Beginner Diy Ejuice. Strawberrys and cream

[TrickTappic]

Hi everyone,

NEW DIYer here and looking for a little bit of advice on expectations versus reality when it comes to Ejuice. So to without going on to much of a tangent, I will explain my first mixing experience.

So the vape juice that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE and pretty much transitioned me from cigarettes to vaping was S+C2 by vape wild (strawberrys and cream). Now, I've vaped for 2 years and can say I have tried alot of strawberry juices but always found S+C2 my fave and still is. So, I decided to try and clone it.
I actually found a recipe that somebody had made and swore that it was exactly the same. So I copied it. I substituted one of the ingredients as I didn't have it. It was actually French vanilla instead of sweet cream. Anyways, I completed a small batch and it looks like this.

Nicotine 0mg
30pg/70pg
7% strawberry sweet (Cap)
1% strawberry ripe (TFA)
1% French Vanilla
.25% Ethyl Maltol
1.50% Bavarian cream
1% cream
1.50% Graham cracker clear.

Gave it a good shake, warm bath steeped 3 times and shook some more.

When i vaped it I thought wow! It is very similar. Cant complain! But as half an hour past by vaping it, there's a problem. The strawberry is very muted. Infact, it's hardly noticeable. I'm not sure whether it is actually there and is blended behind the rest of the ingredients and I don't notice it as strongly due to the cream like content or it is just seriously muted. The strawberry is actually at 8% while the rest of the ingredients make up for 6.2%.

While this recipe is actually going in the right direction in terms of accuracy I am worried about how I am going to bring out that strawberry sweet kick that it lacks. As said, I'm very happy with the way the cream part has turned out but very confused as to the strawberry portion

Overall it's a smooth creamy, almost McDonald's vannila milkshake like vape with a A TINY hint of strawberry lingering when you try hard to detect it.

So my question is....How do I bring out that strawberry to really become the dominant note? Would steeping correct this? Would you knock up the % of the strawberry or try a different strawberry completely? Is there any other flavours I can add to highlight the strawberry? Should I add more sweetener?

Thanks for taking the time to read this guys. I really am.a novice when it comes to mixing so any help would be appreciated.

 

[Letitia]

What I would do is drop the EM completely, some of your other flavors already have em. I would raise the TFA sb ripe to 4% and drop the Cap ssb to 3%. If you have INW sb shisha that would help at 1-2%. I would also make two 10ml batches, naturally steep one with time and use the method you've already tried. Not all juices do well with heat steeping.

Since the strawberries are the only brands you listed can't comment on how they may be affecting the mix.

 

[IDJoel]

I concur with @Letitia, in that I would try again without using heat. Strawberry is one of those flavors that is quite aromatic, and susceptible to flavor fade. Aromatics classically have a higher percentage of volatile compounds. Volatiles evaporate quickly, even at room temp... let alone when heat is applied. You likely "cooked" off much of your strawberry flavoring.

Letitia's suggestion, of doing a side-by-side test, is a solid one.

Other thoughts:
If you liked the initial flavor, and found it to be similar to what you were aiming for, I am not sure I would do a lot of tweaking to the strawberries. At least; not yet. Instead; I would try reducing the other ingredients first.

I would be inclined to try something like this:
7.0% Strawberry Sweet (CAP)
1.0% Strawberry Ripe (TFA)
0.5% French Vanilla (F.V. is a much stronger/more dominating concentrate than Sweet Cream)
0.0% Ethyl Maltol (forget about this for now; it is easily added later if needed. Also known flavor muter)
1.0% Bavarian Cream (this is a "heavier" cream; leaning more toward custard styles)
0.75% Cream (1% may be okay; but lowering this helps preserve balance with other cream elements)
1.25% Graham Cracker Clear. (again; for balance. May even need to go to 1%)

I would try a small tester of that; and see how it compares.

