Battery concerns/misinformation and some education

[Adrenalynn]

I don't see where it provides low-voltage protection, just a warning not to over-drain.

LiFePO₄ is a bit safer chemistry.

The issue here is that if you over discharge them it softens them up, weakens them, they bubble and eventually vent.

I'd make sure that they have undervoltage protection. That's why the V4L flashes and shuts down when the voltage gets too low.

 

[Drozd]

D-

On the description for the RCR123a it says:
"Safe, build-in IC provides various protection, thermal protection, overcharge protection, short-circuit protection, mechanical and electrical protection against reversal polarity, and auto defective battery identification."

Is this what I'm looking for?

I'm pretty sure that that part of the description is for the charger...
protected batteries themselves would say that they have internal protection against over charge or over discharge..or say that they have a PCB (like if you look at the 18650s you got on the battery description tab it says PCB in red)

I did some further digging after posting that and noticing you said LiFePo4 according to someone else the chemistry of LiFePo4 s are safe and therefore don't need the PCB

battery description says they won't catch fire or explode...yet some have said they will..I don't know if they're getting their batteries confused too though and saying LiFePo when they are really Lion..

So..I'm guessing that they'd be more than fine...
my bottom line is read the heck out of stuff about them and determine if you're comfortable with them...

This is what I'm reading about LiFePo4 "new generation R123 with safe chemistry that will not vent with flames (explode). The key to this safety feature is that no oxygen will be released from the oxide structure of the cell composition even under abused conditions. No oxygen means no pressure built up and fuel for combustion."

Bottom line... I missed that they were LiFePo4 when you linked em and was thinking they were Lion...they're not protected, but they don't need to be because of the chemistry so a PCB would be redundant..

EDIT: I'm assuming that you're looking to run cartomizers on a chuck at 6V as the ultimate goal.. and if that's the case I'd choose the ones you chose too..expecially with the premium cartos since (and correct me if I'm wrong on this adrenalynn) the resistance is lower on those than on the old style cartomizers

 

[Adrenalynn]

Well, Oxygen isn't the fuel, it's the oxidizer. As noted, they're "safer" not "safe".

LiFePO cells are generally not sold with protection because they're so "safe". But you really need to be an active participant in making certain you don't ever discharge them. They can still vent with a fair bit of pressure and over-discharge will garbage-i-fy them quicky. So either add protection or be really cautious not to drop them below manufacturer's recommended voltage - 2.2v in this case.

 

[Drozd]

Well, Oxygen isn't the fuel, it's the oxidizer. As noted, they're "safer" not "safe".

LiFePO cells are generally not sold with protection because they're so "safe". But you really need to be an active participant in making certain you don't ever discharge them. They can still vent with a fair bit of pressure and over-discharge will garbage-i-fy them quicky. So either add protection or be really cautious not to drop them below manufacturer's recommended voltage - 2.2v in this case.

right what I'm getting at here is intended purpose..like I said I'm assuming that she's wanting to run 2 of those in a big chuck at 6V for a cartomizer..
And for getting as close to 6V as possible in batteries that size it looks like that IS gonna be the safest battery...as I cant seem to find a 3V protected Lion, or a 3V LiMN in that size
if going stacked 3.7V batteries were an option then I'd say protected AW 3.7V CR123a batteries or the high drain AW LiMN batteries...but that might be a bit much expecially if using the premium cartos and they did indeed lower the resistance on them...

using regular atties there's more options to play with different batteries and atties now (crap there now 510 atties in 5 different resistances) to reach that so called "sweet spot" that some are touting..
But I'm assuming because of the forum that this thread is in that we're talking cartomizers..which 6V is gonna work different on the old style versus the premium..and where I might attempt 7.4V on the old ones I'd never with a premium..
the fine line is what is the resistance on the old cartomizers? and on the premiums? I know they'll vary a little...but on average

 

[Adrenalynn]

There's about a 10% difference in resistance between the soft-cap and regular old one.

I think they're fine batteries as long as you don't over-discharge them very often.

 

[Drozd]

I agree...
What I was getting at was it'd be interesting to couple the battery safety talk in relation to the size of the battery needed, and intended purpose, and desired effect in relation to Ohms law..
Or in other words what cartomizers you're going to use and on which mod to determine what your battery options are and which of those would be be safest for the desired vapor experience...without producing too much heat where things taste burnt..

For example to run cartomizers on the mod I've got coming will take totally different size batteries than a chuck and therefore I have entirely different safety concerns ( i can't use 123 batteries so I don't have an option for protected 6V nor LiFePo or LiMN...but I see a trend toward chucks with some V4L people and given the sizes CM was asking about it's a pretty safe bet that's the route she went..
Now, alot of the atty folk talk about the "sweet spot" of 5V...and really what it comes down to is that realisticly translating into trying to achieve a wattage between 8-10 watts for balance vapor output and flavor..so a carto with an average resistance of 3.0 Ohm is gonna output 8.33 watts at 5V, 12 watts at 6V, and 18.25 at 7.4V...so theres really no reason to take it up that high..heck things might even start to taste burnt or be too much for some people at 6V...and if the premiums dropped their resistance to around 2.3 like I've heard (no confirmation) that's 10.87watts at 5V..15.65watts at 6V...and 23.81watts at 7.4V...well 7.4V is gonna definitely be harsh and probably trash the cartos pretty quickly...even 6V might be..
So for me and cartos on the Mod I'm getting my best safest option is still a 3.7 protected battery and a Premium Carto because the only other "safe" HV battery option for me is 7.4V...

it'd be interesting to see what that sort of wattage does to the lifespan of a cartomizer and the differences between the two styles..not to mention the heat expressed in wattage translated to actual temperature to make sure those wattages aren't heating liquid to too high of a temp where byproducts are produced..and using all those results to pick out the best (most satisfying)/safest battery....

Wow... there was a point there but I'm not sure it's clear because it's way late/early and I'm babbling...

 

[sawlight]

With regards to the wattage it's going to come down to the specific atty you use. There are many manufactures producing atomizers and even some cartomizers in differing impedances now so you can get the high volt feel with low voltage, and go high voltage without cooking them. But that is more of a pain in the .... from what I've seen than it's might be worth for most.
Using the V4L carto's right now is a bit iffy until they can get the manufacturing nailed down better. Addy has noted a decent amount of variance between resistance on these as they are now, but I am certain that is going to improve shortly.

Cat Mommy, the batteries you have selected are fine for what you are going to do, you should have no problem using them.

Another point about using rechargeable batteries worth noting is DO NOT take them right off the charger and use them. Let them rest an hour or so. Right off the charger they are at there hottest and highest voltage, a very unstable state for them to be in. Another flaw I noted in the Chuck story. Right off the charger they will be around 4.2V, an hour later they will be around 3.7-3.9v, it doesn't sound like much, but it's enough! Let them rest!

 

[aubergine]

Alert: New people who have wandered into this thread?

It's vape-geek world.

Your new V4L batt is not going to blow up and knock your teef out.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Your new V4L batt is not going to blow up and knock your teef out.

If only...

I'd go broke buying batteries for people I know.