The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Bench Test Results: Vapcell Gold 30A 3100mAh 20700..a great 30A battery, beats VTC5A and 5-leg 20700

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Mar 9, 2018.

Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    These tests below only note the estimated ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

    Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.

    Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never, ever, be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved, understands the risks, has the proper equipment, and takes all appropriate safety precautions.

    If the battery has only one current rating number, or if it only says "max", then I have to assume the battery is rated at that current level for any type of discharge, including continuous.

    BC00C54D-F886-419F-83A2-D9BE1A52C7BA.jpeg 98E3FE66-0187-4EAA-AC3E-7559E9105E88.jpeg AEE556D4-AB45-489D-8F84-AD38D07DAA13.jpeg 4352EC73-A058-4E0A-B7EF-CA7AFD2FE1EF.jpeg


    Bottom Line
    This cell was a joy to test. It performed well, both its continuous current and capacity ratings are accurate, and only the continuous current rating is on the wrap of the cell.

    This Vapcell outperforms both the Sony VTC5A and the 5-leg top contact 20700’s, hitting harder and running for longer. This cell roughly matches the Sanyo NCR20700A at 10A but the Sanyo is still the better performer at high current levels.

    Both cells I tested delivered more than 3100mAh when discharged at 0.5A down to 2.5V. I am estimating this Vapcell’s ratings at 30A and 3100mAh.

    Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Vapcell (Vapcell batteries, chargers, vape batteries). Thank you!


    Continuous Current Discharge Graph
    097AED1E-8F16-46F8-92FC-B931D483B072.jpeg


    Comparison to Other Cells
    706A714C-569F-4DEA-A7AF-9C2F75A0F99D.jpeg 3FE88F0E-C142-4DE1-A1EC-3B702CA140AA.jpeg 6D813A48-B496-4420-8F71-42E961BD1D62.jpeg


    Ratings Graphic
    3D0F07EE-4C6D-45B6-99F4-119ED609F509.jpeg


    Performance Specs
    • DC Internal Resistance = 15.5mOhms (milliohms) average for the two cells.
    • Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 10A continuous = 9.7Wh (Watt-hours) average
    • Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 20A continuous = data unavailable
    • Total energy delivered down to 3.2V at 30A continuous = 5.5Wh (Watt-hours) average

    Comments
    • Vapcell paid a fee to be moved to the front of the testing queue, which currently has a 10-12 week backlog. This cannot influence my test results as they pay in advance, have no say about what is in this report, and I don’t care if any company never does this or donates batteries again. My reputation is a lot more important than any battery donation or payment.
    • To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Derek Cross

    Derek Cross Senior Member ECF Veteran

    May 16, 2015
    Wow! Another great cell. Sorry but do you have any links to where these may be purchased?

    I know you cant purchase a Sanyo 20700A as of yet, but theres a guy on ebay who works hard at "mining" these cells (the elusive Sanyo NCR20700A) from power tool packs and so far, everyone who has bought one says theyre awesome,and perform unlike any other 20700 cell in a mechanical setup.

    Mooch do you feel this is a safe buy if the person pulling these cells from powertool battery packs is doing everything correctly? He shows you the soder marks on the neg and pos ends of the cells, and again, people have had no complaints after purchasing from him thus far.

    I guess what im asking is, if the cells are coming from fresh power packs, are they going to be like brand new batteries if he is mining them in a safe and correct manner?

    Thanks again for your hard work!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Sorry, I don’t.

    Safe? There is no “safe” use of a battery that was never meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. All we can do is try to minimize the risks. Harvesting cells is riskier than using non-harvested (genuine) cells. I couldn’t possibly predict the safety of hand harvested cells I’ve never seen or tested. :) Each of us has to decide what level of risk we will take.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    I agree with Mooch for 100%. Some big manufacturer of applications are using so-called modified Li-Ion batteries. In this case the manufacturer of the Li-Ion-Cells like Samsung SDI, Sony, LG Chem, Panasonic etc. modify a certain cell for the special needs of their customer. There are different kinds of modifications, like in order to raise cycle-life etc. So you always have a certain risk to get a battery that does not really meet its published specification.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    I’m waiting on my new Lost Vape “Mirage” mod. I have plenty of 18650 batteries which this mod can use, but it also takes 20700 batteries. So I’m disappointed to find that the good ones are impossible to find. Then I learned this size is popular for the newest electric cars, DUH!

    Making matters worse was today’s online announcement that VW just made a 25 billion dollar deal with a few battery companies to supply them for a large lineup of new VW electric cars. One of those companies is Sanyo. If this Vapcell is rewrap of the Sanyo 20700a, it’s going to be even harder to find either of these two cells. It also may mean an upsurge in FAKES and PHONY REWRAPS! Guess I’ll have to stick with my 18650’s and the adapter. :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    VW uses large prismatic cells, not cylindrical ones. That contract might have an effect on the price of raw materials like lithium and cobalt, but it should not affect the availability of cells in the form-factors we use.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    Hi Rossum - you are right, those automative batteries are prismatic ones, however the production capacities of the manufacturer "suffers" a lot, so most probably we would have a big shortage on batteries. Heard from a guy who is working in this area, that LG Chem works together with some car manufacturer on solutions for electric cars...no wonder, that you hardly can find HG2 currently.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    IMR is stocked:
    LG HG2 18650 3000mAh 20A Battery
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. untar

    untar Ultra Member

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
    No problem to find the HG2 in the EU as well, major battery sellers have hundreds of them.
    LG have updated their wrap it seems
    [​IMG]
    maybe that contributes to some stores not having them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    Try and find a Sanyo 20700a, or it’s rewrapped Vapcell gold version. I’m fine with many 18650 cells, most in my frig.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    Lets talk about this thread in around 2-3 months, as soon as all batteries stocked by retailers and vendors will be gone :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    Hi mooch.
    Question