Final thoughts:
Just a word about creams. Creams can be a bit weird for the first 2(+/-) weeks (esp. the Bavarian Cream in this recipe). They can have a bit of a plastic taste. They can dominate, even mute, lighter flavors. After a bit of time in a cupboard, or closet; they settle down and start playing nice with others.

Don't toss any of your experiments for at least a month. If something isn't ready to vape now; put it away, and give it another vaping test/taste in another week (or so).

It is not at all uncommon to read someone's post, about finding a mediocre bottle that they forgot all about, and now (6 weeks, 3 months, even a year later) tastes wonderful. I understand patience is hard to come by; but it really is one of the best tools a DIYer can use.

Best of luck to you. Let us know how you progress.

 

[TrickTappic]

Thank you all very very much for the replys this is really helpful Information. Idjoel thank you for the feedback on the creams now I understand that they can be quite conflicting, this i didn't realise and was just about to make a new batch by raising the strawberry %'s. The next batch I make I will follow both pieces of Advice. I will avoid giving warm water baths and I will lower the cream volume and keep the strawberry the same. I will pitch the EM and lower the French vanilla. I did notice that the vanilla was really strong, even just opening the cap I could instantly smell it.

I did make a tester batch just before the one I talk about and I had Graham cracker at 2% but this imo was way to overpowering to what I was looking for. Just another quick qu stion regarding bottles...does it make a difference to use glass or plastic? This may seem like a stupid question but every little bit helps.

The other test bottles I will keep stored for the time being.

Again, thank you all for the valuable information.

 

[Letitia]

Glass is good but I don't like to be bothered with droppers. For nic storage I use glass. For mixing I prefer ldpe plastic bottles. The are much easier to use and are softer that stiff PET bottles. My nic bases are also kept in large ldpe condiment bottles.

 

[Mr. Relentless]

Bavarian cream takes a long time to steep. Might be muting your other flavors before it mellows out.

 

[TrickTappic]

Ok, so just an update on this recipe endeavour. so I have just spent the past 2 hours trying to figure this strawberry situation. As mentioned earlier I followed a recipe I for a S+C2 clone. The creamy elements turned out really nice and smooth but the strawberry was non existent. Following the kind advice from the guys above this is how my experiment went;

I followed Joel’s measurements in regards to the cream flavours. This took the %’s down from my original recipe but the strawberry’s stayed the same. I then followed Letitias advice and skipped the warm bath steeping process. I gave this a good mix and let the mix breathe for around 10mins. The results? Well, the creamy elements were still good. The graham cracker taste was less noticeable and the French vanilla I felt was perfect, I felt it was more of a milky/cream and I was happy. However, the strawberry was still non existent. I vaped them side by side with my first sample and didn’t see any difference with the strawberry. Only with the cream elements. As I continued to scratch my head I proceeded to dab a few drops on my pinky and rubbed it over my tounge. I could DEFINITELY taste the strawberry, infact it was by far the most prominant taste. This confused me even more. Anyways, I decided to take a 10ml 70/30 mix and added the strawberry ripe @ 7% stand alone. Mixed it up good, juiced my tank and vaped it. I got absolutely zer strawberry taste. It was just like vaping a plain non existent mix. Secondly I did the same thing with the CAP SS. Same mix, same %. I got the most irrelevant hint of strawberry it was practically nonexistent. Again, I dabbed it on my finger and rubbed over my taste buds and I got a very sweet strawberry sensation. At this point I’m totally stumped. I added 1% EM to the plain strawberry bases and found it sweetened it ever so slightly. I then mixed the 2 of them together with 2% EM and the results were practically the same. Not really knowing what to think, I went straight to my passion fruit and bubblegum mix to see if I had vapers tounge. Vaped it and the flavour was perfect. So no I’m starting to think that it is the strawberry flavours themselves. But seeing how popular these brands are I can’t see these being poor quality concentrates. Upping the % higher in the strawberry seems futile and a little stupid. Especially as I had just tried it as a single stand alone vape. Anybody have any suggestions as to why this could be? Do I really have to up the % anymore? Should I add anymore flavours to try and spark the strawberry into life? It’s actually very frustrating because I just don’t understand why I cannot taste my favourite flavour! I am going to let my original batches strep but honestly, I don’t think it will help it that much.

