe by Labor Day?
Not really worth ordering! Maybe by Labor Day?
OK I must REALLY be done. Went to make up a Fasttech cart to use the coupon, and came up with about $10 worth.
I had the same problem!
@Haktuspit and @Fozzy71 -
KangerTech Mini RBA Plus for Subtank Mini & Plus
$6.95 (Less 10% off if you've never ordered from them)
Code: 1storder10
They've got other Kanger replacement parts pretty cheap, too. I got more of the RBAs, a few bases, more replacement glass, etc.
Their S/H is very cheap, too, usually like $2.50-$3.00 First Class.
KangerTech Mini RBA Plus for Subtank Mini & Plus
$6.95 (Less 10% off if you've never ordered from them)
Code: 1storder10
They've got other Kanger replacement parts pretty cheap, too. I got more of the RBAs, a few bases, more replacement glass, etc.
Their S/H is very cheap, too, usually like $2.50-$3.00 First Class.
thx, tried adding 4 to my cart:
We don't have enough KangerTech Mini RBA Plus for Subtank Mini & Plus stock on hand for the quantity you selected. Please try again.
MVS has them for the same price. I sent them support ticket to make sure they were the plus version.
I bet your mouth would have fallen open or you would have laughed at Kiddo's wedding.No, I just get quiet at big weddings, or large sporting events.
Just too many people in one spot for me.
@Haktuspit sorry, I don't know about the distilled water.
the bride, mother of the bride and the father of the bride were 'late' to the alter (out door wedding in a forest).....so after about a 1/2 hour,, our son who was entertaining everyone,, finally said,, 'you guys know I built & brought my huge kegerator,, its down there by the food,, go help yourselves.'----darn near the whole group went down there (a whole other pocket clearing in the forest a bit 'away') and brought back 2 beers (not our side of the family).....it was hilarious, because the brides mother is such a 'pushy woman' and I don't think she knew about it until she sees the video. most of the guests were marines in full dress,, and they all made it back for the wedding before the bride showed up.
I am not going to miss being prepared for an unknown future. Sure I could take my stock up money and bet it on a sure thing at the track and maybe win it maybe lose. But I have a stock of supplies instead, that was my bet and I win either way
Help! Where can I find a kayfun lite clone or a Russian 91% clone?
Just got my 40 feet of Rayon from eBay... That's a ton of product in a decent sized box that will last me years and years. Can only imagine the 3lb box.
Us(we here at ecf and other forums) stocking up may be way more important for our future vaping than anyone actually realizes.I am not going to miss being prepared for an unknown future. Sure I could take my stock up money and bet it on a sure thing at the track and maybe win it maybe lose. But I have a stock of supplies instead, that was my bet and I win either way
There seems to be a whole lot more going on(within the vaping community) that some are just starting to hear about. And it ain't pretty. So, in that vein, keep up the good fight and don't blindly follow some of the 'leaders' in this industry. Question everything then decide whom you wish to follow. And always follow the money.
The 3lb boxes are HUGE. I went to a local sally's to buy the 40' box but they only had the big boxes. Now that I know I like using rayon I will get one of those when this smaller box eventually runs out.
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