B&M's Bad to Worse

[crxess]

Where does he say this ? What minute ?

I heard him say businesses that 'create or modify' these components are manufacturers, not those that sell them.

My take on 19:00 to 21:00

Engaging in making or modifying\combinations and a Business Selling Finished Products <MAY> not be a manufacturer.

My understanding of what he is attempting to Enforce within the UN-Clearly Defined Regulations.

Instructional installation of a Battery ( could ) Result in Manufacturing Status< according to his Loose definitions. (Making an alteration to the product as received)

 

[Mazinny]

My take on 19:00 to 21:00

Engaging in making or modifying\combinations and a Business Selling Finished Products <MAY> not be a manufacturer.

My understanding of what he is attempting to Enforce within the UN-Clearly Defined Regulations.

Instructional installation of a Battery ( could ) Result in Manufacturing Status< according to his Loose definitions. (Making an alteration to the product as received)

I think you are reading too much into it. If you make or combine liquids or do any modding for direct sale to consumers, you are a manufacturer subject to registration, product listing etc ( e.g. Halo, Johnson Creek, Vapershark, Reos ) ... Otherwise you are just a retailer, not that it really matters, if there are no approved products for you to sell, come Aug 2018 or Aug 2019 !

 

[evan le'garde]

Aren't there disclaimers that could be used. Such as "Not for use with tobacco derivitives". Or "not to be used to vapourize nicotine". Is that a basic legal work around. Printing stuff like that on the packaging ?.

They have said that claims of tobacco cessation regarding these products isn't allowed or should be classed as medicinal which means that any of these products which are manufactured for the use of vapourizing nicotine have to be registered.

So what if these products are re branded ?.

Could probably get away with branding them as something as stupid as a water vapourizer and get away with it. Just as long as they're not meant for vapourizing nicotine it should be ok, right ?.

We read manufacturers disclaimers all the time. Covering legal requirements for their products simply by printing literature on the packaging.

 

[evan le'garde]

So a basic bottle of e liquid could be re-branded as anything you like. Just as long as it says "not to be used orally" on the label.

Or something like that.

 

[evan le'garde]

Cutomers can do what they want with the product once they own it, and that isn't illegal.

So it seems to me it's just a case of how manufacturers and retailers brand it.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Cutomers can do what they want with the product once they own it, and that isn't illegal.

So it seems to me it's just a case of how manufacturers and retailers brand it.

Nope that is covered.

 

[dionysuskiss]

Cutomers can do what they want with the product once they own it, and that isn't illegal.

So it seems to me it's just a case of how manufacturers and retailers brand it.

I think it would still fall under "intended use". Just like 0mg has to be labeled a "tobacco product ".

 

[Izan]

And at some point.................

^^^^^ I don't think we have the "stones" to do that again^^^^^

It DID happen again.
...and again, it's NOT about the consumers.

The united states of the East India Trading Company...
HEY! History DOES repeat it's self.

The WE (us) have NEVER been in a position of power. EVER.

Ain't history cool?
Cheers
I

 

[bnrkwest]

I think it would still fall under "intended use". Just like 0mg has to be labeled a "tobacco product ".

What I don't get is, if someone vapes zero Nic, always has, and somehow they are now using a tobacco product makes no sense. If they want to regulate Nic I can understand that if it is from tobacco, but even then, how about Nic from say eggplant, they can't say that is tobacco. It is so crazy. Makes no sense.

 

[Jdurand]

What I don't get is, if someone vapes zero Nic, always has, and somehow they are now using a tobacco product makes no sense. If they want to regulate Nic I can understand that if it is from tobacco, but even then, how about Nic from say eggplant, they can't say that is tobacco. It is so crazy. Makes no sense.

If this all made sense, there wouldn't be a hundred threads concerning how confused and in disbelief we all are.

 

[Vaping2Live]

Although I don't buy a lot of stuff at B&M's, it will be sad to see them go. There are a few in my area that have decent blends and nice lounges. Staff is very knowledgeable and helpful. It's nice to drive down streets and see Vape Shop banners and signs. The worst part - people loosing their jobs and businesses...

 

[Jdurand]

Although I don't buy a lot of stuff at B&M's, it will be sad to see them go. There are a few in my area that have decent blends and nice lounges. Staff is very knowledgeable and helpful. It's nice to drive down streets and see Vape Shop banners and signs. The worst part - people loosing their jobs and businesses...

Thank goodness the government is doing all they can in the job creation market.

 

[Robmidi]

Reagan's perfect government quote: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" [sarcastic emphasis added]. [emoji107]

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

[mattiem]

Although I don't buy a lot of stuff at B&M's, it will be sad to see them go. There are a few in my area that have decent blends and nice lounges. Staff is very knowledgeable and helpful. It's nice to drive down streets and see Vape Shop banners and signs. The worst part - people loosing their jobs and businesses...

Thank goodness the government is doing all they can in the job creation market.

yep, had this message in my inbox this morning:

Just three weeks into my presidency, I made a promise to the people of Elkhart, Indiana.

