Ban Vendors who sell Obvious Knock-Offs, i.e. Hybrids

[subversive]

You know, I've never even owned an actual made-by-joyetech eGo battery.

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

all i can say after reading this whole thread is ...its about time and I hope they are built well and really give the "boutique" guys a "ah ha" experience ...this was no surprise to any of us as a matter of fact this was discussed in a post called Luxury Mods...in the general forum..

This is a result of a market demand that is unmet created by folks who have intentionally limited the availability of products to insure top dollar...lets be real...the Ihybrid is not worth the 250.00 price tag in itself...its the "Rarity" that creates the value...

I have a Zenisis Standard...I love it...it works well and I paid allot of money for it...I waited ...and waited ...and waited then got it when it went up and 5 minutes later they were sold out...and have not been available since.

I am tired of all the babble ad nasium about the hard working handcrafter working late hours by himself to make a mod ...lets just be real...when you can make a product ...say 100 of them...then put them up for sale for 250.00 and they sell out in less than an hour THEN you see the same thing appear on the classies for 400...and they sell withing 20 minutes...well you dont have to be a freakin genius to figure you could make 500 of them...if that is beyond your ability then expand, get a few more lathes turning stainless and a few more hands building...

look I am not trying to be harsh...just real...a ton of folk would love to pay full retail for a nice mod they are just not in stock and it is my belief that its rarity by design

a post said something about the fact that these "boutique" mod makers dont make good money...I say they are making a killing..at least enough to not feel the need to sell any more than what they want to sell..to me its the fact that they are banking fat stacks that keeps production low.

At the end of the day this market has been BEGGING for a good clone to show up ...I am all for it.

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

You can buy a Zenesis at ENS.
A ihy at 310vapers.
Unlike most the Zenesis is patented I believe and it is not ok to steal the design and put a picture taken from an American companies website on their pages. There are pix of the Zenesis Pchela and the Empire in Alibabba's pages.
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Not sure where you guys get off thinking most of these modders are big companies making a fortune on their devices.
Surely if you knew them you'd know that just isn't true.
I can't think of one who is more than a one man outfit trying to supply everyone.
C.B.

this is useless information...you should go to those sites and look before you throw up some out of stock always sites...besides we all know where they are sold...just not where they can be bought...big difference

as far as "one man outfit trying to supply everyone"...well whos fault is that? are you expecting consumers to just wait till that guy decides to go ahead and turn stainless this weekend instead of fishing?....well looks like China has a few men turning that stuff now..this should be a wake up call to all of them and I bet either they will stop making or ramp up the production...either way change is coming

 

[crxess]

Going to say this and leave.
The so called Hybrid Clone is a Cheap, poorly made NON-Hybrid 510 connection TUBE.
we looked at them during planning stages of a coop and laughed them off. Horrible looking in anything but SS(raw)

Funny watching people getting so torqued over nothing.

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

i bet it was crap....but more are coming ..you can bet on that..

 

[Txrider]

Non issue for me, were I to put out a mod that was actually different enough or novel enough from status quo and I wanted to make a living off it, and grow a company from it, we have a process for protecting it, get a patent and go after anyone who clones it and sells it.

If you don't then it's fair game.

It's my impression most of the small folks turning them out 1 by 1 work full time in another occupation for their main income. It's not that hard to go out and get money to tool up and expand if that's what you want. The only real impediment right now is risking your capital when it's unsure what the FDA is going to do. Once that falls out if e-cigs become a legit regulated product billions in venture capital will come flooding into the industry from every direction until the market is saturated with cool stuff and the niche hobby builders will likely mainly go away anyway.

 

[NancyR]

this is useless information...you should go to those sites and look before you throw up some out of stock always sites...besides we all know where they are sold...just not where they can be bought...big difference

as far as "one man outfit trying to supply everyone"...well whos fault is that? are you expecting consumers to just wait till that guy decides to go ahead and turn stainless this weekend instead of fishing?....well looks like China has a few men turning that stuff now..this should be a wake up call to all of them and I bet either they will stop making or ramp up the production...either way change is coming

Have you ever actually talked to some of the mod makers who are doing their own machining? Now Zen and a few others do send out and pay shops to make them, but some like Faceless turns them himself, and he spends most of his time in his shop working. Oh wait he did take a few days away from the shop when both his kids where very sick, but hey maybe he should ignore them so he could make half a dozen more mods.

 

[Neofolis]

I don't really want to get involved in an argument about whether it's right or wrong to copy someone else's designs, it's going to happen whether we agree with it or not and I doubt many people will change their opinions about it based on what they see other people write here. That said, there are many people saying that the modders of high end devices are deliberately causing their items to be rare to force prices up and claiming that they are making a lot of money and could easily expand their operation and increase productivity. To those people, if you believe this to be the case why are you not going out and getting loans or finding investors to enable you to cash in like they are. Whatever you suspect, if you are not one of said modders, you have no idea what they have gone through, how much money they have earned, whether or not they have the means or will to increase production. If they are selling an item for $300.00 and people are then selling the same item on the classifieds for substantially more, doesn't that suggest that they are actually under pricing their products? If you are going to have an opinion on something, surely you would want some facts on which to base those opinions, rather than just your interpretation of evidence, which proves nothing.

Please understand, I'm not saying you are wrong, they may be deliberately making low quantities and they may be making huge amounts of money, but I don't know that to be the case and the only people who do know are the people actually making the stuff. Equally, they may be doing a lot of hard work, finding the experience quite stressful and making next to nothing out of it, which would hardly encourage them to increase productivity.

