Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Midniteoyl]

The US government is going to sue PRC companies who make knockoffs of American made mods, as long as the mod company has their name, design trademarked?

No, but they can stop the import and sale.. (I know, should be 'rampant' import and sale since they cant stop them all..) We went over all this before. You are still using the same arguments. I know these guys are new to the thread and didnt hear them coming from you before, but still, we did disprove and prove most of them already.

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Might be very true in many cases but no not in this house. I am very careful not to purchase things made in sweat shops. While I might miss something here and there how can one not in this day and age I am very careful about my purchasing choices.

Highly dubious claim is highly dubious.

 

[stevegmu]

Is then a Susan B. Anthony dollar the same thing as a Quarter?

Are all denominations of paper money the same?

There is no difference in these pairings other than the way the ink is printed on sheets of paper or the metal displaced under a die.

Of course we have all seen a number of switches, pins, magnets, tubes, and threading methods.

Your car has all these things so it must be a clone of my Nemesis

Maurice

I was making some industrial hose on my line at work last week. Extruded PVC core tube, turned it around, ran it through a glue bath, then braiding server, then put a sheath of PVC on it. I then turned that around, through the glue again, more nylon yarn braid through the server, then a final sheath of PVC. The end result- a very strong, lightweight 1/2 inch Id hose rated at 8000lb burst and 2400 lb working pressure rating. Looks like a standard garden hose, but the reality is it is far stronger, has a faster flow rate, higher burst and abrasion resistance than any garden hose on the market. The point is, sometimes a hose isn't just a hose... People who don't see uniqueness in authentic mods simply don't understand manufacturing processes. Sometimes that switch, airflow size or positioning or even materials used make a world of difference...

 

[stevegmu]

No, but they can stop the import and sale.. (I know, should be 'rampant' import and sale since they cant stop them all..) We went over all this before. You are still using the same arguments. I know these guys are new to the thread and didnt hear them coming from you before, but still, we did disprove and prove most of them already.

The US government can't even stop illegal drugs or humans from entering the country...

 

[Midniteoyl]

But again China does not respect the trademarks and if you think the price of authentic mods is high now imagine if they had to pay all the fees to trademark each design and as fast as this industry is growing by the time the patent or trademark was approved it would have already been counterfeited. It is up to us as consumers in this burgeoning industry to try and support the modders and innovators and the point is 50% of us do not.

You Trademark a name, logo, phrase, etc.. you copyright a design and patent a new idea, device, or improvement on an existing device.

So no, it doesnt costs to trademark 'each design'. We've already agreed a copyright exist. But, there are no Trademarks or patents when it comes to the ones we see cloned. Hana Trademarked their logo (smart move) as thus got to sue the sellers of the clones with thier logo and try to stop the importation of them. They could not, however, stop the sale or importation of the ones with no Logo.

 

[samcm010]

The government is not going to stop anything.. right or left they cant do anything effectively. That is why it is up to us as consumers in this young industry to do the right thing and support the originators and creators and not support theft of logos. I again go back to the real argument if a chinese company makes a design copy of the caravel and calls it the #8 out of cheaper materials using cheaper labor and the buyer is ok with the quality and labor issues I for one have no problem. However if that same chinese company makes the Caravel counterfeit using the exact logo and calling it a caravela or caravela clone there is where the issues come in.

 

[samcm010]

You Trademark a name, logo, phrase, etc.. you copyright a design and patent a new idea, device, or improvement on an existing device.

So no, it doesnt costs to trademark 'each design'. We've already agreed a copyright exist. But, there are no Trademarks or patents when it comes to the ones we see cloned. Hana Trademarked their logo (smart move) as thus got to sue the sellers of the clones with thier logo and try to stop the importation of them. They could not, however, stop the sale or importation of the ones with no Logo.

Yup on this we agree

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Its perceived value for money spent.. 'Too expensive' doesn't always mean 'can't afford'. I like value.. However, mine and yours definition of just what that point is where the cost exceeds the perceived value will be different.

I'm not buying your perceived value theory. You want the real thing, you just don't want to pay for it, so you facilitate the theft of it's design by paying someone else to steal it for you. This is no different than buying anything stolen, you'll pay less than market rate for it.

