Ban Juul, not vaping

[GOMuniEsq]

Kids are trying to kill themselves. They take the greatest risks, seeking immediate reward with little thought toward consequences. It's amazing that any of us survive to maturity. And it's bizarre that anyone thinks we can legislate the risk out of their lives.

"All this was indispensably necessary," replied the one-eyed doctor, "for private misfortunes are public benefits; so that the more private misfortunes there are, the greater is the general good." —Voltaire

 

[bombastinator]

People have been doing that for years already. Adding alcohol to your juice safely is doable.

Adding a little bit is. The impression I got was he was talking about using just vodka. No other ingredients.

 

[Letitia]

Throat hit would discourage that quite rapidly I suspect.

 

[bombastinator]

Kids are trying to kill themselves. They take the greatest risks, seeking immediate reward with little thought toward consequences. It's amazing that any of us survive to maturity. And it's bizarre that anyone thinks we can legislate the risk out of their lives.

"All this was indispensably necessary," replied the one-eyed doctor, "for private misfortunes are public benefits; so that the more private misfortunes there are, the greater is the general good." —Voltaire

I personally would replace “trying to kill themselves” with something different as it implies a direct intention. “Stupiding themselves to death” might work, though of course there are also kids who commit intentional suicide. It’s not a new problem by any means. Minimizing risk to children has been one of the major long term goals of civilization for as long as it has been around. It’s been largely successful at it too. It will never get to zero though.

I still don’t believe the whole “it’s us or the kids!” Thing is accurate. Most of the bits that are actually being attacked have nothing to do with the actual problem.

If it is though “us” will lose and lose totally. “Women and children first” is still a thing in this society.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I still don’t believe the whole “it’s us or the kids!” Thing is accurate. Most of the bits that are actually being attacked have nothing to do with the actual problem.

I agree with you in this case. The whole "for the kids" thing is an obvious smokescreen meant to distract us into infighting. The actual problem is that vaping is being unjustly vilified by corrupt lawmakers.

 

[jandrew]

That I am angry about as well. Lack of empathy for dying kids is not required for this though. I am angry both that they are using the problem these kids are having to attempt to attack something that did not cause it AND I am angry that they are not attacking the problem that actually did.

I don't think it helps to continually refer to "dying kids" ... according to the CDC as of Oct 1, 16% of patients are under 18 --- and in terms of deaths: "The median age of deceased patients was 49.5 years and ranged from 27-71 years."

I certainly wouldn't want to trivialise the lung illness, or the fact that many youth and young people are sick with whatever this disease/illness is --- but there simply aren't a lot of (or any) "kids dying".

 

[Uncle Willie]

I don't think it helps to continually refer to "dying kids" ... according to the CDC as of Oct 1, 16% of patients are under 18 --- and in terms of deaths: "The median age of deceased patients was 49.5 years and ranged from 27-71 years."

I certainly wouldn't want to trivialise the lung illness, or the fact that many youth and young people are sick with whatever this disease/illness is --- but there simply aren't a lot of (or any) "kids dying".

Yep .. you beat me to it ..

 

[bombastinator]

I agree with you in this case. The whole "for the kids" thing is an obvious smokescreen meant to distract us into infighting. The actual problem is that vaping is being unjustly vilified by corrupt lawmakers.

By conflating it. IMHO The differentiation between THC systems, CBD systems, and (where we will likely disagree) protonated nic systems, need to be made. I do agree that protonated nic May very well not belong in the company of the other two. I’m currently liking @Baditude ’s posting of that grim green video using the term “open system vape” to differentiate.

 

[bombastinator]

I don't think it helps to continually refer to "dying kids" ... according to the CDC as of Oct 1, 16% of patients are under 18 --- and in terms of deaths: "The median age of deceased patients was 49.5 years and ranged from 27-71 years."

I certainly wouldn't want to trivialise the lung illness, or the fact that many youth and young people are sick with whatever this disease/illness is --- but there simply aren't a lot of (or any) "kids dying".

That number is a moving target that has been shifting upward. The initial victims were all children. I haven’t been following those numbers lately.

 

[gpjoe]

Do stupid things, get stupid prizes. I'm angry as hell that we're being played as the scapegoat.

Ok, you are so angry that you would sacrifice a family member to further the cause. Got it.

 

[jandrew]

That number is a moving target that has been shifting upward. The initial victims were all children. I haven’t been following those numbers lately.

Well, initial victims were "teens" ... actual ages weren't given (that I recall) so we don't know if they were "children" or 18 and 19 year olds. The number of victims has certainly climbed (over 1000 now), as has the number of deaths (18) --- but the number of "kids" deaths has remained zero.

