Battery Info & Safety Sticky

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jerry503

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If you get a compatible lithium charger that can charge at 1000mah... it will probably only take about 1 1/2 hrs to charge the battery

I don't know squat about chargers either, but I'll bet this one, which shipped with my PV, is not gonna win any awards. Like, the 1000mah you recommend is versus the 300mah listed on the sticker?

I know I've read good things about xtar chargers in general, though not clear on which model does what. Is the xtar WP2 II Charger a good one? (Which as I recall GV will be carrying soon.)

Another question, probably a lame one but, gotta ask: I notice the product descriptions for a lot of chargers say they're 3.7v Li-Ion compatible. As I recall the AW IMRs, which I plan to start using, are Li-Mn rather than Li-Ion. Can the same chargers be used? Pretty sure the answer is yes, just don't like surprises where batteries are concerned.


photo (6).jpgphoto (7).jpg
 

jerry503

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Grab a Ultra Fire WF-88

Charges my batteries pretty quickly...I have fallen asleep while charging before...the charger is supposed to cut off the charge when full...but I don't recommend falling asleep during a charge ;)

If you get a LiPo bag...you should be good...but don't get a cheapo one...some of them are knock offs and don't actually work...a search on youtube can find you samples of knock offs failing.


Thanks Sense Field, a specific model recommendation is worth $1M to me, though it'll have to be an I.O.U.....
 

burns_erin

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The XTAR WP2 II Charger is a good one... Li-ion and LiMn batteries can both be charged with it

I think thats the one I have, it's an XTAR of some sort, and I've been very pleased. No measurable temperature change either on the plug, the unit or the batteries. While I do have the temp gun, I have no way to test if the auto shutoff works, but the lack of temp change is a good indicator in my opinion.
 

dannoman

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Ok good news folks...SMOKtech is going to mill new vented bottom tubes for the mod and they will be sent to us right away, possibly by the middle of the week. Pease return your mod's bottom tube and I will exchange it out for you. We will still offer the 25.00 store credit with shipping for an inconvenience.

SO - No longer return the whole kit, just send back the bottom tube if you have already purchased one of these and it will be replaced and I will then issue the store credit plus shipping.
 

Briar

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I think thats the one I have, it's an XTAR of some sort, and I've been very pleased. No measurable temperature change either on the plug, the unit or the batteries. While I do have the temp gun, I have no way to test if the auto shutoff works, but the lack of temp change is a good indicator in my opinion.

Erin, which XTAR are you using? I bought one awhile ago, and it got so hot, I got scared and stopped using it. The one I have now is the Tenergy that came with my Provari, and it also gets hot, but only with two batts in it. With one it only gets warm, so i only charge one batt at a time.

I don't use the bags with these, because even if it gets a little warm, the heat gets trapped in the bag, and the whole procedure becomes hot rather than just warm.

I use the bag for the eGos though... Not enough heat generated to be of concern, and eGos have been known to turn into bottle rockets on chargers and set things on fire.

And, it's been in my mind that the safest indoor place to charge a batt is in the stove. Nothing to burn in there, and it's both strong and vented, especially with the door cracked open a bit. The bathtub, if it's cast iron, will do well too. Just a thought...
 

burns_erin

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Erin, which XTAR are you using? I bought one awhile ago, and it got so hot, I got scared and stopped using it. The one I have now is the Tenergy that came with my Provari, and it also gets hot, but only with two batts in it. With one it only gets warm, so i only charge one batt at a time.

I don't use the bags with these, because even if it gets a little warm, the heat gets trapped in the bag, and the whole procedure becomes hot rather than just warm.

I use the bag for the eGos though... Not enough heat generated to be of concern, and eGos have been known to turn into bottle rockets on chargers and set things on fire.

And, it's been in my mind that the safest indoor place to charge a batt is in the stove. Nothing to burn in there, and it's both strong and vented, especially with the door cracked open a bit. The bathtub, if it's cast iron, will do well too. Just a thought...

Umm, It's black, has the 1A, 0.5A, 0 selector and the usb output. I got it from super t just a few months ago, and it actually says you can charge unattended. I didn't till I checked the temp and I sill check the temp regularly. If thats the same as yours, I'd suggest seeing if yours is under warranty, because I just dont think they are supposed to do that.
 

