Attention all members...please read!!!

[Jules22871]

Yes, we do need to have a debate about multiple accounts. Should we just make them forbidden and ban any member found to have them instantly?

I'm not sure what legitimate reason anyone could have to have multiple accounts.

lol... I think he was saying they have multiple accounts so that his wife doesn't make it look like he's talking about a pink e-cig. They'd each have their own login, hence multiple accounts on the same IP. Taking this one step further, say my wife was a vaper... she has her own PC. She'd want her own account... but we are behind a firewall. The external world only sees one IP address for my household... but there are 5 PCs in here... if my kids (all over 18) were vapers and had their own logins... Now we'd have 5 accounts from one IP address.

Of course, a little common sense goes a long way too. Just monitoring the posts would help determine if they were malicious or not.

We have 4 PC in our house and 3 vapers. So far I am the only one that has joined but now I'm not so sure I want my family to join me on here. If we are going to get banned because we are all on the same IP and my hubby and I actually do share an email addy then it's not worth it. He will lose out on being able to post his opinion and ask his questions using his own identity. Really kind of makes me want to shy away from here all together.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Of course, a little common sense goes a long way too. Just monitoring the posts would help determine if they were malicious or not.

And I think this is what is key here. Yes. It is a forum and a community and some of the characters who arrive here are wild (and dishonest)! However, there is also a base of users here that take this type of behavior seriously and honestly, are trolls and multiple users that difficult to find?

I don't know from the mod's perspective how much they really have to do to investigate a user but I know from a member perspective, it isn't really hard to figure out someones true intentions by visiting their stats page and looking at previous posts... and also how fellow members deal with them. Of all the reports from members to mods, how often are the members right vs. wrong?

I guess this question is for Smokey... Thus far, when a multiple user has popped up... is it a time consuming task to determine what might be happening and if so, is it easier to ban first ask questions later?

From members who are here quite often, would it be so hard to alert a mod specific for the task of noting an ip as being able to have more than one account (and can that even be done)?

For example, Jules notes that there are 3 people in her case who might have interest in participating on the forum. Would it be difficult for a mod if Jules were to contact them as "vouching" for her other two users? I know this all comes down to time and burden on the mods...

Edit: SJ is asking for more mods again... so if anyone is interested http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ssion/15633-more-moderators-needed-again.html

 

[Kate]

I don't see what the big deal is.

One account per person is a perfectly reasonable condition of membership.

Enforcing that is a matter of investigating trolls and spammers, that's not likely to be happening with genuine multi user households.

The fact is that a layer of legal and moral protection is missing from the forum at the moment. If someone is caught causing trouble they should never be able to claim that they didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

How can it be restricting the freedoms of honest users to out line what's acceptable conduct if honest users wouldn't pose as multiple identities anyway?

 

[lordmage]

some even have the link in thier signature and dont have to do anything besides act like a normal user there link will be ther anyway.

how about adding more verify steps to the reqisteration steps on the same ip. seprate emails,seprate phone,image verify as well.
step one verfy account thru emal, then text msg code and all with image vefy as well.
making it harder to secure account on the same ip would slow it down.
also the captica used would be random securing that it is a person posting and creating and not a bot.

 

[NY JETS]

some even have the link in thier signature and dont have to do anything besides act like a normal user there link will be ther anyway.

That's a dead giveaway to flag immediately; if it doesn't say sponsored supplier under their name then no link should be there.

 

[lordmage]

yes i agree which is why i bring it up maybe even disable the link ability any where till a user has more than 15 post or even a higher number is required along with the thread creation number being higher make it harder for spammers to spam ad they may not even bother

 

[ZambucaLu]

Yes, we do need to have a debate about multiple accounts. Should we just make them forbidden and ban any member found to have them instantly?

I'm not sure what legitimate reason anyone could have to have multiple accounts.

I don't see any reason for it either. I "caught" a member here who created a second account just to start trouble. I think these are the ones we need to look at....new usernames coming in just to cause disruption.

I mean, as the system is set up now, there is no easy way to track multiple users on one IP unless we specifically look for it (which is what happened recently). I think households on one IP are okay unless, of course, we see that one of them is causing trouble, or spamming, whatever....then we need to look into it further.

So new members....using lots of links....or a lot of one liners (trying to build post count to start other threads).....or starting off first posts which just seem to be "pot stirring"....I think these are all signs to look for. And as I mentioned before, I see some are now joining but not posting the spam for like a month. They are getting trickier but I think if we all keep our eyes open....we stand a better chance of catching them earlier than later.

Another thing I see....when someone is banned, they reregister with a different IP. Again, I don't know how we could prevent this other than to just keep an eye out for new usernames. Many times, they don't even post in the newbs forum but just jump into an ongoing conversation.

I once thought about a moderation process for new members. Simply, their first post is moderated and released as approved. However, with the number of new members we have here daily, that would take a lot of "manpower". I mean, it's not impossible...but it would definitely take some work. And if the post was not appropriate for the forum, the member could be informed of that and the post not allowed.

At the very least, I think the rules need to be updated that multiple accounts are not allowed and if there is an extenuating circumstance, SJ (or a mod) needs to be contacted first for approval of the other accounts. And violators would be banned with no further question.

Lu

 

[e-pipeman]

Really there can be no legitimate reason for multiple accounts. Making them forbidden/banning culprits sounds right to me.

 

[katink]

The rules on my other e-smoking forum might be an idea... as a rule, one account per IP - more accounts can be allowed after contacting administrator or mod (we use that possibility for 'more members in one family' and also for suppliers wanting a 'personal account', though they only get to keep that until the first time they would 'do business' or even refer to that while using the personal account... that being a big no-no; in principal they shouldn't even tell they are a supplier, while on the personal account - this does give them a chance to 'be a person' and perhaps follow personal interests, completely outside of their business)

(Oops, more posts where made while typing, sorry for doubles that way)

 

[Princessdee]

some even have the link in thier signature and dont have to do anything besides act like a normal user there link will be ther anyway.

how about adding more verify steps to the reqisteration steps on the same ip. seprate emails,seprate phone,image verify as well.
step one verfy account thru emal, then text msg code and all with image vefy as well.
making it harder to secure account on the same ip would slow it down.
also the captica used would be random securing that it is a person posting and creating and not a bot.

Sorry for the noob question, but how is phone # related?
I NEVER put my real phone on any for that requires a phone. I just make one up. I don't want 100 calls on my cell (we don't have a land line) and I don't want anyone wasting my time with stoopid telemarketer calls.

 

[e-pipeman]

As Kate said earlier, one account per person. Anything else is asking for trouble imho.

 

[Ivisi]

As Kate said earlier, one account per person. Anything else is asking for trouble imho.

Personally, I have 17 email addresses. Of course, all but two I use for testing purposes, and I have one I've deemed for personal use and one for business. But theoretically, I can create 17 different users on this forum. Even if you were to implement IP address limitations, I could still get away with it, as I have access to enough unique IP's to get around that limitation.

Now, though, if you implement an IP address limitation, you are now automatically excluding any household that has more than one legitimate user and shares an Internet connection through either a single PC or a shared connection through a firewall device. You are also excluding any users that work together at the same company and share the same Internet access, yet try and participate in the forum.

What I'm getting at is, if someone really wants to bypass your security features, they will. What you will be doing, in effect, is hindering legitimate users from accessing your site. I think the most appropriate action would be to educate your users on what to watch for, and report as needed when something fishy is spotted. If you make it too difficult for a new user to register and begin participating, then legitimate users won't use the site.

Of course, this is just my $0.02, and I am far from an authority on just how prevelent spammers have been on here, which I guess makes me lucky in a way.

Ivisi

 

[e-pipeman]

You have a good point - but this forum is growing so quickly that I feel "one account per person" is the only practical way to go. It may not be entirely fair, but it is practical - and sometimes that has to be the best answer.

 

[gep]

This was my thought on the subject from the closed thread:

A "clause" can be added to the rules that says "at the forum owner's discretion an account can be cancelled at any time if that acccount is suspected of being a spam account". Then deal with it on a case by case basis.

 

[Jules22871]

If it is going to be only one acct per household then I guess I'll just have to leave. Like I said, we have 3 vapers and 4 PC's in this house and the one acct ruling would effectively stop them from participating.

Since it seems the majority are for the one acct per person, which breaks down to one acct per household, I guess I'll just have to thank everyone for their help, say goodbye and keep the 3 yearly donations that we were planning to make once all of us had joined. I wish everyone the best!

 

[e-pipeman]

If it is going to be only one acct per household then I guess I'll just have to leave. Like I said, we have 3 vapers and 4 PC's in this house and the one acct ruling would effectively stop them from participating.

Since it seems the majority are for the one acct per person, which breaks down to one acct per household, I guess I'll just have to thank everyone for their help, say goodbye and keep the 3 yearly donations that we were planning to make once all of us had joined. I wish everyone the best!

Well,you could all contribute on one account. That would be great.

 

[Kate]

One person to one account isn't the same as one person per address. The only time addresses matter is if spamming or trolling abuse is going on.

Saying in the rules one account per person and enforcing order aren't the same. People mostly self police if they are clear about what's acceptable. Malicious users will be a minority and shouldn't be too hard to track down.

 

[ZambucaLu]

I think what we need to keep in mind is the goal we are trying to achieve is to get rid of the spammers and those trying to disrupt the forum.

I see quite a few members here are on the "family plan" (including moderator Walrus)....and I haven't seen any problems with those accounts.

It's the ones who create multiple accounts for use in some deceitful way...those are the ones we want to eliminate.

Obviously there is no easy way to do this BUT one step I can take is to check IPs when we see a problem poster. As others have said, this may not be totally foolproof either as some will just use a different IP address...but it's at least one step.

I think the rest we are going to have to, as a group, keep an eye out for. I think the longer you are here, the easier they are to pick out because as people get to know each other, they know how other members interact here.

But I'm telling you...they are getting sneakier (than we have been used to anyway). They are carrying on conversations but again, a couple of things to watch out for are link postings, and "pot stirring"....particularly by a brand new member.

Most links posted by members here are well known suppliers....not unknowns that someone may be a spammer for....or an affiliate/supplier in disguise.

I guess all I can say right now is just watch for low post counts promoting sites nobody's ever heard of. Again, that may not be indicative of a spammer but from experience, in most cases it has been.

I just asked someone straight out on a thread if they were a supplier/affiliate. 3 posts...3 links...sounds "spammy" to me. Let's see what they say and how they continue to post.

Really, what are our (reasonable) alternatives at this point?

Lu

 

[Kate]

It's good for us to have discussions like this because if we are aware of what you think are problems we are more likely to be useful to helping you keep things together.

I almost always report users that I think are suspect although I worry sometimes that I'm overreacting. It's better safe than sorry and the more we keep our eyes open the better things will be for all of us.

 

[Elendil]

It's good for us to have discussions like this because if we are aware of what you think are problems we are more likely to be useful to helping you keep things together.

I almost always report users that I think are suspect although I worry sometimes that I'm overreacting. It's better safe than sorry and the more we keep our eyes open the better things will be for all of us.

Unfortunately, the burden of proof required here is significantly less than required in a court of law (U.S. at least, not sure about UK legal system). You bring up a good point about overreacting. I for one would be pretty ticked if I was accused just on the basis of having multiple accounts coming off the same IP (for all the valid reasons already outlined here).

It is a difficult line to walk between being a friendly, inviting forum(which this is, at least currently) and jumping to conclusions too quickly because our paranoia gets the best of us............