    I don't understand why you measure a bigger cell (20700) to a smaller cell (18650). To me it would be a no brainer to simply figure the bigger one would out do the smaller one. More chemical in the bigger one to be able to better outperform the smaller one. to my thinking it's like comparing apples to oranges. I would think anyway. So why do that!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  14. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    The VTC5A outperforms most of the 20700’s and 21700’s. Size doesn’t necessarily affect internal resistance and raw performance It’s more of an indicator of capacity.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    TY. Makes me take a closer look to if I want to lug around a heavier mod with (depending on battery) less head room due to a weaker then a 18650 sony vtc5a.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    One more thing. I was taking a look at your results for the Sony vtc5a and decided to compare them with this cell. While you show on the graph the vapcell out performing the vtc5a (which it should or one would hope it would). I have to ask! were your testing perimeters different here on this cell then they were on the day you tested the Sony vtc5a? I ask because the charts don't match (at least in Amphours on the vtc5a chart to this one). Now I can guess that maybe you tested a different sony 18650. But would they be so vastly far from one another in AH? Yes both charts list 2.6 AH in the text at the top I guess as testing, but the lines show different. I stay confused. Yes we are only talking approx. 500 +- AH (1850wh @3.7v) difference, but it is a loss in one and not the other and still wouldn't change that the vapcell would still better the vtc5a. But o.c.d. kicking in makes me look close. I still don't think the small differences is worth the extra weight of a mod using them. Now if at a later date we can get better 20700 and 21700s, well then, it might actually be worth it. IMO and mine alone, I'll hold out on the bigger battery mods until I see better results from the batteries. Just not enough difference at the moment to equate to carrying any more weight around even if it is only in a few ounce difference.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    One of those graphs is my fuller discharge for testing a cell, down to 2.8V. The other is a more “typical” usage discharge used when directly comparing cells, down to 3.2V.

    The difference in delivered capacity between those two cutoff voltages can be considerable.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
  18. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    TY Mooch.
    Perhaps I'm being obstinate. But I drive an over the road 18wheeler and have for 15 years + before that, I was a licensed A&P aircraft mech.. It's just that to me, (as I've already stated) comparing a bigger battery to a smaller one is a bit unfair. I can no more compare a car battery to my truck battery, anymore than I can an aircraft battery to either of them. Both vehicle batteries are 12 volts, but one defiantly has more amp output and of course runtime even without a alternator to keep it at it's charged rate. Why! The truck battery has more plates in it. It'll certainly start a car, but a car battery, unless new or close to it, won't have the umph to turn the starter over on my rig ( takes more cca than a car takes). Though I have had to try it on a few occasions. Best scenario has been simply to use the small battery to jump my bigger one that lost a cell or two from vibration. (not as much a problem in the newer truck batteries of today but still can be)

    Don't get me wrong. I love that we have you in the vaping community and I've for years followed your charts and advise on various battery reports. Just this one got to me with the comparison. Cuz I'm defiantly a nut case fan boy of Sony batteries. Day in and Day out they have continually out performed everything, I've put them up against. Samsungs are nice, but I've gone through a couple of sets of them, yet to date, I still have my very first two sony vtc5's I bought 4 years ago. They aren't holding up in vape usage as long as they did, when they were brand new, but they still have a good 90 % of their capacity. And even today I use them.

    TY for your time. I know you're a busy guy so I won't bug you any more.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Robin Becker

    Robin Becker Senior Member

    Feb 3, 2018
    Berlin
    Hi Tony M I think it is OK to compare 2 different battery sizes, that can be used in the same application - why not?
    Mooch wanted to show (must probably), how the new size of 20700 (or 21700) outperform in comparison to the up-to-date highest Discharge-Current-18650 on the market.
    Since we are talking about the same type of Li-Ion batteries (same voltage, similar chemistry) it is more than OK to show the difference.
    Imaging you were a power-tool manufacturer who has to decide, which battery he will use for his new driller?!
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Thank you for your thoughts!
    I am asked quite often to directly compare the performance of the newer 20mm cells to the good 18650’s. Many vapers use devices that can accept multiple battery sizes and the only thing they are concerned about is what’s the best cell for the way they vape...of any size. They don’t care if it’s an 18650, 20700, 20650, or 21700. They just want the hardest hitting battery out there or the highest capacity battery over a certain current rating, etc.

    I rarely get a chance to put in the time to test something or compare performance of different batteries just because I want to. The vast majority of the time my tests and shootouts (between batteries) are in response to requests.

    For those who want to only use the best cell of a particular size the test results are still good for determining that. :)
     
    • Informative Informative x 3

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice