Australian law and how long until they changed?

[beastieboy72]

As I understand it, there is no legislation in Australia regarding vaping in public etc?
The law prohibits the sale of eliquid containing nicotine. But you can import it from overseas for personal use. Which I find astounding. The postage costs then make a cheap alternative not so cheap. I guess if the government were to legislate it, they would tax it at the same rate as tobacco products and it would then not be the cheap alternative to cigarettes it is now.
With more people getting on the vaping train I wonder how long until they (the government) see it as a money making enterprise? And start to tax it.

 

[Glenn_K]

Greetings, welcome to the forum.

There are a number of Aussie vapers on ECF, and hopefully some of them will join this thread and answer your question.

In Canada, where I believe we have fairly similar parliamentary and legal systems, we're pretty much in a grey zone. Technically it's against the law to sell e-liquid containing nicotine, but Health Canada has done nothing more meaningful than send out threatening letters to a couple B&Ms.

I don't think there's any imminent danger of the plug being pulled, but I wouldn't want to be investing tens of thousands of dollars in a new vape shop just now (if I had that kind of $$$$ to invest, that is).

-- Glenn

 

[JaRod]

As I understand it, there is no legislation in Australia regarding vaping in public etc?
The law prohibits the sale of eliquid containing nicotine. But you can import it from overseas for personal use. Which I find astounding. The postage costs then make a cheap alternative not so cheap. I guess if the government were to legislate it, they would tax it at the same rate as tobacco products and it would then not be the cheap alternative to cigarettes it is now.
With more people getting on the vaping train I wonder how long until they (the government) see it as a money making enterprise? And start to tax it.

Can you get locally non nicotine juices? if so maybe its feasible to import x amount of pure nicotine and add it to your juices, of course doing all the necessary research about how to safely handle nicotine mixes etc.
An alternative would be to recruit more local vapers and import larger quantities of e juice, so to dilute postage costs a little....just trying to help

 

[beastieboy72]

Thanks Glenn. There has been a recent crackdown on people selling nicotine eliquid here, there are a few markets and shops in my local area who sell it under the counter. Its just cheap Chinese stuff and the charge up go $15 for 15mls.
I am concerned once our greedy government see an opportunity to make more money they will jump on it as they always do.
Hopefully there is no major changes to laws here soon, as this is such a great and (hopefully) safer way to quite smoking.

 

[beastieboy72]

Yes JaRod, we can purchase non nic liquid locally. To try and keep costs down I have been buying unflavored pg/vg with nic from overseas and blending it with locally bought concentrates.
It would be so much easier if we could purchase nic juice locally. We can live in the hope that one day our government will see the light. (Yeah right!)

 

[Razorvapy]

Yes JaRod, we can purchase non nic liquid locally. To try and keep costs down I have been buying unflavored pg/vg with nic from overseas and blending it with locally bought concentrates.
It would be so much easier if we could purchase nic juice locally. We can live in the hope that one day our government will see the light. (Yeah right!)

Australian law and how long until they changed? I fear a lot sooner than you may like and Unfortunately not the way you are hoping for.

 

[beastieboy72]

That is my concern. The more people which take it up (which is a great thing) the more topical it will become. Making it morr likely to be legislated. Resulting in prices skyrocketing.

 

[nair]

As I understand it, there is no legislation in Australia regarding vaping in public etc?
The law prohibits the sale of eliquid containing nicotine. But you can import it from overseas for personal use. Which I find astounding. The postage costs then make a cheap alternative not so cheap. I guess if the government were to legislate it, they would tax it at the same rate as tobacco products and it would then not be the cheap alternative to cigarettes it is now.
With more people getting on the vaping train I wonder how long until they (the government) see it as a money making enterprise? And start to tax it.

I think something is afoot ..


Here's why:


Yesterday I received an email from "GreenSmoke" of California -

Hi ********, Thanks for choosing Green Smoke! We greatly value and appreciate your business. Since 2009, we’ve been shipping our product to Australia. However, after a company-wide review of international operations, Australia was flagged as a country to which we can no longer send our products.

Starting Tuesday, June 24th, 2014, Green Smoke will stop shipping to Australia.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience this might cause. It saddens us greatly that we can’t provide service to you after next week. If you've got questions or concerns (even if you just want to vent!), please don’t hesitate to contact our Customer Care team: (LINK) | 888-224-1345

Thanks, Paul Steinberg Head of Customer Service Green Smoke, Inc.

I wrote back -

What are we to do ?


Why would "GreenSmoke" forsake us and our business this way ?


We pay allot for shipping but we are prepared to do so. Please could you explain this decision to me.

??


The Australian Government (in an alleged initiative to reduce the financial burden of tobacco related illness to the Australian public health service) introduced very heavy taxes on tobacco products here and I mean HEAVY (the price of a packet of Marlboro 20's now being around 25 USD).
The recent advent of atomisers and vapor cigaretts saw a massive reduction to this tobacco tax revenue to the Australian Government (I'm talking about a litteral 341 million dollar a year reduction). As such, the government here has steadily tried (more and more successfully) to limit the sale of e-cigs within Australia. Now atomisers, e-cigs and e liquids may only be sold (in Australia) WITHOUT nicotine.
I and other recent converts saw this as a deliberate move by the Australian Government to get people back on to tobacco and renew the Australian Federal Governments massive tax boost, (many, many hundreds of millions of dollars a year)
For many of us, international companies like "GreenSmoke" are (were) our only hope of actually staying off tobacco.


Is this really an internal decision within "GreenSmoke" or has the Australian or US Federal Governments had a hand in this decision? Has some new law or legislation effected "GreenSmoke" and caused this decision to come about. Has something made it too costly to do business with Australians and if so what is it??


Any information you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated..


Thank you.

"GreenSmoke" wrote back -

Emma Kay (Green Smoke® E-Cigarettes)
Jun 18 11:27
Dear *********,
Thank you for contacting Green Smoke customer care!
I understand that this must be frustrating, and honestly wish that we could continue shipping to Australia. However, due to local importing laws, we will stop shipping Green Smoke products from June 24th. You are welcome to place an order up until, and including, June 23rd.
Once again, we truly apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for being a loyal customer.
Wishing you the best of luck!

Thanks,
Emma Kay, Customer Care Specialist
Green Smoke LLC
Website: (links)
Phone: 888-224-1345 | 0800-098-8213
Fax: 866-214-3154

Perhaps the sky is finally falling

 

[lorie]

That does seem overly cautious though since the only legal action being publicly spoken about is the WA e-cig seller court case. Hmmm I am speculating here. Maybe they know something we don't or maybe they are just being alarmist or perhaps they have been implicated in a sale to an Australian that contained more than 3 months supply of nic for a single user (the import limit). I suppose they don't want parcels sent by them seized by customs and have their name implicated. (There have been some nic sellers in eastern Australia who have been charged with selling nic so I have heard). I am really dreaming up ideas here lol So perhaps they were previously exporting large quantities to single customers and have had items seized.

 

[lorie]

Something is definitely afoot legislation-wise and Vince (the e-cig seller -owner of Heavenly Vapours in the West Australian (WA) court case) lost the appeal made by the West Australian Health Department. See the website "gofundme com /Ecigs-Our-Right-to-Choose" (broken link- remove the spaces ). I have been one of several hundred following his case as it has enormous implications for our future. If Vince does not launch an appeal against his court case then a precedent has been made which will effectively shut down e-cig vendors in Western Australia. Other states would likely follow.

However IF e-cigs get accepted as health aids and not health threats then we will be taxed outrageously no doubt. This "unhealthy e-cig" notion came from one non-smoking professor, Pro Chapman who heads the Cancer Council of Australia. He wrote a front page article for the CCA stating e-cigs were a bad example for children, see here: space between links "cancer.org.au/news/blog/prevention/extreme-caution-needed-on-electronic-cigarettes" ...no statistical research was quoted, no unbiased critique in any way.. just scaremongering. He completely ignored the worldwide views of the WHO (World Health Organisation).
It is believed that the WA Health department acted on that silly article.

I spent last month writing a reply to that ridiculous article and sending Vince donations. After all, I ~had spent less money on real cigs since I started vaping and I want to continue vaping. I can no longer afford $120 per week for smokes and also risk dying as a result of the carcinogens.

I take heart from the fact 120 Aussie scientists sent a letter to the WHO last week contradicting professor Chapman and informing the WHO that cigarette companies had been buying up some e-cig companies in an effort to control sales. "smh.com.au /nsw/experts-warn-world-health-organisation-to-stay-strong-on-ecigarettes-20140616-zs8wq. html" (remove spaces). Pharmaceutical companies are also invested in sales of nic replacements so they too want e-cigs outlawed. It is a case of David (we e-cig users and vendors) and Goliath (controlling cigarette companies, government taxation offices, pharmaceutical profiteering monsters and all the collusion that goes on between the 3 .. if u know the story lol. I'll wager we will lose.

 

[Va8pn4less]

Oh man, I could see this happening in NY. $25 stones for a pack marlboro's? holy cow. We are at $11-12 in the city. Trust me its a money grab. If everyone stopped or cut back smoking where are they going to get 1 billion in tobacco revenue? E cigs will be the next revenue source no doubt, so far no legislation. The just outlowed our Native American lands within the NY state on selling tax free smokes by going after the source banning the travel and distribution through NY lands. Shipping is also illegal. So now they can only sell Native brand smokes. I'm so glad we quit.