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Ask your favorite suppliers to remove diacetyl from their e-liquids!

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by JeffTM, Oct 10, 2010.

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  1. JeffTM

    JeffTM Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2010
    Chatsworth, CA
    The following is a letter I intend to send to some suppliers that contain diacetyl in their liquids (so far, I only know of liberty-flights, but I'm pretty sure there are more). I think it's extremely important that we consumers know about this. This letter is going to Liberty-Flights.


    As you may already know, diacetyl is an ingredient used in foods to give them a "buttery" flavor. Evidence has shown that some individuals inhaling this chemical on a regular basis (in a work environment) have developed a life threatening and untreatable condition known as Bronchiolitis Obliterans.

    Wikipedia - Bronchiolitis Obliterans

    Wikipedia - Diacetyl

    I was unaware of this potential health hazard until recently. I'm sure that many vapers are unaware of the health risks as well. Although you have some information about diacetyl on your site, I imagine it is not something most consumers will bother to read. As a favorite supplier of e-liquids for many vapers, I implore you to consider removing this chemical from your e-liquids. There are suitable alternatives.

    I think it is extremely important for all suppliers of e-liquid to be as careful as possible to prevent potentially causing harm to its customers. Although studies have not been done on inhalation effects of other flavorants, suppliers such as yourself can at least start by removing chemicals that are already known to be toxic. By neglecting to do this, you may be causing injury that will not only hurt individuals, but also the entire vaping industry, which is already under fire by many critics.

    As a consumer, I hope that vaping will one day be widely accepted as a much safer alternative to smoking cigarettes, so that more people can experience the freedom from tobacco that I have experienced. You can help this process by removing this dangerous chemical from your products. Thank you.
  2. Seabrook

    Seabrook Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2010
    Oceanside, CA
    There are a lot of butter flavorings that do not have diacetyl in it. ...............
  3. JeffTM

    JeffTM Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2010
    Chatsworth, CA
    I actually made a mistake and will edit the post. Liberty-Flights is the website that offers information about diacetyl and lists the products it has that contain it. Sorry about the confusion.
  4. kushka

    kushka Super Member ECF Veteran Verified Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    Marietta, GA
    Perfumers Apprentice states they do not use diacetyl. This is a statement from Flavorarts website:

    So this should clear the fact that diacetyl is normally consumed when people eat butter, drink beer or wine, eat a fruit and its moderate consumption is harmless.

    However we realize that for E smokers, our food flavors are used in a different way as they are not ingested but inhaled, and the presence of diacetyl can be a cause of concern.

    So we are pleased to inform our customers, which flavours contain diacetyl and related amount in %. Just consider that the amount shown is related to 100% flavor, so when used in finished product its content is less. As example, butter flavor dosed at 0,3% in E juice.

    The amount of diacetyl in 100 ml of E.juice is 0,0045 grams.

    Assuming that a typical E cigarette contains an average of 0,2ml of E juice, the amount of diacetyl assumed in a smoking session is...... 0,000009 grams or 0,009 ppm (part per million).

    Always consider the dosage in use !

    Apple pie 0,4

    Beer 0,001

    Butter 1,5

    Butterscotch 0,012

    Beef boiled 0,00005

    Bell pepper 0,01

    Chestnut 0,03

    Champagne 0,0016

    Coconut 0,5

    Croissant 0,074

    Cheese Erdammer 0,09

    Cheese Emmenthal 0,018

    Cheese Parmigiano 0,29

    Coffee 0,27

    Caramel and butterscotch 0,07

    Corn 0,2

    Cream 0,078

    Egg yolk 0,015

    Fried 0,01

    Golden syrup 0,09

    Hazelnut 0,01

    Maple 0,012

    Milk condensed 0,5

    Malt 0,01

    Melon 0,01

    Nut wild mix 0,9

    Olive 0,01

    Potato 0,00012

    Pistacchio 0,0015

    Rum 0,022

    Soy sauce 0,35

    Salmon 0,02

    black 0,1

    Tiramisu 0,05

    Vanlla Madagascar 0,04

    Vanilla Tahiti 0,08

    Yogurt 1,6

    Disclaimer: We produce and sell FOOD FLAVORS which comply with Italian and EU legislation and EFSA reccomendation. They are safe for FOOD use as they are intended to enter the body by the digestive system, not by lungs.

    Digestion involves acid breakdown, enzyme attack, and kidney and liver processing. Vapor by the lungs goes directly in the blood stream. Even though due to absence of combustion, vaping can be compared to odor smelling in open air, consumption of food flavors by vaping has not been specifically tested for safety. Flavourart srl can not be held responsible for any claim or damage arising by the use of food flavor by the means of electronic devices as E-vapers, E cigarettes and similar.
  5. GiMante

    GiMante Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2010
    So Cal
    I would like to know which juice suppliers use flavorings with it and which ones do not.
  6. kushka

    kushka Super Member ECF Veteran Verified Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    Marietta, GA
    I just checked Loranns website and saw this:
    "none of LorAnn's flavors contain diacetyl. "

    So Lorann and Perfumers Apprentice flavors do not contain diacetyl
  7. Seabrook

    Seabrook Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2010
    Oceanside, CA
    And this is from Capella Flavor Drops (what I use in my DIY):

    Our Flavors are Food Grade Flavorings , and are DIACETYL FREE.

