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Batteries, Chargers and Multi-Meters Forum !

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by classwife, Mar 30, 2014.

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  1. classwife

    classwife Admin
    Asst Classifieds Mgr
    Ask The Vets Mgr
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Definition of a hard short

    Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?
    - choose the safest and right battery for your applications here. Includes a list of name brand, high-drain, safe-chemistry batteries with mAh & amp ratings in 18350, 18490/18500, and 18650 sizes.

    Rechargeable Batteries
    - blog post on the preferred chemistry of batteries for mods by our forum administrator and resident battery expert Rolygate.


    Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries pt 1
    - what do the letters & numbers on batteries mean? What's the difference between ICR, IMR, and hybrid batteries?

    Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries pt 2
    - protected vs unprotected batteries, what is Ohm's Law, inline battery fuses, what is an AW battery, stacking batteries.


    Technical: Why High Drain Batteries?
    - technical explanation on why high drain batteries are required for a regulated VV/VW battery device.

    Question for the Tech Engineers at Provape
    - explanation of battery amp limits, internal resistance, and battery chemistry pertaining to regulated VV/VW mods.

    Battery Specifications and Calculators
    - self explanatory.


    How to Use Your Multimeter

    Video on How to Use Your Multimeter

    Ohm's Law Calculator


    Information Resources for Your First RBA

    Mechanical Mod Proper Useage Guide
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. yo han

    yo han Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2008
    the Dutch mountains
  4. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
  6. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    HKJ is the candlepowerforum.com screen name of the owner of the lygte-info. Some people know his forum name and forum reviews (though they are the same) more so than they know his individual website where all of the info is contained under one roof.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    Thanks for that Mr.Mann. Always wondered who the site owner was :)
     
  8. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Visit the PIF Sub-Forum Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 30, 2011
    All over the place
    It's nice to know his handle as you can search for more informal write-ups on the forum from him -- someone that many of us have come to trust.
     
  9. Crazysinnester

    Crazysinnester Full Member Verified Member

    anyone who sub ohms Sony has VTC5's which are probably the safest out right now
     
  10. Gr8Scott

    Gr8Scott Super Member ECF Veteran

    For "visual" people" : The charging and discharging process of a Lithium Ion cell.


    I thought this might help some understand what happens when you are employing the use of a Li-Ion cell in your mod; as well as what happens when you put it back on the charger.



    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]






    My main goal here is to allow people to understand that actual physical changes occur in the "battery" when you under-discharge (allow the battery to drain or get drained) the Lithium Ion cell.
    And, specifically, to illustrate that cells are more likely to vent and/or explode when they are recharging on a charger after being run too low in any particular device. (The exception here being when Vapers insist on 'stacking' batteries in a mod).

















    Here are some pictures from a link (included) to CPF showing the power in a Lithium Ion cell and why the utmost respect ought be afforded to what we loosely refer to as "batteries". In these images please notice the the fourth picture; the one with the blood and the flashlight.
    Now, notice the shape of the battery body of the flashlight. Imagine if that was a mechanical mod that you decided to "stack" batteries in. Realize the injured guy in the picture was likely holding that light a distance away from his body and face, not inhaling on it when it went off. Yeah, this is much less likely with a mod and a single cell, but sobering for some that might think of lithium ion cells as just a bigger version"battery" that's like the one in their remote control.


    This is the "why" in using safety guidelines.









    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded]Ultrafire 18650 3000mA exploded



    The moral of the story is this:
    Don't stack batteries. We are not a bunch of "mamby pamby old vapers that are just too scared" to do what you may think is really cool. We admonish you (those who will listen) to save your face, body or life simply by using safety guidelines.

    You want a mechanical mod? Cool. Not a problem. With a a rebuildable atty? Cool again, not a problem. Wanna sub-ohm too? Cool. Also, not a problem. But PLEASE..........

    ease into it, get some knowledge get smart and vape safely. What sad cruel irony it would be to quit the stinkies that kill you slowly to something that blows up in your face maiming or killing you instantly. It saddens me with concern when I read of people who, in their enthusiasm want to just dive into advanced vaping without knowledge of the risks. Especially after just a couple of weeks or a month into vaping.


    Some quick tidbits of knowledge
    Don't use batteries with a "fire' in their name. (Again, the pictures in the link). Try to stick with AW,Sony or Panasonics that are rated for amperage-appropriate applications (in sub-ohming, especially).

    Use a vape-safe type fuse to put a sort of "firewall" between you and a potentially capricious Lithium-Ion cell. If the fuse decides to trip, don't just get impatient and take it out to fix later while you vape now. I say this because I know the power of nicotine. Either you have a short or your Li-ion cell has gotten too low or something. Fix it now or vape on something else until you do ascertain what the issue is.

    Don't put a rebuildable device on an "ego" or any other sealed battery without built in electronic protection.

