Best device for vaporizing loose tobacco (HTPs)

[Piruz]

So I've been reading this 4 year old thread about vaporizing tobacco by this member GivingUp and I'm really impressed with the idea. Like so many people I've tried to ditch smoking in favor of vaping. I tried to get myself to like it by experimenting with all kinds of set-ups, but it doesn't like me, so when I came across heat-not-burn, I thought this just might be it.

Obviously, dry herb vaporizers are overpriced so it behooves one to do plenty of research before making any purchase and any input is much appreciated as I really can't wait to quit smoking. I'm looking to vape loose Dokha tobacco, which is a very dry and fine-shredded tobacco. It's extremely potent nicotine wise so used in very small amounts (kind of like concentrates in dry herb vaporizers so that's one problem solved function wise). The tobacco is so fresh it's still green and has no additives of any sort.

What's the best device that would theoretically extract the most from this tobacco?

Also I'd appreciate it if members could share their experiences if they'd switched from smoking tobacco to vaporizing it and how it affected their experience and, most importantly, their health.

 

[Izan]

Hi and welcome,
In your situation, I would invest in a vapcap from Vaporizers
It will be, imo, the closest experience to smoking with a Medwakh.

What is your budget and where are you located?
Do you want a unit for home use or something portable?
Flame or battery powered?

Cheers
I

 

[Piruz]

Well, we're in lockdown over here in the UK so work isn't great can barely afford paying my bills but if something is worth it then I'll make the investment anyway because I'm tired of all the wheezing and mucus.

I don't mind if it's flame powered as long as that doesn't affect the quality and amount of vapor. I've come across the Dynavap before but is it really 100% vaporization (no combustion involved) and are there any other health safety concerns regarding how it works?

 

[CAAB]

I went down this line of inquiry as well. My reasoning was because I wanted to sample tobaccos before I invested the time in effort in creating a PG or VG extract. Here is the thread:

NET E-Liquid vs Dry Herb Vaporizer

I also contacted @GivingUp and he said that he stopped doing the dry herb vaporizer because of the hassle of preparation. So he started using IQOS, which has worked really well for him.

Regarding the health aspects, I can't offer any solid information. I doubt anyone could at this point. But my theory is that the dry herb vaping is going to be a lot less unhealthy than smoking, because combustion is what produces a lot of the toxins, where dry vaping is literally vaporizing the herb. But you're still getting nitrosamines and other unpleasant things naturally occurring in the tobacco plant.

I believe that naturally extracted tobaccos in VG or PG or going to be even less unhealthy than dry herb vaping because you tend to dilute the extract in eliquid, so you end up with less nitrosamines and such.

So if you are a fan of that Dokha, you could try dry herb vaporizing it to get away from combustion, but also steep a jar of it in PG or VG/PGA for 6 months. After 6 months, strain the tobacco out and filter it. Then you have a filtered extract of Dokha that you can add to an unflavored eliquid. For single leaf tobacco, I find for me that a ratio of 25% - 30% extract to eliquid is a good range. But you could try higher if you really want a lot of flavor.

One thing to note, when you make a PG or VG/PGA extract of Dokha, it's not going to taste the same as smoking it. It's going to taste a lot more like the leaf itself without the burn quality. But you could try steeping something smokier and bolder like a latakia and then maybe add 1-2% of latakia extract to your Dokha eliquid if it is not bold and smoky enough.

Looking ahead though, if you end up liking what you make, you could try reducing your concentration over time or maybe substituting the DIY Dokha for a flavored eliquid until you are off tobacco in any form entirely. That would be the surest form of risk reduction.

The nice thing about eliquid is that you would be able to reduce your nicotine concentration over time as well.

 

[Piruz]

Thanks for the input. I've come to realize that extracted nicotine (both freebase and salt) just isn't for me. As low as 6mg can irritate my airways and cause symptoms all over the body (and this is coming from someone who regularly smokes the strongest nicotiana tabacum leaf). The same goes for PG, which has the ability to irritate me even in small portions but is nonetheless essential for carrying flavor or steeping in DIY.

As you can see, all the roads to vaping are closed

This is why I would like to invest in dry herb vaporizing. The fact that zero combustion is involved should be more than enough incentive, since most smoking-related illnesses come from combustion (carbon monoxide and tar).

I'm going to have to take a closer look at that thread, though.

