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Bench Test Results: Sony VTC6A 18650 Samples...beats VTC5A, estimated 2900-3000mAh, 20-25A

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Feb 1, 2018.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    These tests below only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.

    Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved, understands the risks, has the proper equipment, and takes all appropriate safety precautions.

    If the battery has only one current rating number, or if it only says "max", then I have to assume the battery is rated at that current level for any type of discharge, including continuous.

    8CD7CF4C-1E0B-4459-9827-81BE9D97FF4E.jpeg 45990D70-98EE-4043-A0E6-F9F7B8AD4EEB.jpeg 753785E1-21F9-4E97-8E1C-498741C6E9DE.jpeg E9101C01-7B08-46E1-A92C-2BC3168D957C.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    I received two pre-production or early production samples for testing from Vapcell. I was told that they will not be generally available for several months, perhaps the end of the year. I do not know who has them in stock now or when they will.

    I am testing them now because of the large number of requests I received and to let vendors know how they perform. I will retest these when full production quantities are available as Sony might make small changes to the cell’s performance before then.

    The two samples of the VTC6A I tested easily outperformed the VTC6. While the VTC5A hit a tiny bit harder than the VTC6A at the start of the discharge the VTC6A outperformed the VTC5A for the rest of it, especially at higher current levels. This is a great battery.

    For a 20A continuous discharge the VTC6A runs at the same temperature as the VTC6 does at 15A. Sony will probably rate the VTC6A at about 5A higher than the VTC6. This means a continuous current rating of 20A for the VTC6A with temperature-limited operation at some point above that. My preliminary estimate for the VTC6A’s current rating is 20A, up to 25A if the temperature is kept below 80°C. This can change at any time as I learn more about this cell.

    The VTC6A’s I tested delivered 2892mAh and 3008mAh at 0.5A. This is a larger than typical cell-to-cell variation for Sony cells. I don’t know why. The capacity might change a bit before the cells are available in full production quantities but I am estimating the VTC6A’s rating at 2900mAh minimum and 3000mAh typical.

    I have requested a copy of the datasheet but no one has it yet.

    Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (www.vapcelltech). Thank you!


    Continuous Current Discharge Graph
    33DB8525-51EF-472F-B386-CBB5847FC92B.jpeg


    Comparisons to VTC6 and VTC5A
    0D4D4F16-A77F-4FDA-9DFA-458D6976477E.jpeg 35496FC9-12D3-400D-8173-8483F463DC30.jpeg


    Ratings Graphic
    71946655-C6B1-49D8-B520-FCEF2C5D2B43.jpeg


    Performance Specs
    The internal resistance and watt-hour testing will be done on the full production cells.


    Comments
    To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
     
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  2. Heartsdelight

    Heartsdelight Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 10, 2015
    Thanks Mooch! Something to look forward to if the quality remains the same.
     
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  3. neyel8r

    neyel8r Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 23, 2014
    just bought some 5As & will probably get some of these when available... thanks for the comparison graphs
     
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  4. Derek Cross

    Derek Cross Senior Member

    May 16, 2015
    The vtcA is my all time favorite cell for mechanicals( well for 18650's,since the 20650 lg seems to hit just as hard but for longer) and im excited for the preliminary findings you posted for this cell. Mooch,in real world vaping ,would one notice the small difference in volt drop with the cells youve tested when compared to the 5A, or would this be too small of a difference to discern?
     
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  5. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Very nice. Not up to M-Tech cells, of course, but not bad at all :)
     
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  6. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Some don’t notice it but many say it’s clear as day. No one has done the double-blind tests we would need to know for sure.
     
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  7. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Thank you Mooch :)

    Anna
     
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  8. marco_sc

    marco_sc New Member

    Feb 11, 2018
    Many many thank you Mooch! :)

    Someone knows the release date of these new batteries and/or where to buy? I didn't find nothing up to now..
     
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  9. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    From Mooch's post:
    "Bottom Line
    I received two pre-production or early production samples for testing from Vapcell. I was told that they will not be generally available for several months, perhaps the end of the year. I do not know who has them in stock now or when they will."
     
