Arkansas ACT 1235 (SB978) Shuts Down Online Sales

[Utsuru]

I live in Arkansas and placed a big DIY order on July 22nd with RTS Vapes as a test and it was delivered yesterday no issues. I ordered 2 gallons of vg/pg, 1 liter of nicotine, bottles, flavoring, etc and nothing was confiscated or opened.

I think a good majority of people are more concerned that UPS/Fedex Ground will open and/or confiscate packages since they do not need a Federal Warrant like USPS. To test this theory, I had the order shipped UPS Ground and I asked RTS to make sure the shipping label had literature related to vaping to see what would happen. The shipping label said "From: RTS Vapes/E-Cig Supplies" in bold font and arrived with no issue.

Maybe it was dumb luck that it went so smoothly, but I feel confident I can continue to order my DIY supplies without issue.

I've been awaiting an innokin Disrupter I won on here a while back that should have arrived by now, I'm starting to fear it won't reach me. I'm staying positive though as I never had tracking information to begin with. It's good to hear you got your order smoothly.

 

[warace]

messaged the board and got this response the bill is to regulate the sale of e liquid . it is dumb i agree but unless we rally enough people this is the way it is.

and the response

 

[skoony]

Why? do you think they're going to come into someone's home, look around, and say "well you obviously don't use this to make candy, so we're confiscating it."? I defy anyone to come into my house and tell me what I can or can't make. They cannot restrict the sale of something that was around a long time before vaping, which is used in a lot of other applications, but just happens to also be useful for vaping.

Andria

not initially.
if there comes a time they perceive they are
loosing substantial tax revenue to DIY they
will certainly make some effort to stop it.
i think the law is written in such a way as
to cover as many scenarios as they can think
of.then if some comes up in the future they
do not have to get another law pasted.

regards
mike

 

[zahzoo]

Don't expect Vegetable Glycerin or Propylene Glycol to be effected by any of this... both are using in making toothpaste, cosmetics, shampoos, soaps, herbal remedies, etc... None of which are regulated for consumer purchase, possession or use. For flavorings... 99% or more are manufactured as food flavorings not e-juice.

I too recently placed an order on the 22nd for nic base, flavors and VG. Shipped and arrived no problems.

In talking with a few B&M's and folks in discussions with the ATC... ordering hardware and DIY supplies on-line from out of state vendors should be OK. Appears the ATC is primarily concerned with pre-made/flavored e-juice and the licensing process for retail/manufacturers.

 

[Racehorse]

and the response

That is correct, and glad the ATC is giving out the correct information to people, including vendors, many of whom I talked to weren't sure what the bill covered. I posted that it didn't include hardware a few days ago, after reading the bill 9 times.

Not sure what you mean by hardware.......there are no provisions in the AR bill that cover devices.

 

[Racehorse]

If this was any other state instead of Arkansas this would be huge news, but because we're the little rinky-dink state we are this isn't garnering much attention.

Not really. (Though it would be great if all the self-described militant and activist vapers would show up in this topic though.)

Right now, talking to vapers and vendors in AR, they're getting a lot of "it sucks to be you".

Many of the vendors and vapers here feel that this will be like a domino effect.... AR just did it before some of the other states. (in that respect, while some people are saying what a backward state AR is, you can bet your beans that politicians from other states are saying to themselves...." Wow! How'd they DO that so fast down there in ARKANSAS? Why didn't we think of that?" "thought all those southerners were pokey and laid back". )


Lip service isnt' going to solve this anyway, it will have to be done in the courts --- This is a law that has already been passed. There are probably a number of commerce clause violations, etc. The vaping industry is very competitive and some of it is dog-eat-dog, so it is yet to be seen what kind of support the vaping industry as a whole will be offering to AR vendors or vapers. Hopefully there will be legal challenges and funds to litigate, etc. I'm sure they have their own battles in their own states going on too.
----------------
I hate to bring this up, but I would say that Arkansas residents should not be entering any CONTESTS FOR ELIQUIDS, unless you want to just PIF it the person posting below you or above you. Vendors will not be able to ship you any eliquid without breaking the law. Hardware is fine.

Keep in mind there are lots of vendors who don't even KNOW about the AR law yet.....I personally would not put them in a bad position.
-----------------

you are right that this is the intial setup to tax eliquids. I don't know about your word "heavily". I talked to a number of vendors in the state with B&Ms and it looks like about $1.15 additional on a 30ml bottle.