Your claim of can afford but will not afford reminds me of rich people who shoplift, not because they have any need to steal, they just do it because they don't want to pay.

It's all very wrong, very wrong.

Maurice

 

[smokinGAVIN]

I agree about the trademarks and patent but what about authentics from other countries? It's extremely difficult to get a patent and sometimes even to get a visa to go the country you wish to apply for a patent is difficult as well. There should be a way to get around this or some international patenting body to turn to.

 

[samcm010]

I was making some industrial hose on my line at work last week. Extruded PVC core tube, turned it around, ran it through a glue bath, then braiding server, then put a sheath of PVC on it. I then turned that around, through the glue again, more nylon yarn braid through the server, then a final sheath of PVC. The end result- a very strong, lightweight 1/2 inch Id hose rated at 8000lb burst and 2400 lb working pressure rating. Looks like a standard garden hose, but the reality is it is far stronger, has a faster flow rate, higher burst and abrasion resistance than any garden hose on the market. The point is, sometimes a hose isn't just a hose... People who don't see uniqueness in authentic mods simply don't understand manufacturing processes. Sometimes that switch, airflow size or positioning or even materials used make a world of difference...

Very Very Very good example

 

[samcm010]

I agree about the trademarks and patent but what about authentics from other countries? It's extremely difficult to get a patent and sometimes even to get a visa to go the country you wish to apply for a patent is difficult as well. There should be a way to get around this or some international patenting body to turn to.

Frankly I am not a big government guy so I do not see the governments of any country ever really helping innovators of any industry out in this regard. Hence why I feel it is so important for us as individuals to try and persuade others to see the value and importance of doing the right thing in their purchasing choices.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I justify it because I support creativity and originality and quality.. and you should be thanking me chances are you are using a clone whose idea was stolen from an Original I bought supporting the modder who created it. Chances are I will buy more authentic mods you will buy counterfeits of that would never have been created if I and other were not willing to buy the original

Dont assume... Its unbecoming and adds nothing to the debate.

 

[Midniteoyl]

And they make plenty of cheap clones. People want the design but don't want to pay full price. They don't care if it was based off someone else's design. That's the way it is. No need to turn your nose up at others. People like that turn potential vapers away from vaping and continue smoking.

He's not being a snob.. He said before he doesnt condone counterfeits, but also wont say anything to someone who has one.

 

[stevegmu]

The entitlement generation doesn't care...

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Dont assume... Its unbecoming and adds nothing to the debate.

It adds plenty. The humor factor.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Further how does one justify buying a product that was very likely made using child/ or ridiculously under paid labor.

I have seen no evidence of child labor, or that they are ridiculously underpaid.. Have you seen these industrial cities? They are pretty modern with costs of living that are about 10x what they are in the country and yet they still come to work and send money home.

 

[Midniteoyl]

you sir are a piece of work! Do you feel bad for the chinese worker making .50c a day or is that a wage you would be comfortable with? Or perhaps the children working in horrible conditions?

Again, assuming.


If 50 cents a day (way low, its actually much more) there buys what $100 does here, whats the difference? Remember also, a lot of stuff is already paid for as they are a Socialist country.

 

[samcm010]

I have seen no evidence of child labor, or that they are ridiculously underpaid.. Have you seen these industrial cities? They are pretty modern with costs of living that are about 10x what they are in the country and yet they still come to work and send money home.

Maybe and you are right I was making a statement not based on specific knowledge so in that regard I apologize.

 

[Midniteoyl]

There will always be risks but just think, if China keeps doing this and they probably will because the market supports it, the innovators may get tired of taking risks and just stop. What will happen to innovation?

Maybe a faster and more accessible patent system can cure this.

The patent system here is broke... Not only does it take forever to get one, you can get one for something already made then sue the original maker... Or, buy patents from other companies, then run around and threaten to sue unless they 'pay up'.. Its crazy I tell ya!

 

[Midniteoyl]

The US government can't even stop illegal drugs or humans from entering the country...

You're right.. but they can stop Apple or Samsung from selling a certain tablet

Priorities, right