Battery Research (9-Volt Batteries)

[Technocrat]

I've seen a lot of people here talk about having to plan their lives around how many charged batteries they have. Even the modders here use 18650's and 14500's instead standardized sizes and chemistries.

I kept thinking that it would be great if one could just buy regular batteries at the store for their E-Cig in a pinch, instead of a pack of analogs. Heck, most vapers can't even smoke analogs anymore.

Anyway I came up with two charts;

One to compare the characteristics of various batteries: Battery Chart - E-Cigarette Wiki

And another chart to compare the current in a circuit: Electricity Formulas - E-Cigarette Wiki

(feel free to correct either of those charts, I had to play sort of fast and loose with the internal resistance of the batteries)

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From what I can tell the 9-Volt battery is the only standardized battery that can even come close to the .75-1.5 pulse amps needed for an E-Cigarette atomizer. The rechargeable ones are even better, especially the 7 cell (8.4 volt) Nickel Metal Hydride, and the 2 cell (7.4 volt) Lithium Ion. 250 to 550 mAh isn't very great BUT one can buy them anywhere cheap, and even use a regular alkaline 9-Volt in a pinch. With 9 volts one would need either a 4 ohm resistor or another 4 ohms in the atty, to decrease the current down to 1.5 amps. I'm working on a design that incorporates voltage regulating circuitry, and/or a 10 ohm variable resistor to work with a 9-Volt battery.

If I made any wrong calculations feel free to pipe up, or edit the Wiki.

 

[warp1900]

A 9V battery lowered to 6 or 5 v, will last you even less than a factory battery will at 180 mAh.

There are many mods in this forum using regular multiple AA or AAA batteries and they work great and last much longer.
Some have even tried the 9v and had to forget about it after all the work in getting them down to a reasonable voltage and finding out it didn't last more than a few minutes.

Those charts are good info for both newbies and experts.

Do you really believe that after more than 2 years of this forum modders didn't think of all the alternatives possible?


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[Technocrat]

A 9V battery lowered to 6 or 5 v, will last you even less than a factory battery will at 180 mAh.

As far as I understand it, it is the current that affects joule heating, so there is no need to bother with the voltage. A simple 4-5 ohm resisitor would lower 9 volts to the .75 - 1.5 amps needed for current attys.

Do you really believe that after more than 2 years of this forum modders didn't think of all the alternatives possible?

I did a forum search and found almost nothing on modding for 9-Volt batteries. I was sort of asking a question if anybody had tried it. I thought maybe my calculations were wrong. Also in the last few years a lot of 9-Volts have jumped from 125 mAh to over 565 mAh and there are now Li-Ion 9-Volts, but they still may not be designed for the high currents needed for joule heating. Still they may not work, like you said.

There are many mods in this forum using regular multiple AA or AAA batteries and they work great and last much longer.

.
Yes I've seen them and they are really great, especially your RCA mods. It's just that they are a little big. If 9-Volts worked they would be both small and convenient.

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I am often amazed by the lack of imagination in certain communities. That's why I like you modders. You guys don't have that 'accept things as they are' mentality.

 

[mnealtx]

It's just that they are a little big. If 9-Volts worked they would be both small and convenient.

A 9-volt battery would be just as wide and deep as two 14500 3.7v and within a millimeter or so of the height.

Two 14500 batteries in parallel give you 1800 maH vs 300 maH from the 9v. I think I'd rather have 6 times the endurance than save a millimeter in height, thanks.

 

[Scottes]

Geez, after this drubbing I may never suggest anything or ask a question around here.

 

[mnealtx]

Well, he *did* invite people to comment...I didn't think I was harsh on him and I apologize to the OP if I was.

 

[nubee]

Well, he *did* invite people to comment...I didn't think I was harsh on him and I apologize to the OP if I was.

I don't think he meant you, actually.

And I do agree with him.

 

[warp1900]

Sorry about the incidents I may have caused in your thread Technocrat.

As far as I understand it, it is the current that affects joule heating, so there is no need to bother with the voltage. A simple 4-5 ohm resisitor would lower 9 volts to the .75 - 1.5 amps needed for current attys.

Great info Tech, I didn't know that, but as I mentioned, a couple people tried the 9V battery and they reported very short time performance.
And yes it is sometimes very complicated to find certain things in the forum.

I did a forum search and found almost nothing on modding for 9-Volt batteries. I was sort of asking a question if anybody had tried it. I thought maybe my calculations were wrong. Also in the last few years a lot of 9-Volts have jumped from 125 mAh to over 565 mAh and there are now Li-Ion 9-Volts, but they still may not be designed for the high currents needed for joule heating. Still they may not work, like you said.

Yes, I came across the 9V Li-ions a few days ago, but the price is way too high for just 500 mAh.

Yes I've seen them and they are really great, especially your RCA mods. It's just that they are a little big. If 9-Volts worked they would be both small and convenient.

