Ban Juul, not vaping

[jandrew]

Zero. That’s a pretty significant digit there. Very very different than what seems to have been claimed or implied. I was under the impression that most or all of the sufferers were basically kids (yes you 19 year olds I consider you kids. I didn’t like it when I was that age and people my current age told me that but now that I am my current age I see their point). I guess there’s this weird period between about 16 and 25 that isn’t exactly kid but isn’t exactly full-on grownup either. In German there’s a form of address: ”Junger” which translates literally as “youth” that might apply better. I’m not German so I’m not sure.

As I posted earlier, the age range of actual deaths, as given by the CDC, for the 18 deaths is 27 - 71 (median 49.5). Plenty of sick "kids", to be sure, but not deaths.

That's the way rhetorics works ... you read "sick teens" and think "kids" and "children" and have an understandable emotional response , then you hear the numbers of patients rising fast, and then deaths and more deaths, and then you come here and imply a lack of empathy for "kids dying" when there has yet to be a reported "kid" dying.

 

[mgordon1100]

Ok, you are so angry that you would sacrifice a family member to further the cause. Got it.

I never said anything of the sort, nor did I say I'd sacrifice anyone. They do it all themselves. Case closed.

 

[bombastinator]

Hey, we may disagree, but I still respect your opinion, as with everyone here and I refrain from personal attacks.

Likewise. It is my intent anyway.

 

[bombastinator]

While I agree with all you've said below this statement, I made my statement for a reason. Maybe not a very good reason, but a reason nonetheless. This man has been twisting my words since he began.

Mine too. Words can be untwisted though it often requires application of a lot more words.

“For tyranny to succeed first kill all the lawyers”. I forget who said that.

There’s another quote
“the court is a crucible that burns away everything but the truth”
It seems to be less true than it used to be but it’s not gone completely

Lots of words get exchanged in courts. It’s one of the reasons they’re so slow.

 

[Baditude]

I’m currently liking @Baditude ’s posting of that grim green video using the term “open system vape” to differentiate.

 

[CMD-Ky]

,,,

 

[bombastinator]

Throat hit would discourage that quite rapidly I suspect.

I tried it once long ago when I was first exploring DIY. Like a blowtorch in the mouth.

 

[Tekaluku]

Teen Vaping: Juul Is to Blame for Rising E-Cigarette Use Among Minors | Digital Trends

A ‘Juul ban’ makes more sense

A return to limited availability of e-cigarette products seems like a smart move and one that does the least amount of harm. Data was already showing before Juul’s rise that traditional tobacco use was decreasing as e-cigarette use increased. Recent health crises aside, there isn’t much evidence to suggest that vaping isn’t a healthier alternative to tobacco use in some way.

By limiting e-juice and e-cigarette availability to specialty shops, it will become far more difficult for these products to end up in the hands of our youth. While the evidence is anecdotal, such a system worked well for years. Industry groups have long pushed shops to card customers, and many prohibit minors from entering their stores at all.

It might also be prudent to ban pod systems altogether, too. Yes, it would be inconvenient for those of us who might not want to fill a tank or change a wick or coil. But if the other option is a flavor ban that will likely only push vapers back to smoking, it might be a worthwhile alternative.​

This is accurate......the juul surfaced in the market and these problems popped up. I support a bannof pod systems too. Better pod systems are out than flavors IMO

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[gpjoe]

While I agree with all you've said below this statement, I made my statement for a reason. Maybe not a very good reason, but a reason nonetheless. This man has been twisting my words since he began.

I have not twisted anything, just called you out on some pretty reprehensible posts about hoping people die. Your words, in case you forgot:

"i secretly want to see this epidemic rise. After they remove the "cause", and see death tolls rise, people will then realize how stupid they are. OK, not such a secret anymore."

and, when questioned by another member ("Your desire to see more people dead isn't so secret anymore."), you double down:

"I know. That's why I said it. Don't get me wrong, it's sad when people die. But I'm not responsible for ignorant decisions. It's Darwinist. We all know that vaping made our lives better. A nice hobby, a healthier body. When a kid says he only did what we do, we know he's lying, and those people who got sick f'd the whole thing up. Do you have sympathy? I don't."

