The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Bench Retest Results: Golisi Black S35 30A 3750mAh 21700...accurately rated, LiPo chemistry

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Dec 26, 2018.

Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    These tests below only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, Murata, LG, Panasonic, Molicel, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. Use of these batteries is AT YOUR OWN RISK. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.

    Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved, understands the risks, has the proper equipment, and takes all appropriate safety precautions.

    If the battery has only one current rating number, or if it only says "max", then I have to assume the battery is rated at that current level for any type of discharge, including continuous.

    87D7DEB2-8FDC-4E95-8349-3ACC50BBC4BC.jpeg D6773D61-CC2A-4D69-834C-7CF09720FE77.jpeg 88CD48B9-C4DC-4C12-89A5-7C3C4D49222E.jpeg D0E833EE-C76A-4E20-B90E-A1059E3ED1F3.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    This is the second version of this cell that I have tested and it is a great performer, beating the Samsung 40T at above 20A-25A or so. Below 20A-25A the 40T performs better due to its higher capacity. The Samsung 30T is still the top performer though for above 25A.

    I rated the first version of this Golisi S35 at 30A 3700mAh but this version is rated accurately at 30A 3750mAh and performs better than the first version. Both the DC internal resistance and cell to cell performance consistency were very good.

    I am very glad to see that Golisi made a change in the wrap that gives us a way to distinguish between the two versions. The older version had a “40A CDC” rating on the wrap. This second version has a “CDR: 30A / MAX 40A” rating.

    The “max” rating of 40A is useless though and can be ignored. Without knowing how that rating was set, and having every company doing it the same way, we can’t use that rating to compare this cell to any others.

    The “IMR” on the wrap is incorrect. “IMR” is not a cell chemistry. It is a model number prefix that was often used for cells using a lithium-manganese-oxide (LMO) chemistry. This chemistry is not used much now in the cells we buy. The Safety Data Sheet (SDS) for this Golisi cell indicates that it uses the same battery chemistry as LiPo’s, lithium-cobalt-oxide (LCO).

    This does NOT mean this cell is inherently dangerous! LCO chemistry cells can go into thermal runaway at a lower temperature than other chemistries, and their reaction when in runaway can be more violent, but they are not bombs waiting to go off. Your cell phone, tablet, laptop, many internal battery mods, and many DNA box mods use LiPo cells. As I recommend with any LiPo, take extra care and do not misuse or mishandle this cell.

    Golisi has sent me the datasheet, MSDS/SDS (listing the cell’s chemical composition), and the UN38.3 safety testing report and without any delays or complaints. This was great to see! Testing does not mean any cell is “safe” but at least this Golisi has had some testing done and passing the UN38.3 tests means they can legally ship this cell to customers.

    The capacity for the four cells I tested ranged from 3796mAh to 3855mAh at 750mA (0.2C) down to 2.5V. This is fairly good consistency.

    I am giving this second version of the S35 a continuous current rating of 30A and 3750mAh.

    Four cells were supplied for the purposes of testing by Golisi (Home).


    Continuous Current Discharge Graphs
    C4493AD6-6AE1-45E5-915A-B78E0DE41CB5.jpeg D41940F6-9AF4-4F17-9DC9-2033664C16C7.jpeg F1573C8C-DA7A-4542-8455-F23329F86D04.jpeg


    Ratings Graphic
    8D292BB4-E055-46DA-B31C-99054C7F35D6.jpeg


    Performance Specs
    - DC Internal Resistance = 15.2mOhms (milliohms) average for the four cells.
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 10A continuous = 10.6Wh
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 20A continuous = 9.3Wh
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 30A continuous = 7.1Wh

    I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: Battery Mooch is creating battery tests and educating vapers | Patreon.

    Golisi paid a fee to be moved to the front of the testing queue, which currently has a 10-12 week backlog. This cannot influence my test results as this is science, resulting in hard data, not a subjective review. In addition, they pay in advance, have no say about what is in this report, and I don’t care if any company never does this or donates batteries again. My reputation is a lot more important than any battery donation or fee to be moved to the front of the queue.

    To see how other cells have tested check out this link: List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • Like Like x 4
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    With a 40A discharge this cell reaches only 88°C?
    Seems like even the max 40A isn't an exaggeration.
     