 

[CAAB]

Out of curiosity, do you know if the nicotine you tried was PG or VG based? Also, was it from the same vendor? Perhaps it has something to do with the vendor or extraction method. I source mine from a company that uses CO2 extraction method with organic tobacco.

There is also tobacco free nicotine (TFN) that you might have better luck with. Very expensive though.

Instead of PG, a small amount of distilled water or PGA can be used to thin out an eliquid.

Anyway, not to push you towards eliquid, just giving some ideas in that direction.

Regarding the vapcap, I read that since it is not tailored towards tobacco, you have to stop heating it up before it clicks. Usually clicking is an indicator it is ready, but in the case of tobacco, I read that is too harsh.

You can get bubblers that work with the vapcap that will cool down the vape and moisturize it, that might help give you a gentler vape as well.

I was kind of interested in this device as well that would allow you to use a regular mod with temp control, so you could get the heat just right to avoid burning: Gen 2 DC Ceramic Rebuildable Dry Herb Atomizer - Divine Tribe

 

[CAAB]

Also snus I forgot to mention. Just in case you haven't looked into it.

 

[Territoo]

PEG (polyethylene glycol) is also an option for those sensitive to PG.

 

[Piruz]

PEG (polyethylene glycol) is also an option for those sensitive to PG.

Isn't it toxic though?

 

[Piruz]

Out of curiosity, do you know if the nicotine you tried was PG or VG based? Also, was it from the same vendor? Perhaps it has something to do with the vendor or extraction method. I source mine from a company that uses CO2 extraction method with organic tobacco.

There is also tobacco free nicotine (TFN) that you might have better luck with. Very expensive though.

Instead of PG, a small amount of distilled water or PGA can be used to thin out an eliquid.

Anyway, not to push you towards eliquid, just giving some ideas in that direction.

Regarding the vapcap, I read that since it is not tailored towards tobacco, you have to stop heating it up before it clicks. Usually clicking is an indicator it is ready, but in the case of tobacco, I read that is too harsh.

You can get bubblers that work with the vapcap that will cool down the vape and moisturize it, that might help give you a gentler vape as well.

I was kind of interested in this device as well that would allow you to use a regular mod with temp control, so you could get the heat just right to avoid burning: Gen 2 DC Ceramic Rebuildable Dry Herb Atomizer - Divine Tribe

I've really tried just about every set-up I could think of. At first the PG appeared to irritate me, so I switched to 100 VG and got my nic salt from Nicotinehub. I tried both sub ohm and regular tanks but it's always something. Finally, I tried very low nicotine juices and the irritation wasn't as bad, but it did build up after 7 or 9 puffs and I really don't want to have to go through all these symptoms every time I want to satiate my nicotine cravings.

Regarding the Dynvap, are you saying there's a chance it might combust my tobacco if I stop heating when it clicks (or just that the vapor will be too thick)? Does tobacco vaporize at lower temperatures than weed?

Also if a device with adjustable tempereture is all I need, then why the Gen 2 DC atomizer (it doesn't look as handy as other devices)?

 

[Territoo]

Isn't it toxic though?

No, just like PG, PEG is found in a lot of every day products.

"Sometimes two compounds have similar-sounding names but would be disastrous if confused. Polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol are two of these substances. While the first is a common ingredient in medications, the latter is a highly toxic industrial product."

---from the article Polyethylene glycol and Ethylene glycol

 

[AttyPops]

But can also cause allergic reactions...
This came up as a suspect recently with the CV-19 vaccines and PEG. (but is rare, and it's in a lot of things, like was said).

 

[CAAB]

One more thing I will mention regarding the eliquid and then I won't bring it up again, because it sounds like you did a lot of research. If it were me, I would try a different nicotine vendor, get a small amount just to try, and make sure the nicotine is in VG, not PG. But I can totally see if you're done going down that road.

Regarding the Dynvap, are you saying there's a chance it might combust my tobacco if I stop heating when it clicks (or just that the vapor will be too thick)? Does tobacco vaporize at lower temperatures than weed?

I am not sure because I have never tried it myself, I only read that someone reported a harsh vape when heating it to clicking. In my very unscientific reasoning, I would assume it's kind of like putting bread in the toaster, you just have to find what the right setting is for you before you burn the toast.

I imagine looking at your spent chamber of tobacco in the Dynavap will tell you if you have gone too far. And also the flavor will tell you something I imagine. But I can only guess that it is better than smoking something where you are burning it down to ash. But if you wanted to get more scientific you could look up what the various compounds are in tobacco and what temperature they vaporize at and then find out the temperature at which the Dynavap clicks.