Thanks guys.

 

[Letitia]

Ok, so just an update on this recipe endeavour. so I have just spent the past 2 hours trying to figure this strawberry situation. As mentioned earlier I followed a recipe I for a S+C2 clone. The creamy elements turned out really nice and smooth but the strawberry was non existent. Following the kind advice from the guys above this is how my experiment went;

I followed Joel’s measurements in regards to the cream flavours. This took the %’s down from my original recipe but the strawberry’s stayed the same. I then followed Letitias advice and skipped the warm bath steeping process. I gave this a good mix and let the mix breathe for around 10mins. The results? Well, the creamy elements were still good. The graham cracker taste was less noticeable and the French vanilla I felt was perfect, I felt it was more of a milky/cream and I was happy. However, the strawberry was still non existent. I vaped them side by side with my first sample and didn’t see any difference with the strawberry. Only with the cream elements. As I continued to scratch my head I proceeded to dab a few drops on my pinky and rubbed it over my tounge. I could DEFINITELY taste the strawberry, infact it was by far the most prominant taste. This confused me even more. Anyways, I decided to take a 10ml 70/30 mix and added the strawberry ripe @ 7% stand alone. Mixed it up good, juiced my tank and vaped it. I got absolutely zer strawberry taste. It was just like vaping a plain non existent mix. Secondly I did the same thing with the CAP SS. Same mix, same %. I got the most irrelevant hint of strawberry it was practically nonexistent. Again, I dabbed it on my finger and rubbed over my taste buds and I got a very sweet strawberry sensation. At this point I’m totally stumped. I added 1% EM to the plain strawberry bases and found it sweetened it ever so slightly. I then mixed the 2 of them together with 2% EM and the results were practically the same. Not really knowing what to think, I went straight to my passion fruit and bubblegum mix to see if I had vapers tounge. Vaped it and the flavour was perfect. So no I’m starting to think that it is the strawberry flavours themselves. But seeing how popular these brands are I can’t see these being poor quality concentrates. Upping the % higher in the strawberry seems futile and a little stupid. Especially as I had just tried it as a single stand alone vape. Anybody have any suggestions as to why this could be? Do I really have to up the % anymore? Should I add anymore flavours to try and spark the strawberry into life? It’s actually very frustrating because I just don’t understand why I cannot taste my favourite flavour! I am going to let my original batches strep but honestly, I don’t think it will help it that much.

Thanks guys.

You are simply impatient imo. Put the various mixes up for a minimum of 3 days. Then sample, do this a few times. In the meantime you may have better luck trying a sb one shot to add to your creams. One Stop DIY Shop succulent strawberry will give you a win to vape while you experiment and learn what sb % will work for you. You are already half way there with the cream base. Just be patient and let the mixes meld and develop.

 

[Letitia]

BTW very few snv are good off the shake and over flavoring can mute the same as underflavoring. Just play with the strawberries without the creams to find that happy place then add to the creams. The succulent SB is actually not bad off the shake but better in 24 hours and even better in 3 days. Take a deep breath and write up the notes of what you've done so you can track the progress of what you've mixed. It gets easier and is well worth the time you are putting in now. One thing I've learned is don't aim for an exact clone, aim for as good as or better.

 

[TrickTappic]

BTW very few snv are good off the shake and over flavoring can mute the same as underflavoring. Just play with the strawberries without the creams to find that happy place then add to the creams. The succulent SB is actually not bad off the shake but better in 24 hours and even better in 3 days. Take a deep breath and write up the notes of what you've done so you can track the progress of what you've mixed. It gets easier and is well worth the time you are putting in now. One thing I've learned is don't aim for an exact clone, aim for as good as or better.

Thank you Letitia! I’ve put them all in the cupboard and out of sight. I’m going to give them until Sunday night and I will try them again! I read on reddit that s+c by Cap is a good flavour to add to the collection for these type of recipes. It’s crazy to me how I can taste other flavours just fine and the strawberry is just not there, even as stand alone flavours. Thank you for the reply, maybe time is the best remedy at this point. Patience is a virtue, but sometimes it can hurt you! Haha. Oh and by the way I accidentally disagreed with your post I was trying to click the agree button but clicked the wrong icon. I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to be rude or anything like that. Really appreciate the reply’s!

 

[Letitia]

No worries, I don't pay much attention to ratings anyway. You will find with many flavors it takes a combination of several to make a whole. For example I use 2-3 sb or watermelon to get the flavor notes I want. Believe succulent SB uses a trinity for their one shot. Welcome to the rabbit hole. The couches are pretty comfy down here.

 

[IDJoel]

@TrickTappic, I feel your frustration. Do not despair, and resist the urge to tweak (adding ingredients).

There are actually any number of things that can be going on (alone, or in combination):

• The cream combination could simply be (temporarily) covering up the strawberry element. Patience is the answer for this. As @Letitia wisely advised; put it away, and then revisit in a few days. It may be good to go in as little as a day or two. Or, it may take a week, or even more. There is nothing wrong with taking it out occasionally, and giving it a vape test, to see if it is ready yet. Just don't give up; and start dumping more of the "missing" flavor in. This is counterproductive. Letitia's caution about over-flavoring is not just urban legend.
• Your hardware may not be set up correctly. If you are using a new device, or have just rebuilt your atty (coil/wick); it may not be optimal for flavor delivery. Try another e-liquid in that build (don't make any adjustments or changes). Does it taste the way it is supposed to? Try adjusting the power/temperature higher and lower (it may take a significant change). Try opening up, and closing off the airflow (if adjustable). If it is a rebuildable; try adjusting the coil closer to/further away from the air inlet(s). Do you have too much/too little wicking material?
• Some folks just can't taste certain flavors; and Strawberry is one of the more commonly mentioned ones. I am more than a bit skeptical that this applies to you; because you routinely vape(d) strawberry. Also, you say you can taste it, when you rub the liquid directly on your tongue. I don't know if it is possible, to taste some strawberry concentrates, and not others. But, I suppose, it is possible. (On a side note: I personally never found much/any useful feedback from directly tasting {liquid on tongue} liquids, or concentrates. Flavors were too intense, with too many non-representative {to vaping it} chemical flavors. But, if you find it useful, go for it.)
  
• The recipe could genuinely be off for your particular taste buds. Continuing to lower the dominating flavors, and/or raising the weak flavors, may be the required fix. Or, substituting one manufacturer's ingredient, for a similar one made by a different manufacturer. The only answer to this one is trying various combinations.

So, what would I do now, if I were in your shoes?
I would keep vaping my mix(es); and check my hardware setting, to see if I can find a better configuration for flavor. (as detailed above)

Then, I would park my current mixes, and give them some time to see what develops. I would find some other juice to vape; to tide me over, for the time being.

Then, if I just can't resist the thought of mixing, I still have a few options. If the strawberries and cream is all I care about; I could try mixing further variations (but not messing with the ones I already made. Or, I could try something completely different. Or, I could try learning more about the individual ingredients I am already using, by doing additional single flavor testers.

I find single flavor testers particularly informative. By mixing multiple testers, of the same ingredient, at various percentages; I can learn both what that particular flavor has to offer (and conversely; what it is lacking), as well as what percentage works best for me. As a single flavor tester, this "best" percentage, sets the most (or upper limit) I am likely going to want to use it at. When I am bleeding it with other flavors; I am likely going to want less.

Single flavor tests may not always be exciting; and they're often incomplete (requiring additional flavors to fill out the missing notes). But, sometimes one gets the bonus of finding a great stand-alone recipe to boot. And the information gained is about as thorough as one could hope for... if given a chance. Just remember to keep the batch size small. 5-10 mL is good for all but the slowest aging concentrates.

(Oh, and single flavor tests, mean just that... SINGLE flavor. Adding in even enhancers (sweeteners, EM (Ethyl Maltol), meringue, marshmallow, cotton candy, MTS, sour, etc.), let alone a second true flavor, all change the way a flavor is perceived skewing the results. Thereby defeating the very thing you are trying to learn. Those can very well be valid tests; but they are NOT single flavor tests.)

And my final piece of advice? Letitia already gave that one to you to... and it may be the most helpful too. Take notes; write everything down.

Notes are useful in so many ways. They are great for refreshing your memory; especially with ingredients you don't use regularly. They are indespensible for being able to back up several steps, and trying something different, vs. starting all over. And, they are useful to both you, and others, when asking for assistance. That way, when others ask "how did you...," the answers are always in arms reach.

DIY is like most other things in life; you get out of it, what you put into it. have a relaxed attitude about mixing. Celebrate your successes. Learn, and get better, from your mistakes. And remember, the only way to fail at DIY, is to give up. You have started one incredible ride; enjoy the journey!

 

[tara81]

Why not try just an all strawberry mix while you wait for your creams to steep.

Dragonfruit tpa 2%
Strawberry ripe 6%
Sweet strawberry 7%

I love my strawberry cake batter, it tastes great as a shake and vape :

Cake batter dip fw 6%
Cake yellow fw 1%
Strawberry shortcake (ooo) 4%
Strawberry ripe 2%
Sweet Strawberry cap 7%
Bavarian cream 2%
Fw sweetener 1-2%

 

[TrickTappic]

Thanks again guys for the very helpful information and taking the time to help; it's really appreciated. My setups are Smok Procolour and V2 stick with big baby beast tank with 0.25ohm coils. While I understand that sub Ohm vaping produces less flavour, I have never had a problem with flavours vaping from 40-90w with these setups. For example after I had mixed up my s+c mix and couldn't find the strawberry, I went straight back onto my ADV strawberry + Kiwi from my local vendor without a problem. Also, I have already tried 2x 10ml stand alone strawberry tests at 7% for both of the strawberry concentrates and still couldnt taste any strawberry even when they were mixed by themselves. It's wierd to me. I thought maybe I had a bad batch but as I said earlier, I dabbed it on my pinky just to see if the taste was there and it was. For the time being, im going to leave these in the cupboard for 4-5 days and come back to them. In the meantime I will try mix up some less complex juice to vape while I research more on strawberry flavours. A few guys on Reddit recommended inswa shisa strawberry? Something like that anyways. So I may order a couple more strawberrys just to add to my collection for future mixes.

Thanks everybody.

 

[Letitia]

Inawera, INW, sb shisha is an excellent edition to your sb family. For myself it seems to round out and pull the other berries together. I would recommend lowering the percentage some on your single flavor testers, sft, just in case you are one of those that can't taste high concentrations well. For example I can taste orange high and low, can only taste blueberry high, can only taste sb and raspberry low. Our taste buds are fickle sometimes annoying wonderful things.

 

[TrickTappic]

Inawera, INW, sb shisha is an excellent edition to your sb family. For myself it seems to round out and pull the other berries together. I would recommend lowering the percentage some on your single flavor testers, sft, just in case you are one of those that can't taste high concentrations well. For example I can taste orange high and low, can only taste blueberry high, can only taste sb and raspberry low. Our taste buds are fickle sometimes annoying wonderful things.

So I just ordered inawera shisha strawberry and also inawera raspberry aswell. I did do a couple of single flavour test last night with cap SS and TFA SR I made 2 10ml 30/70 mixes and added 7% of each one to each 10ml mix. Again I got nothing. Only the slightest hint with capSS. I have done single flavour test with a few others like Passion fruit, Parma violet, lemon and pineapple and all were perfect. maybe it's a pyschology a thing, maybe my taste buds are terrible lol but I just can't detect these strawberry flavours. Never had a problem in the past vaped so many strawberry and creams and found the majority very enjoyable.

 

[Letitia]

Again you may be expecting too much off the shake. Not every flavor reacts the same. I very seldom taste anything I mix before 3 days. Commercial juices use the same flavor brands we use. If you can taste a flavor in a commercial juice you can taste it in your diy. You might try splitting the sft and adding a drop of sweetener to one of the splits. Juice vendors use more sweetener than most diyers. It's something you will get used to fairly quickly. I very seldom use a sweetener and then a mild one at low percent.

 

[stols001]

Yes unfortunately some flavors require more than one manufacturer or type of flavor to work well. It's just how it is. I find layering my fruits (e.g. I am a fan of apricot and have three different manufacturer's flavorings) and will often layer them in various percentages to get a richer dominant "apricot" note, and that's not even counting the other things I may add to get to an even nicer place, for me..

I will note that I started with single flavor mixes and took the time to tweak, take notes, and etc.

If you are feeling impatient, I would encourage you to maybe order some one shot flavorings and use them in conjunction with your other experiments, they are designed to be shaken and vaped for the most part, although steeping and even adding ingredients can sometimes be nice, but I will say they are a great cure for impatience/early failure or misgivings with DIY in general.

I'm not a fan of strawberry but I will say, in general, it's not at all unusual to have difficulty "nailing down" a particular flavor or recipe and I will actually put strawberry fairly high on that list (for me). I just don't LOVE artificial strawberries that much, compared to the real deal. But again, these are your tastebuds, so the best way to address this is to do some of YOUR experiments. Etc.

Anna

 

[classwife]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid from General E-Liquid Discussion

 

[TrickTappic]

Thanks to everybody that posted in response to this thread. All the information has been taken on board and his helping me in my endeavours in DIY Ejuice. While I do have a vast amount of flavours, I made it my goal to stick to one recipe at a time because I was just getting flustered while trying to whip up 3-4 different recipes that mostly turned out horrible, my attention shifted to strawberrys and cream alone and try to make it my goal to acheive a recipe reassembling vape wilds S+C2. So after 3 or 4 batches and 6 days steeping I have arrived at 1 batch that I thought had the most potential. The recipe was the edited version of the first recipe but I followed IDjoels advice on lowering the cream Ingredient %'s and kept the strawberrys pretty much the same. Then I followed Letitia's advice and practised patience, avoided warm water baths and played around with the strawberry juices as stand alones and even ordered inawera shisa strawberry to include in the strawberry family. After taking he juice from the cupboard I found it had developed a very slight pinky/orange tint beforehand it was clear. When I vaped it I could definitely taste the strawberry and the inhale is very very smooth/slightly sweet on the throat, Nothing overpowering and actually a pleasent vape! I am pretty pleased at this point and now confident enough to make this is bigger batches to rotate in and out of my daily vapes. However, I do feel it is missing something. Nothing major but just that 1 ingredient to round of the flavour as a whole and this ingredient, to me, needs to be a fruit. As I said, the strawberry i can tatse now and it blends really good with the other flavours, there is not one flavour that overpowers another in the recipe but I feel it just needs a tiny sweet bump in the exhale.
As I read through the thread I seen some very good information from other posters about adding a diff flavour to supplement the strawberry without overpowering the overall recipe. So my question would be this;

What flavour can I add to this recipe to just round of the 'fruity' portion of the recipe.? Nothing overpowering of course and nothing out of the ordinary, I certainly do not want to mute the strawberry I'm getting now but to just bring out maybe a slight 'tang'. As mentioned, I do have inawera shisa strawberry now in my collection. Or should I just leave this recipe alone for the time being?

Thanks everybody.