Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[bluecat]

As I've stated in another clone debate thread....

I long for the day where (Star Trek like) replicators are all around us, or really advanced 3D printers. Then it'll be cloning galore and the need for whatever products your current company produces (and sells) will be gone.

And if you are in the services industry, then let iRobot handle that. Who needs silly humans anyways?
(I think it's almost time to launch Skynet)

Skynet is wimpy.. I prefer their clone OCP.

 

[Circa Survivor]

I bought my Provari for $20. Comes with a lifetime warranty. I've only had to replace it about 7 times so far in 3 years.

I know you're taking a shot at cheap clones. If you have had to replace a clone more than once than you're doing it wrong and should give up.

 

[bluecat]

I bought my Provari for $20. Comes with a lifetime warranty. I've only had to replace it about 7 times so far in 3 years.

You bought the wrong Provari. Mine cost 10-25 bucks and still go strong for 2+ years.

The P3 caught my eye though. I may get one.. if I hold myself off for a week or so my temptation usually leaves. I have had a Provari in a cart 4 times now. I have had a Protovapor XPV in the cart twice... I never end up pulling the trigger.

 

[Jman8]

I know you're taking a shot at cheap clones. If you have had to replace a clone more than once than you're doing it wrong and should give up.

It's not a clone. It's the device I use, and comes with lifetime warranty.

And it's a metal tube with a button on it, or what I like to call "my Provari."

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well, steel is an alloy, there are lots of steels, thousands of steels to be close to correct. More are developed as the need for differing qualities come into being.

Each grade has what amounts to a recipe, at least this much of a couple elements and not more than a few others with iron generally taking up the remainder.

To say that all 304 steel is the same is an illusion to the reality of how things work in the real world. Low quality 304 aside high quality 304 is going to result in very obvious differences.

SciTech Connect: Metallurgical evaluation of recycled stainless steel

Is just one paper that speaks to how a grade of steel meets minimum specs but isn't really good for all applications needing that type of steel.

Basically this paper says the steels tested are kinda junky versions of the standard. Sort of like that guy that comes to work and does just enough to not get fired, yep that's this in a nutshell.

Maurice

Duh.. But it is still 304 or 316. Somewhere back in this thread is someone who claimed that the steel used wasnt 'real' 304 or 316, when it is. Even recycled. As I said in my post, the exact composition will vary, but the minimums are a standard.
'
Doesnt matter anyways as you or I have no clue if the stainless steal used in an 'original' is from recycled stock or not anyways...

 

[Midniteoyl]

From VapingwithTwisted420 September 14 facebook page

Maurice

along with working with customs to find these products before they even leave china and confiscate them for evidence.

And the second quote is what started this debate.. Can Customs actually do anything since a Trademark must first be registered in the US for US Customs to be able to stop the import of infringing goods. At this point in time, I say 'No'. If and when the OEMs actually claim their Mark and do what they have to do to register them, then that will change.

The rest we have been discussing is just side debates for a little fun and knowledge

 

[Midniteoyl]

Place yourself in this scenario:

You work for a large company that designed and produces a product. Heck you even helped design the product.You depend on your employment for your families financial security and your retirement planning. Life is good but then China decides to grab one of your products and makes a clone of your companies product and markets it at half the cost and tax free. China floods the market and their sales soar because of the price and after all this is a free market economy, right? All of a sudden your employment is terminated due to lack of sales and the company closes. As a consumer of the cloned product you may have benefited short-term from the cost savings you realized but in the long run what was the impact?

Picture this: I design a product. I Patent that product (if I can). I register a copyright on the design. I register my Trademark. I make sure my design is out first.

Simple, no?

 

[Midniteoyl]

for all you clone haters out there, where is you sense of 'helping others in need'.

If you realized just how many people live in china, you would be supporting the clone movement.

These hard working people need jobs too, and there are so many of them. Buying chinese clones is one of the best ways for you to support the 'working man' in china ... Remember, he (or she) has a family to support too, and if he has no job, there is no unemployment insurance in china to fall back on (like we have here in the us).

Show mr wang, and mr chin, and ms yong, and mrs wu that you here in the united states support there effort in bringing quality chinese products to the hungry us market.

lmao

......

 

[Midniteoyl]

Clones are an easy way to mimic having earned success in a world where it is increasingly difficult to actually do so.

Maurice

Your elitism is starting to show... Though I do agree its getting harder to succeed..

 

[JMarca]

Sad thing is people actually think they honor copyright law in China, even if it were true that these "shot caller" people were getting into China the government would laugh them into a jail cell just for coming into the country trying to make demands.


You will never stop clones in China, EVER!
You can try to stop the middle man here in the US and in some cases people have been successful at that.
But remember if we cut out all the middlemen (us) then what are you left with? A direct sale from China directly to your doorstep (ala Fasttech), I seriously think we just need to accept the clones and realize there's a market for both clones and authentics.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

If your success depends on my spending my money on you, you should cater to my needs. I as a consumer do not and will not cater to your needs as a manufacturer. If you as a manufacturer cannot or will not produce what a high percentage of vapors are looking for.. that isn't my problem as a consumer. I work with my clients to make sure their needs are met in price and in the job I do. My price is average.. it isn't high end and it isn't low end. We often joke that we should double our fees. Why? because we will lose half our clients and work less yet still retain the other half and make the same amount. We haven't but looks like that is your philosophy. Yet then get mad when some one goes elsewhere with their purchasing dollar.

It is nothing like a CC.