Also if a device with adjustable tempereture is all I need, then why the Gen 2 DC atomizer (it doesn't look as handy as other devices)?

I bring this device up because if you have a temperature control mod with a 510 connection, then this would be a cheap way to delve into dry herb vaporizing without having to get a more expensive device. But if you find something that better suits you, by all means go with that.

The temperature control I mention because then you could reduce the hypothetical risk of overheating the tobacco. I cannot define the temperature at which tobacco is overheated or what is released at various temperatures. I can only give a best guess that the lower temperature for a satisfying vape for you would be a less unhealthy option. But then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Piruz]

One more thing I will mention regarding the eliquid and then I won't bring it up again, because it sounds like you did a lot of research. If it were me, I would try a different nicotine vendor, get a small amount just to try, and make sure the nicotine is in VG, not PG. But I can totally see if you're done going down that road.

No that's totally fine. The nic salt I bought was suspended in 100% VG with no traces of alcohol, PG or anything else (except the nicotine salt, of course). Even the flavor concentrate was 100 VG. It all really felt just as bad as freebase in regular e-juice (and I had tried many, including some of the best such as Nasty Juice). I don't think it's about the vendor.

I bring this device up because if you have a temperature control mod with a 510 connection, then this would be a cheap way to delve into dry herb vaporizing without having to get a more expensive device. But if you find something that better suits you, by all means go with that.

The temperature control I mention because then you could reduce the hypothetical risk of overheating the tobacco. I cannot define the temperature at which tobacco is overheated or what is released at various temperatures. I can only give a best guess that the lower temperature for a satisfying vape for you would be a less unhealthy option. But then again, I could be wrong.

Sorry what's a 510 connection? If you mean just any device with a screen and manual temperature control, then I see your point. But really, does any dry-herb device come anywhere near combustion level for tobacco or weed (even at max temp)?

 

[CAAB]

Sorry what's a 510 connection? If you mean just any device with a screen and manual temperature control, then I see your point. But really, does any dry-herb device come anywhere near combustion level for tobacco or weed (even at max temp)?

510 is the standard size for the threaded connection between an atomizer and a mod. They call it 510 because it is 5mm and 10 threads. I don't know dry herb vaporizers well but my impression is that they are an integrated system, they don't have separate atomizers that are screwed on with a 510 connector.

The idea is that if you have a mod you were using for eliquid that accepts the standard 510 atomizer and it has good temp control, then you could just try a dry herb atomizer with a 510 connector instead of blowing the bank on a good dedicated dry herb vaporizer. But it's possible it would make more sense for you just to buy a dedicated dry herb vaporizer. It depends on what you can find and what your budget is.

Regarding combustion, I imagine anything that runs on wattage mode would eventually get hot enough to combust if you kept your finger on the button long enough. But maybe even in temp control if the temp was set hot enough for long enough, it would combust. I am not sure.

 

[Piruz]

Oh okay I see your point about the 510. But a mod regulates wattage not temperature so how does it work? Anyway this is a perfect solution for someone who would like to experiment before making the switch to heat not burn and thanks a lot for mentioning it. I have a SMOK RHA85 and it accepts 510 so it should work.

It's only conduction though, I mean not even hybrid so chances of combustion are pretty high no? I mean I'm always hearing that conduction runs the risk of combustion but if the source of heat wont go above a certain temperature (which doesn't burn the herb) then why is there a risk of burning?

 

[CAAB]

Regarding the mods, some do offer a feature called temperature control if you use the correct metal in your coils. I don't use SMOK myself, so don't know about yours.

Regarding combustion, I don't know how dry herb vaporizers work, but with a vape mod, in wattage mode, you can light dry cotton on fire if you depress the fire button long enough.

 

[Piruz]

I guess dry herbs are more easily combusted than coil cotton, right?

 

[CAAB]

I guess dry herbs are more easily combusted than coil cotton, right?

Depends on the herb I suppose and its moisture content or whether or not you decide to moisturize it with VG.

 

[Izan]

I guess dry herbs are more easily combusted than coil cotton, right?

IMO, convection/conduction vapes perform best using material keep at between 55% and 62% relative humidity.
In general, the cotton we use is saturated with liquid, most dry herbs are just that...dry.

HTH
I