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  10. marco_sc

    marco_sc New Member

    Feb 11, 2018
    It's not compliant with my question. My intent was to extend the question to other members. I was reporting what I'm looking for, and if somebody is also interested could be updated by me or vice versa.

    Thanks anyway :)
     
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  11. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    I would imagine Vape Cell would have an answer, since they sent the pre-production samples to Mooch.
    Vape Cell - UK's #1 of Genuine & Trusted 18650 Batteries - Vape Cell
     
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  12. Thank you very much for the test. Don't get mad at me!! First I must say that I use these high drain cells in my MODDED flashlights.

    From what I see in the voltage curves b/w the VTC5A[My favorite battery] is that the VTC6A does NOT take over until ~ 3.60v. At that point the VTC5A starts to sag more.

    For me that is irrelevant because I use the cells for 15 to 20 minutes before I put a fresh one in.At that point the VTC5A is b/w 3.76v and 3.84v...depending on which torch I use. For me, the VTC5A has less voltage sag and is a better battery.

    I do not know anything about vape mods. Still, I do not see how the VTC6A would be better with the exception of more run time[?] but with less kick until ~ 3.6V.

    How much value is a battery when it is at 3.6v?

    Maybe I am missing something?

    ,,,,,,,,Thanks
     
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  13. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Most batteries can be drained in a regulated mod down to the processor's cut off, usually 3.2 - 3.4 volts. This is possible because of the "regulator" in the chip which allows the battery output to match the wattage setting via "boost" technology.

    With an unregulated mech mod (no regulator or chip) its a different story altogether. As the battery drains there is a gradual but consistant drop in the quality of the vape as the voltage of the battery declines, and the closer one gets to a certain point of diminished vape quality is when the battery will need to be exchanged for a charged battery.
     
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  14. OK,,,Thanks. It sounds like vapers would benefit from the VTC6A over the VTC5A because of what you described.

    For me, the Flashaholic[!!!],,the VTC5A is better because of what I mentioned.

    A modified light[V54] using a quality high drain @ 3.6v is noticeably weaker which is easily detectable by the eye.. I am guessing it lost at least ~ 50% of its capacity.

    I recall another battery guy saying that a cell @ 3.60V is basically empty as far as the ability to maintain high output for a flashlight.

    Thanks again for explaining that. I learned something about vaping.
     
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  15. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    Where are you buying the VTC6As?
     
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  16. ^^^^

    I do not have any. I was looking at Mooch's graph comparison w/ the VTC5A.
     
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  17. Still trying to comprehend all of this.

    This and my other post are based on the graph mooch posted of the VTC5A VS.VTC6A.

    According to MOOCH'S graph the VTC5A has LESS voltage sag than the VTC6A up to ~ 3.6V.

    How could one benefit more from 3.6V to the cut off of 3.4V to 3.2V than 4.2v to 3.6v where the VTC5A has less voltage sag and the battery has a lot more juice?

    Isn't there a lot more vape time[run time] from 4.2v to 3.6v where the VTC5A is clearly better,even if it is slight?

    Still trying to grasp why the VTC6A would be better, even though I know it has more capacity.

    Maybe the regulator extends the vape time even more with the VTC6A than the VTC5A even though the VTC5A has less voltage sag until ~ 3.6V?

    ,,,,,,Thanks
     
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  18. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    An unregulated mech mod works along the same principles as your flashlight does. Performance depends solely upon the battery voltage available. Voltage sag does indeed affect a mech mod, but not as much as one might think.

    A regulated mod with a electronic chip as a regulator, works differently than a flashlight. The chip is a mini-computer, and makes up for any battery voltage sag (or at least it should) because it makes internal adjustments to fire up the atomizer to keep the output at the setting the user demands regardless of the voltage available in the battery (up until the cutoff point of the chip). The regulator chip "regulates" the power. Think along the lines of a thermostat on a furnace; the thermostat keeps the temperature at the setting the user demands.

    As long as the battery has the minimum (3.2 volts) or more voltage available to fire the atomizer, the vape quality will not suffer until the cutoff is reached. The more mAh (capacity) a battery has, the longer the user can vape on that battery.
     
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  19. ^^^^

    oK,,Thanks. Good explanation!,,,,,,,,,,I understand it now. :D
     
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