It was the first city I visited as President. Folks there had been hit harder by the recession than almost anywhere else in America. The unemployment rate was on its way to nearly twenty percent. Companies that had sustained that community for years were shedding jobs at an alarming speed -- and hardworking families were losing their homes and health care along with those jobs.

When I spoke to the people of Elkhart in February of 2009, I promised them that if we worked together, we could pull that community and this country out of the depths of recession -- that we could not only recover, but put ourselves on a better, stronger course.

Today, thanks to the hard work of people in Elkhart and in communities across the country, America has recovered from crisis and we’re on the cusp of resurgence.

do any of y'all think we are on the cusp of resurgence

 

[crxess]

I think you are reading too much into it. If you make or combine liquids or do any modding for direct sale to consumers, you are a manufacturer subject to registration, product listing etc ( e.g. Halo, Johnson Creek, Vapershark, Reos ) ... Otherwise you are just a retailer, not that it really matters, if there are no approved products for you to sell, come Aug 2018 or Aug 2019 !

Perhapr Mazinny, and again, I am not trying to Create panic or great any Big arguments on point of Regulation. This is simply how I am reading Mitch Zellers Zig Zag Mumble Speak on the Matter and his Clear comment on Shops only selling FINISHED PRODUCTS(WHO/FDA approved ENDS - most likely)

I think it would still fall under "intended use". Just like 0mg has to be labeled a "tobacco product ".

Actually I am in Hopes one of these Groups will go into Court with Inclusion of Definition of Vaping in their list of Complaints against the FDA.

Facts: I had not heard of Vaping before 2012 after Months of searching for a way to stop smoking.
After other avenues Fell through, I accidentally found out about Vapor Products. First actual Hits on Google Revealed DIET PLANS using a Vaporized Flavoring to Curb Appetite. NO MENTION of NICOTINE USE.
At that Time I also Stumbled on Other <UNMENTIONABLES> being used in a form of VAPING oils.

The FDA may have a chance of convencing the Courts Nicotine From Tobacco is Tobacco, however their Assumption that the Function of Vaping is Specifically for Inhalation of Nicotine(from Tobacco) is Fundamentally Flawed and Vaping/Vapor should not fall under FDA - Tobacco Control. Only - If Court Sanctioned - Inhaled Nicotine(From Tobacco)

One Battle at a time!

 

[crxess]

yep, had this message in my inbox this morning:



do any of y'all think we are on the cusp of resurgence

Today, thanks to the hard work of people in Elkhart and in communities across the country, America has recovered from crisis and we’re on the cusp of resurgence.

Sorry, but Vaping aside I Nominate this as the LIE of the Decade Century.
This Country cannot survive on More Fast Food and Walmart Stores or Forced Purchases(Private Sector Corporate for Profit Insurance Policies)

 

[mattiem]

Sorry, but Vaping aside I Nominate this as the LIE of the Decade Century.
This Country cannot survive on More Fast Food and Walmart Stores or Forced Purchases(Private Sector Corporate for Profit Insurance Policies)

I second that nomination !!!!!!!!!

 

[Mazinny]

Perhapr Mazinny, and again, I am not trying to Create panic or great any Big arguments on point of Regulation. This is simply how I am reading Mitch Zellers Zig Zag Mumble Speak on the Matter and his Clear comment on Shops only selling FINISHED PRODUCTS(WHO/FDA approved ENDS - most likely)

Actually I am in Hopes one of these Groups will go into Court with Inclusion of Definition of Vaping in their list of Complaints against the FDA.

I highly recommend listening to this interview ( long but well worth it if you have the time ) with Azim Chowdhuri from Keller and Heckman, the lead attorney from the upcoming 'industry lawsuit'. He specializes in FDA law and has been involved in vape technology since 2009. Likely the most knowledgeable person on the details of the deemings. Start from min. 12

LIVE

I think it would still fall under "intended use". Just like 0mg has to be labeled a "tobacco product ".

Omg liquids were not the intended product for the required " tobacco product " labeling, actual tobacco with the nicotine removed, was. That is not to say that 0mg liquid could not be considered a 'component', if it is intended to be mixed with nicotine. Convoluted, i know, and how the FDA will judge ones intent is beyond me, but the distinction is important.

 

[Mazinny]

What I don't get is, if someone vapes zero Nic, always has, and somehow they are now using a tobacco product makes no sense. If they want to regulate Nic I can understand that if it is from tobacco, but even then, how about Nic from say eggplant, they can't say that is tobacco. It is so crazy. Makes no sense.

If tobacco is extracted from eggplant, or if it is synthetically produced, it does not need to be declared a tobacco product. They may go after it as an 'unapproved drug' though. Remember, the FDA wanted nicotine to be regulated as a drug originally, and atomizers and mods as drug delivery devices. They lost the Sottera lawsuit, and are regulating it as a "tobacco product". This was not their first choice !

 

[bnrkwest]

Nicotine is nicotine chemically, we have nicotine receptors in our brain, foods have nicotine. FDA has latched onto tobacco nicotine but really when they talk about using oral nicotine it is a slippery slope unless they want to regulate tomatoes, cauliflower, eggplant, peppers etc. They are all oral use products that contain nicotine. They really can't regulate all nicotine use as much as they want too. But they can regulate tobacco.