 

[YoursTruli]

not initially.
if there comes a time they perceive they are
loosing substantial tax revenue to DIY they
will certainly make some effort to stop it.
i think the law is written in such a way as
to cover as many scenarios as they can think
of.then if some comes up in the future they
do not have to get another law pasted.

regards
mike

I disagree I feel the law was written to cover one thing, the flow of premade eliquids because it can be treated in the exact same manner as cigarettes/tobacco products.

With this bill concentrating on premade eliquids they will raise revenue for the state with new business permits, fines in violations on a business/individual basis, they also put the identical paper trail in place as with cigarettes/other tobacco products to set it up for future taxation in the exact same manner as such which will also raise revenue for the state, they also can effectively control it utilizing the existing manpower they now have in place for tobacco control to minimize the cost of control... so if you add it up
+Business permits
+Fines
+Taxation
+Using existing manpower for control
= Serious win all the way around for the state.

They have no reason go after things they could not effectively tax or will have a difficult/impossible time controlling costing them in additional manpower resulting in a loss of revenue for the state.


ETA: not to mention how good they look for control on no sales to minors and product quality controls

 

[BabyCrusher]

I don't know what B&Ms you're talking to that said there was any tax increase. Every manufacture I've spoken with hasn't said "sucks to be you" They all ask what they need to do if anything in order to comply.

Maybe I'm an ... for thinking this way, but honestly the licensing and all needed to be done. Why? Because it stops or slows people down trying to open a shop to mix juice on the cheap for fast profit, among other things. Not everyone is good people, not everyone cares about you. This is forcing basic structuring.
Is it setting up for future taxes? Well of course. They had to put the business type somewhere.. Did you want pharma? Does that mean it's getting taxed? No. Will it? That's up to the 13 people that will probably show up to the Capitol like last time.


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[YoursTruli]

...and I can easily see AR lumping in nic-base with the premade eliquids as a wholesaler directly selling vapor product to end consumers which would violate this law, that would affect the DIYers.

 

[BabyCrusher]

I would have to ask Roland directly about that, but when we spoke they had no intentions of going after DIY unless they were selling to retail, which would then require the applicable licenses.

 

[Racehorse]

but honestly the licensing and all needed to be done.

Why? Because it stops or slows people down trying to open a shop to mix juice on the cheap for fast profit, among other things. Not everyone is good people, not everyone cares about you.

So only vendors presently doing business in the State of Arkansas are the "kind of people" who "care about me"?

If you'll forgive me for saying this, I kinda don't like the way this sounds.

Maybe I am hearing it the wrong way. It sounds like you are in favor of restricting new businesses from opening in AR.

I could see how an existing ecig vendor might like that idea, because it will certainly lessen the competition for existing vendors.

I personally don't believe that "squelching competition" is good for consumers and also not good for innovation.

And let's face it, there's not exactly a "vape store on every corner" in Arkansas. Not even close. So it's not like we're being *over-run* with too many vaping businesses. But there does seem to be some items in the new bill/law that seem very restrictive in terms of granting new permits, etc.


Are you a vaper or a vendor or both? Just trying to understand your perspective.

I don't know what B&Ms you're talking to that said there was any tax increase.

BC, I didnt say that. I said IF there became a tax increase. I was responding to someone's post who used the word "heavily" in the will-be-taxed scenario.
.

That this bill is a precursor to set that up, no doubt, but nowhere did I say that there is a tax increase presently in effect.

I was actually heading off fears that people post about all the time like "omg eliquid will cost $40 a bottle if they tax it!!!"

I could be wrong about the $1.15, it was a guestiimate, based on what I've figured out.

Do you think if eventually taxed it will be more?

 

[BabyCrusher]

I know it sounds really bad, sorry I'm driving. Let me fight through the traffic and clarify.

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[BabyCrusher]

So only vendors presently doing business in the State of Arkansas are the "kind of people" who "care about me"?

Touche'

If you'll forgive me for saying this, I kinda don't like the way this sounds.

Maybe I am hearing it the wrong way. It sounds like you are in favor of restricting new businesses from opening in AR.

I could see how an existing ecig vendor might like that idea, because it will certainly lessen the competition for existing vendors.

I personally don't believe that "squelching competition" is good for consumers and also not good for innovation.

And let's face it, there's not exactly a "vape store on every corner" in Arkansas. Not even close. So it's not like we're being *over-run* with too many vaping businesses. But there does seem to be some items in the new bill/law that seem very restrictive in terms of granting new permits, etc.