 

[englishmick]

I don't think it helps to continually refer to "dying kids" ... according to the CDC as of Oct 1, 16% of patients are under 18 --- and in terms of deaths: "The median age of deceased patients was 49.5 years and ranged from 27-71 years."

I certainly wouldn't want to trivialise the lung illness, or the fact that many youth and young people are sick with whatever this disease/illness is --- but there simply aren't a lot of (or any) "kids dying".

I guess whoever does whatever is causing this gets sick, it's the older individuals with less robust lungs who pay the highest price.

 

[mgordon1100]

Ok, you are so angry that you would sacrifice a family member to further the cause. Got it.

Now I understand why you identify so much with the stupid people.

 

[iVapeDIY]

It wouldn't surprise me if some knucklehead tries to vape Vodka sometime.

See ...
Vodka and DIY ejuice

 

[bombastinator]

Well, initial victims were "teens" ... actual ages weren't given (that I recall) so we don't know if they were "children" or 18 and 19 year olds. The number of victims has certainly climbed (over 1000 now), as has the number of deaths (18) --- but the number of "kids" deaths has remained zero.

Zero. That’s a pretty significant digit there. Very very different than what seems to have been claimed or implied. I was under the impression that most or all of the sufferers were basically kids (yes you 19 year olds I consider you kids. I didn’t like it when I was that age and people my current age told me that but now that I am my current age I see their point). I guess there’s this weird period between about 16 and 25 that isn’t exactly kid but isn’t exactly full-on grownup either. In German there’s a form of address: ”Junger” which translates literally as “youth” that might apply better. I’m not German so I’m not sure.

 

[gpjoe]

Now I understand why you identify so much with the stupid people.

There it is.

 

[bombastinator]

Now I understand why you identify so much with the stupid people.

I’m not normally in the habit of defending @gpjoe , and while this might wind up being a damnation by faint praise, I feel moved to jump in.

IMHO the difference between a stupid person and a not stupid person is so fine as to nearly not matter. Frequently stupidity, ignorance, and quality of information are confused. People who have more information (of whatever quality) in one area tend to have less in another.
One thing the Red crowd seems to have made clear to the Blue crowd is that the information they get is less perfect than they think it is. That the reverse is more true (that while the Blue information is flawed it is still orders of magnitude less massively flawed than the Red information) doesn’t seem to be permeating the Red groups as well. Still, willful ignorance is not the same as stupidity, and there are similar numbers of willfully ignorant people on both sides.

 

[iVapeDIY]

Juul accused by U.S. school districts of creating vaping ‘nuisance’ - BNN Bloomberg

School districts in New York, Kansas and Missouri sued Juul Labs Inc. over the economic burden created by teen vaping, opening a new legal front as the U.S. grapples with a widening public-health crisis.

Officials of school districts in Long Island, New York; Johnson County, Kansas; and Missouri’s St. Charles County accused Juul of intentionally targeting teens with its product and creating a public nuisance with the health problems tied to vaping. The complaints filed in federal courts Monday make the same arguments local governments are using against opioid makers over a nationwide addiction epidemic.​

See also ...

• Two school districts sue Juul over vaping 'epidemic'
• Juul Is Sued by School Districts That Say Vaping Is a Dangerous Drain on Their Resources
• Two Midwest School Districts Join Lawsuit Wave Against Juul Over Vaping

 

[gpjoe]

I’m not normally in the habit of defending @gpjoe , and while this might wind up being a damnation by faint praise, I feel moved to jump in.

IMHO the difference between a stupid person and a not stupid person is so fine as to nearly not matter. Frequently stupidity, ignorance, and quality of information are confused. People who have more information (of whatever quality) in one area tend to have less in another.
One thing the Red crowd seems to have made clear to the Blue crowd is that the information they get is less perfect than they think it is. That the reverse is more true (that while the Blue information is flawed it is still orders of magnitude less massively flawed than the Red information) doesn’t seem to be permeating the Red groups as well. Still, willful ignorance is not the same as stupidity, and there are similar numbers of willfully ignorant people on both sides.

Hey, we may disagree, but I still respect your opinion, as with everyone here and I refrain from personal attacks.

 

[mgordon1100]

I’m not normally in the habit of defending @gpjoe , and while this might wind up being a damnation by faint praise, I feel moved to jump

While I agree with all you've said below this statement, I made my statement for a reason. Maybe not a very good reason, but a reason nonetheless. This man has been twisting my words since he began.