 

[p-doze]

how about the markups on non-clone devices? http://.........blogspot.com/2013/04/rollout-and-blowout-sigelei-mechanical.html

 

[tj99959]

Personally I love seeing "open source" in the e-cig industry. Without it we would all still be messing around with tea bags and blue foam.
Let me ask a simple question, what product are you using that was manufactured and/or marketed by Dragonite International Limited? (the only owner of an actual e-cig US patent)

 

[p-doze]

Personally I love seeing "open source" in the e-cig industry. Without it we would all still be messing around with tea bags and blue foam.
Let me ask a simple question, what product are you using that was manufactured and/or marketed by Dragonite International Limited? (the only owner of an actual e-cig patent)

the verbiage on the patent filing is for cigalikes like blus and njoys that are a single device without replaceable, refillable, or rechargeable parts. dragnonite is in the process of pursuing patent infringement lawsuits against blu, njoy, and smoking everywhere.

 

[Starlyte2]

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BAN ALL BANS...stop all this moke crap

 

[Starlyte2]

New lubie Open Source Vaping
Use Copy Left, or Creative Commons if your super revolutionary idea is just that and you want it out of the Blus, etc of this capitalistic world. If it's really good you won't even be able to make it if it's patented by Big Money vape systems.

the verbiage on the patent filing is for cigalikes like blus and njoys that are a single device without replaceable, refillable, or rechargeable parts. dragnonite is in the process of pursuing patent infringement lawsuits against blu, njoy, and smoking everywhere.

OSV for all creative small vaping devices. Take a look at the alternative systems, so that Smoketech ( bad example, the China don't give a hoot for copy anything ) or a USA vaping inc don't make your latest idea, as soon as you get the first one ot / CopyLeft, & Creative Common's licences, gratos too, I think. Anyhow, everyone knows how to use Google...
If it works with informatic, why not with Ecigs too ???
Open Source Vapers, sounds kinda good.
So let's all think about that for a bit or two.bin

 

[plastictree]

See the new PBusardo video with zen? Zen says, all of his threads and stuff are open source for anyone to copy. People who buy zens and Ihybrids aren't going to stop buying them. Even with cheap stuff out there

 

[Starlyte2]

the verbiage on the patent filing is for cigalikes like blus and njoys that are a single device without replaceable, refillable, or rechargeable parts. dragnonite is in the process of pursuing patent infringement lawsuits against blu, njoy, and smoking everywhere.

Who want that shiza anyhow, let alone getting into COPYING it. That's Big Biz bull, not craftsmanship kinda hassles. As I said earlier, people that have the readies to pay real vape devices do so, with pleasure, appreciating the work put into it. Those who don't make do with clones, or when the chance pops up, 2nd hand, and wouldn't buy the more expensive mark, and go short of food or whatever, when there's a clone that lets them eat as well. It isn't competition, it's people with less money getting a clone or nothing. The dear person who started this thread doesn't seem aware of whet being broke entails. He/She seems above that side of life, which exists for lots of people. Be aware of that, and maybe your high wind producing opinion might change, or is it too late for you????

 

[p-doze]

not sure what you're getting at. i was just pointing out that the patent holder of an e-cig design is currently suing the companies that are cloning it.

to editorialize, if someone's finances have gotten to the point where they need to decide whether to buy food or buy new vaping gear, they should reassess their vices.

 

[tj99959]

not sure what you're getting at. i was just pointing out that the patent holder of an e-cig design is currently suing the companies that are cloning it.

to editorialize, if someone's finances have gotten to the point where they need to decide whether to buy food or buy new vaping gear, they should reassess their vices.

But I was pointing out that Dragonite (the patent holder) isn't in the business of making vaping equipment, their business is just sucking funds out of those companies that do.

 

[flintlock62]

After reading some of the posts, it seems several people have no problems with knock-offs. I personally have a big problem with it. The vendor pays for the development and research. I won't buy a knock-off, but that's just me.

I'm on my cell phone so I will keep my initial post short.

Just saw at Vapor Joe's that the Knock-Off Hybrid Zen APVs are about to come online.

There is little we can do about knock off clearos and other hyper mass produced eCig apparatus. However when companies take someone's intellectual property and copy it and in turn sell it at a greatly reduced price, well do I need to say more?

What we can do however is speak with our money by not spending it at Vendors who choose to offer such Knock-Offs.

This is going to be interesting to see how the enthusiast (us), designers/makers & small shop producers such as Zen and the Vendors who choose to carry the Knock-Offs will handle this potential train wreck.

Remember the people behind most of the awesome Personal Vaporizers are trying to make a living and a car payment. So when you buy that Zen Knock-Off you're not sticking it to Some Company is some far off land, you're sticking it to Zen!

Zen's first, who else making their own Hybrids will be Knocked-Off next?

 

[Clearo-Mizer]

Really....its more an issue of availability than it is price....there are tons of folk dying to spend full retail for a devise...IF it were in stock....i have no issue with any pricing structure at all.....but it gets under my skin to have to spend so much time searching....i also believe price and rarity are holding each others hand winking at each other

 

[tj99959]

After reading some of the posts, it seems several people have no problems with knock-offs. I personally have a big problem with it. The vendor pays for the development and research. I won't buy a knock-off, but that's just me.

What we are saying tho' is that "knock-offs" advance the science of vaping, and that Zen actually invites others to take his stuff and see if they can make something even better.

I will point out one other factor. My first e-cig starter kit cost $74, that same kit today costs $38. If it was not for market competition created by "knock-offs" that kit would still be $74 (or more).
Well, if they are still making a profit at $38, why wasn't it $38 to start with. Competition is a good thing!