  3. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hunterwasser
    Golisi are trying very hard
     
  4. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    As an experienced user of Li-Pol in RC you can not really compare Li-Ion and Li-Pol. Li-Pol has some advantages concerning the Voltage and temperture, but has also some disadvantages...like cycle-life, but also the safety. Frankly speaking...I am not very impressed of using Li-Pol in e-Cigarettes...but it is based on my own personal experience so far.
     
  5. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Concerning chemistries I think we'll be very surprised, when more datasheets from other cells become available;)
     
  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Depends on the criteria used to set the rating.
    But since no one knows, we’re stuck with a useless number.
     
  7. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Ok. Let me phrase it different.
    If Golisi had set the CDR at 40A, that rating would have been acceptable as well.
     
  8. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    That is completly unacceptable in my opinion. 88 Degrees are way to high. Even the 74 degrees on 30A are at Li-Pol from my experience too high. Li-Pol tends to blow at high tempertures and I don´t want to know, what konsequences it can have. You can not compare Li-Pol to Li-Ion like they were the same.
     
  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    LiPo is Li-Ion though...just one of the many different Li-Ion chemistries. The lowest temperature I’ve ever seen listed in a paper for LCO (the chemistry in a LiPo) for thermal runaway was 130°C. Easily reach during a short circuit but quite difficult otherwise.
     
  10. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    IMO, that’s too high to ensure decent cycle life.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    That is exactly, what I was trying to explain. Li-Pol batteries shows a great performance at the beginning, however and especially those that are cobalt based are losing from my experience with small drones, or aircrafts very fast on their cycle-life.
    Since there are no further information from the manufacturer I can just assume (maybe you can confirm that?!), that after few cycles, where the temperture raises above 40°C (=104 °F) the battery loses very fast on performance.
    At the time I was a student and could afford a free time :( we used to gather every weekend and play around with small aircrafts. We used all different types of Li-Pol from Hobby-King: Radio Control Planes, Drones, Cars, FPV, Quadcopters and more - Hobbyking
    Very seldom you could use those batteries after around 20-30 cycles...
     
  12. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Anyone that vapes on an ampdraw of 40A doesn't care too much for cyclelife anyways. At least this cell won't blow up in his face right away.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. I KILL U

    I KILL U Full Member

    Sep 4, 2018
    LCO? LiCoO2,
    Now Co quotes 56USD/KG, and cathode material accounts for about 40%. If 21700 is made of this material, the factory cost exceeds 4USD, which is very unrealistic.
    Almost no factory now uses LCO, and LCO is not suitable for high currents.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks Super Member

    Aug 18, 2018
    So in a mech or a pwm will this hit like a real packaged lipo?
     
  15. dripster

    dripster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    By not letting the battery temperature rise above 45°C it is still very much possible to very significantly extend the cycle life, and that is regardless of whether you vape at 40A on a 30A battery. Aside from wanting to chain vape more aggressively, there is no real reason to let the battery temperature reach much higher than that, as keeping the temperature reasonably low and taking the necessary precautions to ensure that it stays reasonably low (i.e., in order to provide a reasonable amount of headroom) is also going to help mitigate the risk of battery venting in the possible event that something goes wrong with the mod.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Sure. Because we're pulsing our cells we'll most probably only reach those max temps when there's an autofire malfunction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. dripster

    dripster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    Or when there's an accidental long button press that can happen whilst leaving the mod unattended, e.g. after putting the mod in a pocket or bag in such a way that something (or someone) might inadvertently press and hold the button for a long period. Or if the user in question isn't knowledgeable enough to pulse their cells in such a particular way that it allows this same user to keep the battery temperature adequately under his/her control, e.g. excessively keep chain vaping it till the cell boils instead of applying a bit of mostly common sense.
     
  18. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    But isn´t it, what we are mostly talking about? The batteries should be as safe as we can have, in order to eliminate any dangerous events, that can be caused by a faulty hardware.
    IMO as long as we can not varify and compare details of the manufacturer with the "branded" battery, we can not give this battery any recommendation.
     
  19. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    We have to be careful about using the case temperature to judge though when pulsing at high current levels. There is hotspotting in cells which spreads out to fairly low temps once it reaches the case. Pulsing at high current levels also causes accelerated aging of certain compounds, without a huge temperature rise, but I don’t remember which.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    At about 45°C you can start to get measurable effects on cycle life. This will change though based on the chemistry and discharge current profile (pulsed or continuous). Aging continues at any temperature though.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice