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Bench Test Results: Vapcell Blue 30A 3750mAh 21700...accurately rated, great performer

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Jan 28, 2019.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    These tests below only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, Murata, LG, Panasonic, Molicel, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. Use of these batteries is AT YOUR OWN RISK. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.

    Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved, understands the risks, has the proper equipment, and takes all appropriate safety precautions.

    If the battery has only one current rating number, or if it only says "max", then I have to assume the battery is rated at that current level for any type of discharge, including continuous.

    2A2C7710-189C-4322-A4A1-569AC73B9198.jpeg 5799B77C-01B2-4AB0-B067-7C4F0BD35486.jpeg 23E459AC-7675-4595-ABFA-C8A1BD83B1F7.jpeg 3D614087-6810-48B7-9FD7-814882562496.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    This cell is accurately rated and is a great performer, beating the Samsung 40T at above 20A-25A or so. Below 20A-25A the 40T performs better due to its higher capacity. The Samsung 30T is still the top performer though for above 25A. It appears to be the same cell used by the Golisi S35 and others.

    What is both very interesting and of great concern is that the MSDS for this cell from Vapcell identifies it as NMC chemistry (nickel-manganese-cobalt), a common chemistry for cells used by vapers. But Golisi’s MSDS identifies it as LCO (lithium-cobalt-oxide) chemistry which is the same as used by LiPo’s. There are almost no round cells made with LCO chemistry anymore though due to the high cost of cobalt and the brutal price competition between the round cell manufacturers.

    A third MSDS for what I also think is this cell identifies it as an NMC-plus-other-chemistry mix or an LCO cell, depending on where you look. Frustrating, to say the least. I can’t prove which is the correct MSDS yet and my investigation of all this, and other cells, is ongoing.

    The capacities for the two cells I tested were 3778mAh and 3803mAh at 750mA (0.2C) down to 2.5V. This is okay consistency and typical of the China-manufactured cells.

    I am giving the Vapcell a continuous current rating of 30A and a capacity rating of 3750mAh.

    Two cells were purchased for the purposes of testing by me.


    Continuous Current Discharge Graphs
    F60AF893-7D87-49FE-9CDD-952944700575.jpeg E2029026-84D4-49FC-99F1-DEDFF19097BD.jpeg


    Ratings Graphic
    B19C553D-6B80-40AE-A0C1-994358820A7D.jpeg


    Performance Specs
    - DC Internal Resistance = 16.0mOhms (milliohms) average for the two cells.
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 10A continuous = 10.1Wh
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 20A continuous = 8.6Wh
    - Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 30A continuous = 6.7Wh

    I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: Battery Mooch is creating battery tests and educating vapers | Patreon.

    To see how other cells have tested check out this link: List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
  2. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    Thank you very mooch :D again and again and again for the great job you do.
    I was wondering, if it is possible after so many batteries you had seen to predict the chemistry of the battery according to the structure of the discharging curve?
    We see differences between LCO, Mixed chemistry, Li-Mn etc., I mean when I see a discharge curve of Li-Po I can already recognize it according to my experience - how about you?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    A low impedance LCO chemistry cell is fairly easy to spot due to the linearity and “flatness” of the discharge curve but only when compared to a higher impedance cell using a different chemistry. Telling the difference between mid to high impedance cells of different chemistries is a lot harder IMO.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Considering performance only and ignoring temperature the graphs show the opposite, because at 30A the 40T runs for longer and at a higher voltage.
     
  5. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    How can you possibly ignore temperature? It determines not only cycle life but safety too, all part of a cell’s performance.

    Yes, for those who want to ignore that you get more delivered energy with a 40T.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you.
    Just playing advocatus diaboli here;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    My apologies, I was harsh in my reply.
    Been thinking...I think a lot of vapers don’t consider temperature and cycle life, only how hard it hits or Wh delivered. I think I might need to repost this.

    Thank you for your message pointing out the Wh performance differences!
     
  8. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    I think, that in regulated Mods actually the Wh as a total sum of Energy is more important than capacity.
    Especially if we consider the constant step-up in the mods, the performance of the Voltage is a major indicator, of how warm the mod would be.
    We are talking here according to my understanding about 2 different types of creating a heat:
    1. The battery itself while discharging
    2. The Mod due to his electronics
     
  9. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Agreed, the Wh spec is MUCH more important.

    A step-down (buck) regulator operates more efficiently (to a point) with a lower battery voltage though. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. dripster

    dripster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    Chain vaping at only 100 watts using dual Sony VTC6 in the Asmodus Minikin you can still get noticeably more vaping time by going for the Sony VTC5A instead, and that is despite I heard you say they should be about equal performance using them at that particular wattage setting. So in my view there often tends to be a bit of a discrepancy between theory and practice because a lot also depends on the chip itself, how it reacts to the voltage sag behavior of the batteries as well, i.e. not just the regulator circuit alone. :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    No, not equal performance. At 50W per cell you are near the crossover point where neither is inherently the better choice. It all comes down to how you vape and the mod. As you noted, that can mean either is the better performer.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    No need to apologize.;)
    In fact cyclelife is more important to me thant wh.
    I'm more of a mid-wattage (30-40W per cell) vaper and have utilized many different cells, and when it comes to 18650s for example, I have come to the conclusion that after just a few cycles the VTC5A, Sanyo NSX and to a lesser degree the Samsung 25R perform equal to their 3000mah cousins LG HG2, Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6 in overall runtime, pumping out around 49000J.
    After that the discrepancies grow, with the 3000mah cells slowly falling behind their 2500mah competitors, and after about a year the latter have to be replaced, because voltage sags far too quickly, while the former still offer good performance.
     
  13. dripster

    dripster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2017
    Belgium
    That's why I said about equal, not equal. But many people seem to wrongfully assume that the "about" part cannot imply more than just a few percent difference, when the reality is that this difference can be as significant as a whopping 20 percent (crossover point closer to 80 watts instead of being around 100).
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. sk8sara8

    sk8sara8 New Member

    Feb 3, 2019
    HI Mooch 1st of all thank you for all the wisdom you share with us about batteries and the same time battery safety. I'm a person that always want to know stuff that no one even thinks of so i think youre the one that could help me, you know the OBS Cube Mod they state they have a 23600 battery ive never heard of that and the thing is OBS does not give an stats of what the mod is capable not talking in wattage or volts but the AMP output wich is something that i consider important i there any chance you have any knowledge related to this.

    Regards
     
  15. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Sorry, I don’t know anything about that battery. For any internal battery mod we can only hope that they have selected a battery that is well matched to the max power setting of the mod.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
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