It is nothing like an allowance. Heck I can't even get my kids up to do chores. The way I do it is to take money away from them if they do not do a chore.

Use the USA card. Use the authentic card. Use the taking money from hard working Americans.. I see a path there.

I get told many times that I only put a number there. I respond with a smile and say yes, but I know where the number goes.

The reason you can't get your kids up to do a chore is a result of the problem I speak of.

You take money away, is that money they already earned? Or is it taking away money they could earn? Either way you are fighting a losing battle with those methods.

Maurice

 

[Midniteoyl]

China Unemployment Rate | 2002-2014 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast

You need to take a look at this, Philippines (6.7%) and the United States (6.1%) have a higher unemployment rate than China (4.1%), Greece has an insane unemployment rate of (27%) home of the Nemesis and Portugal sits at a very high (13.9%) home of the Caravela.

China is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the US in under a decade. They are already the number one exporter in the world with the US taking second place in exports of which we export just 68.1% of what China does in terms of US dollar value.

Do a little research on what you are supporting. China is doing exceptionally well as a whole, better than most of the world in fact.

Maurice

I do believe he was joking..

However, me or you buying a Nemesis is in absolutely no way gonna help Greece and its flaw policies.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Still, I feel that Provari comes closer to justifying the asking price than the majority of $200+ authentic shiny tubes. ( no, I don't own one ).

I agree.. a lot more thought and work went into making these than a simple mech drawn up on a napkin at the local collage Friday night party

 

[Midniteoyl]

Of course an accurate clone works just as well as an authentic why wouldn't it?



Authentic devices cost more, thus require a higher level of success in earning power to attain, similarly the performance of such devices is only attainable if you have earned a certain measure of success.

Copies, clones, counterfeits all undermine this reward system of success by allowing people to reward themselves similarly for doing less.

It is something like a credit card that allows you to buy something prior to actually earning the money. Or loans that allow you to buy a house or car or what have you, all without actually having worked to earn what you are using. Or like giving a child their allowance prior to them doing their chores.

It is a problem of huge magnitude, the whole give me my reward now, I'll work it off later maybe.

Maurice

But what if I bought all Originals on my credit card? I mean, I now have Originals to show my 'success' but I still didnt actually do anything to 'earn' them.

Your logic is flawed.

Im gonna go bankrupt now and have my Originals for FREE! Ya! Lookee me! I have all Originals! I made it in this world! Yay!

 

[Kendogalopigus]

Maybe I'm missing something... Has anyone EVER bought a clone to try to pass it off as an original? Most seem pretty open about the fact that they bought a cheap clone.

In my experience, it seems more that people tend to buy clones because despite what most people want to believe, clones DO tend to perform just as well as their authentic counterparts, and the authentics have a KNOWN reputation.

was hanging out at my local shop, finished off the flavor i was vaping but i felt lazy and the shop rewicks for free so i asked the guy there to do it, he looked at the 002 on my stingray x clone and his eyes got big and he asked "is this an authentic" i laughed and said no its a clone lol. im happy to say its a clone esp if there is someone standing there with the authentic, cause i got it $190 cheaper and it performs the same.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Sad thing is people actually think they honor copyright law in China, even if it were true that these "shot caller" people were getting into China the government would laugh them into a jail cell just for coming into the country trying to make demands.


You will never stop clones in China, EVER!
You can try to stop the middle man here in the US and in some cases people have been successful at that.
But remember if we cut out all the middlemen (us) then what are you left with? A direct sale from China directly to your doorstep (ala Fasttech), I seriously think we just need to accept the clones and realize there's a market for both clones and authentics.

Yep.. a point I was thinking of also. Just what would happen to all the jobs here in the US if selling foreign made goods, 'clones', or 'knockoffs' where actually banned? US made products only?

Buy American! Only 50% unemployment. It'll sale to the 'elite', though.

 

[Kendogalopigus]

But what if I bought all Originals on my credit card? I mean, I now have Originals to show my 'success' but I still didnt actually do anything to 'earn' them.

Your logic is flawed.

Im gonna go bankrupt now and have my Originals for FREE! Ya! Lookee me! I have all Originals! I made it in this world! Yay!

this cracked me up lol

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I agree.. a lot more thought and work went into making these than a simple mech drawn up on a napkin at the local collage Friday night party

If you can solder and own a computer you can make a device that does exactly what a Provari does for way less than $200.

I'm not going to knock on the Provari, it is a quality device that tends to serve its owners well. For some vapers it is all they will ever need or desire, and that is a beautiful thing. I however can not get past the aesthetic of the device.

I personally will never own one. I certainly hope those that want one though do decide to go for it, if you like it its worth it I'm quite sure.

Maurice

 

[Midniteoyl]

If you can solder and own a computer you can make a device that does exactly what a Provari does for way less than $200.

I'm not going to knock on the Provari, it is a quality device that tends to serve its owners well. For some vapers it is all they will ever need or desire, and that is a beautiful thing. I however can not get past the aesthetic of the device.

I personally will never own one. I certainly hope those that want one though do decide to go for it, if you like it its worth it I'm quite sure.

Maurice

But, but, then you would be making a knockoff and not supporting the US worker and original maker!!

 

[Jman8]

Picture this: I design a product. I Patent that product (if I can). I register a copyright on the design. I register my Trademark. I make sure my design is out first.

Simple, no?

While submitting trademark and copyright applications on the design, hackers see what is being submitted, and make the same product minus your (stupid) logo. Their design was released first in country that you neglected to register with. When you go to market in country you are registered with, they flood that market with their clone product.

What's your next move?