Ctor

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The XTAR WP2 II Charger is a good one... Li-ion and LiMn batteries can both be charged with it

I have the WP2 II also. It's excellent. I will be getting another for work. And you can pop in an 18650 and use it as a portable charger for cell phone/ipod etc. I use the cheap batteries I got with a kit for this purpose.

I think Dan mentioned he's going to be getting some soon.
 

Phi

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In using nothing but 18650 IMRs, my primary concern with the Telescope is the lack of protection against shorting (which is the primary cause of IMR failure). Thus, I see the Holocron Labs ShortStop to be the singlemost important safety measure for me to take.

As for the venting capacity concern, this largely belongs to those who intend to stack li-ion batteries (or who fear that others will). However, the informed consensus appears to be that all battery mods should have gas vents, a master on/off switch, and some sort of protection circuit.

Since the battery spring in the Telescope mod is physically separated from the body and battery (with a plastic cap on the battery end and something that some are calling a bunch of glue on the body end), I consider the Telescope's firing pin to effectively be a master on/off switch. Especially since it can be easily locked into the ‘off' position whenever the situation warrants it. Thus, between this fact and my use of the aforementioned ShortStop, the only question remaining is whether or not there is sufficient venting capacity to handle an overheated, gas-expelling battery.

When the Telescope's venting capacity issue was first brought up, my first inclination was to compare the venting capacity of the Telescope to my VV Torpedo mod - which was the only thing I had to compare it to. I did not use balloons, but in using my mouth, lungs, and perception, I estimated that the Telecope's total venting capacity was approximately 30 to 50% of the Torpedo's. (My Torpedo had been gutted out for other reasons which made it easy for me to do this.) Nonetheless, after having thought about the matter for awhile (and done much reading about battery and mod safety), I think that I would feel a little safer with a greater venting capacity.

It's unclear what SmokTech intends to change about the lower battery tube to increase the Telescope's venting capacity, but I think that I am going to drill eight 2.0mm holes through the bottom cap and threaded firing-pin lock like this:

televent.jpg

The image above is a bottom view of the Telescope minus the firing pin. So with the firing pin in place, the holes will not be very visible. More importantly, in the unlikely event that the ShortStop should fail to work when it is needed - leading to a temperature rise that results in a venting battery, there will be a counter-pressure created by the streams of gas pressing against the underside of the firing pin cap. This should prevent any bottle-rocket-headed-towards-my-face type of outcome that bottom-end vent holes can lead to.
 

LordDavon

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In using nothing but 18650 IMRs, my primary concern with the Telescope is the lack of protection against shorting (which is the primary cause of IMR failure). Thus, I see the Holocron Labs ShortStop to be the singlemost important safety measure for me to take.

As for the venting capacity concern, this largely belongs to those who intend to stack li-ion batteries (or who fear that others will). However, the informed consensus appears to be that all battery mods should have gas vents, a master on/off switch, and some sort of protection circuit.

Since the battery spring in the Telescope mod is physically separated from the body and battery (with a plastic cap on the battery end and something that some are calling a bunch of glue on the body end), I consider the Telescope's firing pin to effectively be a master on/off switch. Especially since it can be easily locked into the ‘off' position whenever the situation warrants it. Thus, between this fact and my use of the aforementioned ShortStop, the only question remaining is whether or not there is sufficient venting capacity to handle an overheated, gas-expelling battery.

When the Telescope's venting capacity issue was first brought up, my first inclination was to compare the venting capacity of the Telescope to my VV Torpedo mod - which was the only thing I had to compare it to. I did not use balloons, but in using my mouth, lungs, and perception, I estimated that the Telecope's total venting capacity was approximately 30 to 50% of the Torpedo's. (My Torpedo had been gutted out for other reasons which made it easy for me to do this.) Nonetheless, after having thought about the matter for awhile (and done much reading about battery and mod safety), I think that I would feel a little safer with a greater venting capacity.

It's unclear what SmokTech intends to change about the lower battery tube to increase the Telescope's venting capacity, but I think that I am going to drill eight 2.0mm holes through the bottom cap and threaded firing-pin lock like this:

View attachment 125171

The image above is a bottom view of the Telescope minus the firing pin. So with the firing pin in place, the holes will not be very visible. More importantly, in the unlikely event that the ShortStop should fail to work when it is needed - leading to a temperature rise that results in a venting battery, there will be a counter-pressure created by the streams of gas pressing against the underside of the firing pin cap. This should prevent any bottle-rocket-headed-towards-my-face type of outcome that bottom-end vent holes can lead to.

That is an excellent point that I didn't consider. I think you could be right that the bottom button would act as a counter, to avoid the "Rocket Mode", and also giving additional protection to your pinky. Do you think that the cotter pin would hold up when this occurs, to keep the button in place? Also, what would happen if the button is pushed in during this event?

Oh, would you drill the same holes into the lock? I think they should line up okay, since the treading is already set.
 

dannoman

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This is exactly what I was discussing with LD today...A hot spring may not really apply here as a safety measure. The spring in the Telescope does not complete the circuit and thus fire the mod, its the firing pin. The spring inside only serves as a support for the batteries with the plastic cap over them as the rest. This is why SMOKtech told us that if someone inserts the battery in with wrong polarity it really won't do any damage (because of this).

As far as the positioning of the vent holes, I wasn't told EXACTLY, only that it would be in the tube, not the bottom cap. I imagine this is because they ARE using a certain amount of glue for the spring and putting venting holes in the bottom cap would have the glue as an obstruction for venting...

...one other thing...I do encourage everyone to send back the bottom tube (not the cap) but if you decide not to, the unit is made of aluminum and should be easier to drill a hole...



'....Since the battery spring in the Telescope mod is physically separated from the body and battery (with a plastic cap on the battery end and something that some are calling a bunch of glue on the body end), I consider the Telescope's firing pin to effectively be a master on/off switch. Especially since it can be easily locked into the ‘off' position whenever the situation warrants it. ...
 
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Briar

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This is exactly what I was discussing with LD today...A hot spring may not really apply here as a safety measure. The spring in the Telescope does not complete the circuit and thus fire the mod, its the firing pin. The spring inside only serves as a support for the batteries with the plastic cap over them as the rest. This is why SMOKtech told us that if someone inserts the battery in with wrong polarity it really won't do any damage (because of this).

Indeed. That's why I think that simply recommending the use of a fuse with this would be sufficient. The fuse is cheap, reliable, and mostly idiot-proof. :D

For that matter, the Chinese could make a fuse to insert into PVs like this, sell it together with the unit for extra five bucks, and save everyone time and aggravation. And make money besides. The whole idea of a replaceable (modular) fuse is effective, and is a very, very good safety measure.

Or, GV could get their hands on a batch on them, and make a kit of a Telescope and a fuse... Yes, yes, I know I'm being a worry-bug, a nanny, etc, etc. I don't care. Even idiots deserve concern. :D

As far as the positioning of the vent holes, I wasn't told EXACTLY, only that it would be in the tube, not the bottom cap. I imagine this is because they ARE using a certain amount of glue for the spring and putting venting holes in the bottom cap would have the glue as an obstruction for venting...

That's good - they should be on the sides of the PV, not the bottom, at any rate. I just hope they make them smaller than pin-holes. :D

Did you guys see what Axton Hughes did with their latest PV? Rubber inserts into the slots on the side of the tube, which also hold the battery "suspended" inside. Ingenious, really. Since our Chinese friends pick up on tech improvements as well as make their own inventions, they might do worse than borrowing that idea. Not sure if it could work with the Telescope (it might, come to think of it), but in general it's something that should be fairly easy/cheap to implement and well worthwhile for safety without compromising the aesthetics.
 

Sense Field

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This is exactly what I was discussing with LD today...A hot spring may not really apply here as a safety measure. The spring in the Telescope does not complete the circuit and thus fire the mod, its the firing pin. The spring inside only serves as a support for the batteries with the plastic cap over them as the rest. This is why SMOKtech told us that if someone inserts the battery in with wrong polarity it really won't do any damage (because of this).

The HotSpring will only work if they stop using the spring as something that holds up the battery.

They would have to have a ledge in the main body that supports the battery. The spring would simply be used to provide tension to the button.

This would also ensure that the button always has the expected amount of play.

All of this is why Smok has to implement both the vents and the HotSpring button redesign at the same time. It can not be retrofitted.

This is how most mechanical mods ive seen handle it.
 

rdsok

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A hot spring isn't an option. The hot spring will only be effective if it is used to complete the circuit. If the button spring is hot, and you have the unit standing up when it goes thermal, the switch will get depressed due to the weight of the unit.


So in this case... a hot spring is only going to help if you can take your significant other with you for a good, relaxing soak :D

Hot-Spring.jpg
 
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