    Get OCD about changing batteries, I mean specifically with mech mods. Once it reaches 3.7 -3.8 volts, change it out for a fresh one.



    Here is a chart (again, for visual people) which was compiled using the info Baditude has in his "Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?" link above. (Thanks, Baditude , you know you rock, right?) His list should be used to stay current battery-wise.

    [​IMG]

    I have a "Vaultz" case for my cells and mods within which is a laminated copy of this chart. That way whenever I want to tweak an atty or switch builds on the fly with whatever battery I have, I've got the specs.

    Here's a link to a larger size:

    http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q737/CrazyVaper/Vaping/BestChart_zps581061e3.png



    And most importantly,


    Vape Happy!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
  12. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
  13. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    BATTERY SAFETY TIPS:

    • Use common sense.

    • Don't carry spare batteries in your pocket or purse where they can come into contact with loose change or keys - use plastic battery cases.

    • Don't skimp by buying cheap batteries or a cheap charger. Buy quality batteries and chargers, they'll be well worth it in the long run.

    • Purchase only recognizeable & reputable brand-name batteries like AW, LG, MNKE, Orbtronics, Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony.

    • Purchase brand-name chargers like Pila, Xtar, Nitecore, and Efest.

    • Only use IMR or IMR/hybrid safe-chemistry batteries, not protected ICR batteries.


    • Use the appropriate battery for the specified application. Check battery specifications.

    • Don't over-charge or over-discharge batteries.

    • Don't buy any battery with "fire" in the name - Surefire, Trustfire, Ultrafire.

    • Don't use generic batteries or batteries harvested from lap top computers.

    • Be aware of fake or counterfeit batteries made to look like AW or Sony batteries. Buy from reputable battery vendors like RTD Vapor, Illumination Supply, or Orbtronics who can verify the source of their batteries directly from the manufacturers. Many of the batteries sold on EBay or Amazon are counterfeits and could be dangerous if used in a mod.


    • Don't put magnets on flat-top batteries to try to make them button-tops.

    • Don't stack batteries.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Continuous Discharge Ratings vs Pulse (Burst) Discharge Ratings

    The "continuous discharge rating" in amps is the standard specification for amp limits within the battery industry. It is a determination made by the manufacturer and represents the amp limit a battery can be safely used before it will fail.

    The "pulse or burst" discharge rating is not a specification standard within the battery industry. Every manufacturer or vendor seems to have their own definition of what the pulse rating is to them.

    A pulse discharge rating is any use above the continuous discharge rating. It is never safe and not within the intended operating parameters of the battery. You should not operate your device above the continuous rating if you can help it. The pulse rating is a condition in which the battery is on basically a buildup to failure. It is exceeding the sustainable and intended discharge rate of the battery. It is inappropriate for a consumer device to operate in the pulse range of its battery.

    Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating. Any failure, mechanical or electronic, that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode. If your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

    If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse and burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are already running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse), there is no margin of safety.

    Anyone who is sub-ohming below 0.2 ohms is operating on the pulse rating, and is operating over spec for any battery currently on the market.


    Sony US18650VTC5 2600 mAh High Discharge Flat Top

    Specifications:
    Nominal Capacity: 2600 mAh
    Minimum Capacity: 2500 mAh
    Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
    Discharge End Voltage: 2.5V
    Standard Charging Current: 2.5A
    Charging Voltage: 4.20+-0.05V
    Max. Continuous Discharging Current: 30A
    Internal Resistance: 13.5 milli-ohms​

    1.0 ohm = 4.2 amp draw
    0.9 ohm = 4.6 amp draw
    0.8 ohm = 5.2 amp draw
    0.7 ohms = 6 amp draw
    0.6 ohms = 7 amp draw
    0.5 ohms = 8.4 amp draw
    0.4 ohms = 10.5 amp draw
    0.3 ohms = 14.0 amp draw
    0.2 ohms = 21.0 amp draw
    0.1 ohms = 42.0 amp draw ----> OVER BATTERY SPECS
    0.0 ohms = dead short = battery goes into thermal runaway



    "Sometimes, just because you can, doesn't mean you should." -- PBusardo
     
  15. Lillie Bennett

    Lillie Bennett Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 3, 2014
    Virginia
    I purchased an xtar v2. I thought having the 26xxx capability as well as 18xxx batteries might be useful. However, it is difficult to center the smaller batteries on the charging posts, especially the button tops.
     
  16. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    anyone vaping with mechanical who doesn't own a multimeter (and there are some) needs to see Post #10.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. daz2013

    daz2013 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 19, 2013
    UK
    video on battery and charger

     
  18. TFL!

    TFL! Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 27, 2013
    Chatfield, MN, USA
  19. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
  20. Fuzzy Bruce

    Fuzzy Bruce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2014
    Fort Liquordale, Fl.
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