As mnealtx said, 2 14500 batteries are just a bit bigger than a 9v and will provide you with 1800 mAh in a very compact box.

I am often amazed by the lack of imagination in certain communities. That's why I like you modders. You guys don't have that 'accept things as they are' mentality.

Thank you for your kind words and I hope to see your mods soon posted here, whatever they are and whatever battery they use.


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[warp1900]

Geez, after this drubbing I may never suggest anything or ask a question around here.

I don't think he meant you, actually.

And I do agree with him.

Scottes, nubee, and many others that this may apply to...

Don't worry, I will not be answering any more questions or posting in the forum so you can be free as the wind to enjoy it without being perturbed.


Cheers

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[Nuck]

Scottes, nubee, and many others that this may apply to...

Don't worry, I will not be answering any more questions or posting in the forum so you can be free as the wind to enjoy it without being perturbed.


Cheers

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Warp...this forum is heavily moderated but is still an excellent resource. You can post over to vapor forum (can't post link since its censored here) for relaxed, unmoderated chat and enjoy this place for the its many resources.

Btw..you really were a bit rough on the guy. He was just sharing his research.

 

[HaploVoss]

Honestly guys, after reading much of warp's works and posts in these forums, I don't think he was actually being hard on the guy - I'm pretty sure that last sentence was supposed to be funny which it kind of was. Just cuz there was no smiley attached at the end well...

I also noticed that the only person to really NOT have an issue with warp's first post was the OP - who everyone is rushing to aide, but I still don't see anywhere in this thread where he and warp are not peacefully discussing the topic?

I can see how it might be mis-read, but I think we jump to conclusions too easily before asking the parties involved. And - I could also be entirely wrong and warp was on an unprovoked flaming warpath. I just doubt it is all.

Take care all,
- Hap

 

[Carlos49]

Warp...this forum is heavily moderated but is still an excellent resource. You can post over to vapor forum (can't post link since its censored here) for relaxed, unmoderated chat and enjoy this place for the its many resources.

Btw..you really were a bit rough on the guy. He was just sharing his research.

Nuck your absolutley right it's a good resource but I have to say that it's loosing it's touch. It's time for some of the mods to wake up and smell the coffee!! For the new users it great to ask questions and post your mods, everyone enjoys them, but do a little research and and spend a little time looking through old posts, you'll find most of your answers in there. If you still don't understand or trying to do something else then speak up and everyone will try to help. That's all I'll say to that so I don't get banned. Everyone.. Happy modding

 

[Technocrat]

I didn't think Warp was being mean. I have a lot of intelligence but not much experience (at least with joule heating). I've come to learn that a few ounces of experience can trump a whole head full of smart and warp has a lot of experience.

I just hate non-standard equipment. It brings to mind things like 'barriers to adoption' and 'vendor lock in'. Unique equipment also makes E-cigarettes much more complicated like drugs. This limits E-Cigs to young people, drug users, and the technically savy. As they are now, I don't think I could recommend (current) E-Cigs to anybody who is old or simple.

...For the new users it great to ask questions and post your mods, everyone enjoys them, but do a little research and and spend a little time looking through old posts, you'll find most of your answers in there...

I have to agree with this. I always try to search before making a post. I see newbies making the same questions month after month, that's why I tried to get people to move all that stuff, that they ask repeatedly, to the wiki (http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cussion/33679-e-cigarette-wiki-needs-you.html).

 

[firhill]

I didn't think Warp was being mean.

Mean..maybe not. Condescending..definitely.

I see he says he's gone for good...no big loss IMO.

 

[Scottbee]

A resistor just ins't the way to go. You are going to lose over half of your available battery capacity and power in heating the RESISTOR... not the atty.

And a linear voltage regulator isn't much better. Still a huge power eater.

They make very small, high efficiency adjustable switching regulators that aren't much bigger than a standard TO-220 package. I would look long and hard at those.

 

[mcl5000]

I know that the OP hasn't mentioned anything about warp being condescending so this isn't directed at him, but all of the others who stuck up for the OP.

If you post something in a public forum and ask for opinions or comments, you're going to get them. If someone doesn't like your idea or has vastly different opinions, they are free to make that known. I'm sure some people will use the information in this thread, but warp just made it known that he doesn't necessarily agree.

Why jump all over him?

 

[Nuck]

I know that the OP hasn't mentioned anything about warp being condescending so this isn't directed at him, but all of the others who stuck up for the OP.

If you post something in a public forum and ask for opinions or comments, you're going to get them. If someone doesn't like your idea or has vastly different opinions, they are free to make that known. I'm sure some people will use the information in this thread, but warp just made it known that he doesn't necessarily agree.

Why jump all over him?

Maybe they were just giving their opinion of his opinion?

 

[SmokinScott]

Everyone, lighten up please.

We're all here in the modder's forum to bounce ideas off of each other (and show off stuff we've made).

Some bounce harder then others.

Warp has been a great help to me and others here.