I don't agree with restricting new businesses from opening in AR. The frustration in my response comes from all the new found advocates that are up in arms about this "Mystery law" when everyone knew it was happening, and only a handful cared. Now everyone (exaggerating) wants to open a shed in their yard and call it a wholesale in order to get juice from out of state. You're right though, it was very poorly wrote out and definitely construed as being in favor.

If they limit wholesale licenses and have hard to meet manufacture license standards, yes, some shops will be forced to close, and that sucks. Personally I would rather have the people decide with their $$, not the gov.

However, we have no idea what the stipulations for those two licenses will be so it's hard to say "Yea they were doing things wrong and chose not to improve" or "The standards are too high for all but a few to meet"
The ones potentially getting hit the hardest is shops mixing in house, if the manufacture license is denied.

Are you a vaper or a vendor or both? Just trying to understand your perspective.

I am not a vendor

BC, I didnt say that. I said IF there became a tax increase. I was responding to someone's post who used the word "heavily" in the will-be-taxed scenario.
.

That this bill is a precursor to set that up, no doubt, but nowhere did I say that there is a tax increase presently in effect.

I was actually heading off fears that people post about all the time like "omg eliquid will cost $40 a bottle if they tax it!!!"

I could be wrong about the $1.15, it was a guestiimate, based on what I've figured out.

Do you think if eventually taxed it will be more?

I apologize, I misread.

As for what I think a guesstimate would be? Feel like it depends how bad they demonize it over the next few years and what the FDA says coming up shortly. I say "Tax for what?" a tax makes no sense to me aside from claiming their already spent loans against the MSA. We basically work to pay the taxes obtained for working.. a revolution is coming..hopefully not too violent.

 

[Racehorse]

I know it sounds really bad, sorry I'm driving. Let me fight through the traffic and clarify.

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That's okay, I do "get your jist" though. About my safety, and I do appreciate the purport of what you are saying.

I just don't think there's ENOUGH vapor shops in AR. There needs to be way more.....now, especially.

I am wondering if this new law/bill limits the # of permits, I guess every state / municipality does, but I hope it isn't overly limiting HERE.


I did notice that part of the licensing/permit is: Arkansas Tobacco Control shall conduct a criminal justice background check on each permit applicant

 

[BabyCrusher]

I could see the wholesale being being limited to a handful.

 

[Racehorse]

Thank you for your thoughts on this, BabyCrusher and for the added info.

 

[stevegmu]

So CASSA and or tbe Vaping Militia are challenging this in court?

 

[Racehorse]

Guys and gals,

It won't matter about plans to get eliquid ...... there are notices all over the place popping up on vendor sites. I posted this in eliquid forum as well, hope they LEAVE IT THERE because so many vapers NEVER come to the Leigist forums and this info needs to be known.

Johnson Creek™ Vapor Liquid (johnson creek.....are applying for manufacturing license for state of AR......add your favorite B&M to their list so they can carry it.

Important Shipping Policy Announcement Regarding Arkansas’ ACT 1235 (SB978) | Premium Vapor Liquid Blends - Wagashi Mixology

Welcome to Zikwid.com - What's Your Flavor?
(look on top)

Arkansas Residents - Bama Vapor

Arkansas ACT 1235 (SB978) Shuts Down Online Sales

Welcome to Ecigsupply - Your Source For JoyeTech, SmokTech, And Kanger

Vintage Vapor Vaping Archives - Vintage Vapor

Steam Punk Vapors

eJuiceMonkeys.com, Simply Evolutionary

Indy Vapor Shop Electronic Cigarette Liquid - Home (knows they can ship hardware, etc.)


That's as far as I got but there are many many more.......


What WOULD help at this point is if when ya'll see these notices, can you take a MOMENT to email/contact the website and let them know that this does not include hardware sales? Some are not mentioning this and I just want to make sure AR vapers are not completely cut off from hardware too.

It would be a shame if AR vapors were totally cut off from even buying replacement coils. etc.


the reason I bring this up is because there is a LOT of rural area in AR......so many do not even have vape stores or B&Ms, without driving 50+ miles.

 

[BabyCrusher]

They don't need a manufacturer license if they are not an Arkansas registered business.

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[Racehorse]

They don't need a manufacturer license if they are not an Arkansas registered business.

I just copied what they wrote on their website. Seems like there is a lot of confusion about this