    NOT PERFUME Chemicals or Perfume ingredients.

    Our flavors do NOT contain any Red,Yellow, or Blue dyes which could be harmful to your atomizer.
  8. Panini

    Panini Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2010
    I actually contacted FSUSA directly about this and David replied right away to say that none of the ingredients they use contain diacetyl. I realize their name was removed from the original post, but just wanted to confirm that they don't use case there was any question about it.

    By the way, OP...great letter.
  9. SimpleSins

    SimpleSins Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 18, 2010
    SW Iowa
    So then it seems of the known flavoring agents, it's only the Flavour Art that contains diacetyl, and therefore if you know that a supplier uses Flavour Art in juice and produces any of the flavors listed above, the vapee is getting some diacetyl, albeit in small amounts. I wonder if the vendors even realize that.

    That being said, I wonder if the small amounts used is even problematic or if the use throughout the whole day increases it.
  10. GiMante

    GiMante Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2010
    So Cal
    They use Flavourart, how can their juice not have it in it? They even sell "butter" flavor juice.
  11. 5cardstud

    5cardstud ECF Guru ECF Veteran Verified Member

    Jan 1, 2010
    good question.
  12. Panini

    Panini Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2010
    That is a good question.
  13. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager ECF Veteran Verified Member

    Supporting member
    Sep 24, 2009
    ECF Towers
    Check the Decadent Vapours supplier forum for more info on diacetyl.
  14. GiMante

    GiMante Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2010
    So Cal
    I've read almost that whole forum. I respect Nick for being so open about his products. I have even started looking into DIY because the only place I can get his stuff here in the US is from TW, and that is in flavoring form only.
  15. Seabrook

    Seabrook Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2010
    Oceanside, CA
    That is why I have been DIYing for the past 4 months. The only flavoring I use to DIY is LorAnns and Capella's because of their purity.
  16. GiMante

    GiMante Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2010
    So Cal
    Seabrook, DIY'ing is starting to appeal to me more and more. Would you mind, after I read much more of course, if I ask you questions from time to time? Hey, I'm not too far from you either :) (Temecula Area)
  17. GoodDog

    GoodDog Vaping Master ECF Veteran Verified Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    SF East Bay
    Thanks to the OP for this information and for your willingness to help ensure our safety.

    Diacetyl isn't the only ingredient we need to be concerned about. With the popularity of vaping exploding in the last year or so new businesses are popping up left and right. Flavorings are made of chemical molecules and should be manufactured following state health and safety codes. In Calif for example anything ingested whether inhaled or eaten needs to follow Calif Health & Safety Codes.

    These regulations exclude companies that use their homes for the manufacture of flavorings. Yet one of the major DIY flavoring companies recommended by many ECF members does not follow these regulations and denies that they are relevant to their business. Unless you are selling it to go on your wrists it is relevant and it's only a matter of time before someone gets sick from improper mixing of these chemicals or from bacteria. It's much different than eLiquid vendors adding flavorings to nicotine but add that to the many vendors using these potentially unsafe (as per State of California) flavorings and the entire industry is at risk.

    Recently an owner of a major flavoring company told me that some flavor molecules don't work well with others and there's a potential for harm. Unless there's a in-house chemist, all ingredients are food grade (not a cheaper substitute) and cGMP is followed we shouldn't be vaping it.

    It bothers me to read posts by suppliers that openly state they are changing from a cGMP flavoring manufacturer to a non-compliant one because of price. Even with complaints of health issues from customers one vendor continues to have flavors copied using substandard, to the food industry, ingredients.

    It's no wonder the FDA wants to regulate e-cigarettes. It's apparent we can't police ourselves!
  18. JeffTM

    JeffTM Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2010
    Chatsworth, CA
    Sad, but true. This is one of the reasons I actually wouldn't mind the FDA regulating e-liquids... just so long as they don't get silly and start banning it all.
  19. Bovinia

    Bovinia Divine Bovine ECF Veteran

    Jul 17, 2010
    South Carolina
    It is a very sad and frightening truth that we can not depend on every supplier and vendor to have our best interests as consumers as their priority. When an industry explodes as quickly and promisingly as the e-juice business has, you are always going to have a handful of unscrupulous companies pop up with dollar signs as their main goal. That leaves the policing of what we inhale in our hands...literally.

    Some of us are willing to (and have) dug deeper into what exactly goes into our juices and thus into our lungs, some of what has been uncovered is frightening. Most of us turned to vaping as a healthier alternative to smoking, so it just makes sense to me that we should keep our suppliers HONEST. Not all of them are willing to do the same for us. When $$$ are involved it can be every man for himself. It's time for us as consumers to let our dollars speak out...without us, the less than honest vendor goes under.
  20. GiMante

    GiMante Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 14, 2010
    So Cal
    +1 for that.^

    Most of us started vaping to stop smoking to become healthier. Why trade one bad habit for another? If that is the case, I might as well start smoking cigarettes again.

    We can't just sit back and "hope" what's in our juices is safe.
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