No twist there, just own it - you don't care, and actually hope more people die to prove your point - that vaping TCH is the problem.

Look, I'm all for personal responsibility and owning my actions and agree that others should as well but I would never go as far as exploiting death (or wishing it upon somebody - anybody) as a means to my goal.

That is far different than laughing at some idiot that falls into the Grand Canyon taking a selfie on a precipice in a restricted area. That's just dumb and there is no cure for that.

As much as I disagree with your "wanting to see this epidemic rise" (your words) which will result in more deaths, rather than attack you personally I'd like to give you props for your unabashed honesty. You have a secret desire that more people die and have no qualms about broadcasting it to the world.

 

[Rossum]

That particular one is self solving. Vodka has too much sugar so it will ruin the coil with burnt candy to start. A pure grain alcohol works better but it still works very very poorly. The boiling points of alcohol and water are both too high. Burningly hot.

Eh? The boiling point of both ethanol and water are substantially lower than any PG/VG mix we normally vape.

I'm not sure what makes water, alcohol, or a mixture of the two a poor vape; I suspect it may have be related to viscosity and surface tension, but it's not that the boiling point is too high.

 

[bombastinator]

Eh? The boiling point of both ethanol and water are substantially lower than any PG/VG mix we normally vape.

I'm not sure what makes water, alcohol, or a mixture of the two a poor vape; I suspect it may have be related to viscosity and surface tension, but it's not that the boiling point is too high.

So you’re saying the boiling point of pg/VG is higher than water/alcohol rather than lower?

Wiki has the flashpoint for glycerol at 160c but that’s when it ignites, not when it boils.

 

[Letitia]

This is accurate......the juul surfaced in the market and these problems popped up. I support a bannof pod systems too. Better pod systems are out than flavors IMO

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

Flavors have been in the crosshairs long before vaping became mainstream. Flavored cigarettes were banned to "save the kids".

 

[Eskie]

Flavors have been in the crosshairs long before vaping became mainstream. Flavored cigarettes were banned to "save the kids".

Even those chocolate cigarettes they used to sell for kids. I always liked those.

 

[Rossum]

So you’re saying the boiling point of pg/VG is higher than water/alcohol rather than lower?

Correct. Look up their boiling points. In addition, I'm pretty sure Mike Petro's blog here has empirically determined boiling points of various PG/VG mixtures. All are well over 100°C (the boiling point of water) and ethanol is even lower (just under 80°C, IIRC).

OK, found it:

Note that no mixture of PG/VG has a boiling point less than ~185°C

Wiki has the flashpoint for glycerol at 160c but that’s when it ignites, not when it boils.

I'm not sure what flash point has to do with anything.

 

[Mr.Mann]

As soon as JUUL makes a flavor that contains all the world's stupidity and ignorance, I would be the first in line to support a ban on it.

 

[scott58]

I can't wait until we're in a "1984" movie.

 

[bombastinator]

Correct. Look up their boiling points
{snip}

I'm not sure what flash point has to do with anything.

Tried to. Closest I could find was “flash point”

I’ll take your point though. I always thought water boiled at a higher temp than VG/PG so that’s why they were used instead. Now I’ve got to find out what is wrong with using distilled water as a base, other than it producing basically no visible vapor of course.

 

[Rossum]

Tried to. Closest I could find was “flash point”

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia
Properties side-bar: Boiling point 188.2 °C

Glycerol - Wikipedia
Properties side-bar: Boiling point 290 °C

 

[DPLongo22]

That horse is not only out of the barn, but...

 

[DaveP]

I see closed systems in our future. Government likes tamper proof products even though there's almost nothing that's tamper proof if someone is intent on getting in.

I have plenty of rebuildable atomizers and theoretically most are built to last decades. It's the electronic mods that sometimes fail. I've had three quit working in ten years of vaping, so I'm buying more as I find the ones I like on sale.