Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[kinabaloo]

I'd use dripping method to try it as is (a few drops onto atomiser bridge), just you know what you have. Then maybe dilute with some peoportions of nic liquid or plain VG as you see fit. But try a few drops neat first.

How is the string-spin working out ?

 

[kinabaloo]

Have been doing my own trial. After squeezing out the tobacco, using a garlic press with a small piece of plastic cloth in the bottom, I'm seeing two layers.

The bottom water layer is very dark, but a dull dark brown, a bit like black coffee. The top oil layer (larger) seems to have all the bright yellow color. It's been settling out for an hour, not changing much recently so might go ahead with the acid step soon, after drawing the oil off the top.

The liitle briquettes are a bit like cork.

Was hard to see any change in the bicarbonate during or after the heating. Well, impossible actually.

I did notice the ammonia smell - clear if sniff it close.

Partly I am seeing how fast the process could be. I only soaked the tobacco for an hour, though I pestled it for a good 20 minutes while it was a damp mulch with the carbonate solution and oil. By that time I felt it was pretty much done.

~~~

each layer is clearing at the top of the layer; the water layer more so.

 

[slopes]

What tobacco did you use? I used Golden Virginia which is quite dark to start with. After filtering, my oil is brown and slightly cloudy (ie not crystal clear).

On the acid step - do you know how much Vit C powder I should dissolve in the water? I keep adding more and it never seems to get saturated... it all keeps dissolving.

Note 1: Yes it should be very quick - once the routine is familiar.

Note 2: Did you add much water at the beginning? I only added enough to make the powdered tobacco feel slightly dampened... maybe I didn't have enough water in the mix for it to pass through the garlic press.

 

[hgielm1]

I've been reading these posts since I started using ecigs 1 1/2 years ago. I noticed the "something missing", but stayed determined to not smoke. I haven't smoked, but I'm wondering if you think there will actually be a change coming in the e-liquids? You all are the pros - I actually understand very little about the issues you are discussing. Just wondering if you think there will actually be a change in e-liquid before too, too long? Thanks.

 

[kinabaloo]

Keep adding until no more will dissolve. The water is hot right ? YOu don't need much water remember.

 

[kinabaloo]

I've been reading these posts since I started using ecigs 1 1/2 years ago. I noticed the "something missing", but stayed determined to not smoke. I haven't smoked, but I'm wondering if you think there will actually be a change coming in the e-liquids? You all are the pros - I actually understand very little about the issues you are discussing. Just wondering if you think there will actually be a change in e-liquid before too, too long? Thanks.

Not that we know of. Unless some company is keeping quiet till they're ready to launch. At the moment, i'd guess its 50/50 if we'll see anything in the this year.

 

[slopes]

No the water is cold - but the powder is easily dissolving in it.

 

[kinabaloo]

Here's a pic of the tobacco being pestled after the carbonate solution and oil was present ...

A little wetter than tceight and slopes I think, because i was'nt going to use diffusion, just squeeze out and because i would be pestling it much of the hour, the oil and water would stay well mixed. Next to no liquid run-off, however; it all stayed on the tobacco.

It doesn't show at all in the pic but the liquid quickly becaomes bright yellow (a bit fluorescent-like) and is clear on the bowl.

 

[kinabaloo]

Here is a pic of the liquid squeezed out from the tobacco. Oil layer at top. Both layers are slowly settling (clearing at top).

 

[kinabaloo]

Mot sure exactly what the tobacco is but it says 'naturally sun-ripened. This was essentiall a test run. I only used 5g tobacco !

I will aim for about 1ml end liquid and add 4ml of VG. Hence it will be lowish strength-wise (on the nicotine scale) but might still be quite powerful in effect.

 

[tceight]

wow, you guys have been busy!
Kin, you must have added quite a bit of water to get that much back out?

regarding the citric... use tepid room temp water. if you use hot water, it will just supersaturate.

regarding cutting it with something else, everyone will be different.
the 25-30ml you end up with is 'it'. not a concentrate.

I find the neural effects to be stronger than expected, and the 'nic hit' less so in comparison.
You may find it too strong on the one front, and too weak on the other. If so, you are in the perfect situation to cut it with straight nic juice to find your optimal balance.

if it's not strong enough, then use less water/vg in the extraction. Using 5ml will not get out twice as much alkaloid as using 2.5ml.
there are quickly diminishing returns on increasing volumes.

 

[kinabaloo]

wow, you guys have been busy!
Kin, you must have added quite a bit of water to get that much back out?

I didn't measure it

Seems was about equal amounts of carbonate solution and oil. Shouldn't have harmed the process ?

 

[hgielm1]

Oh, I'll bet you guys will figure it out !! BTW, I smoked for 50 years before I found e-cigs. Nothing else I tried to use to quit worked. As I said, I quit a year and a half ago, and I feel MUCH better. Thanks.

 

[kinabaloo]

Oh, I'll bet you guys will figure it out !! BTW, I smoked for 50 years before I found e-cigs. Nothing else I tried to use to quit worked. As I said, I quit a year and a half ago, and I feel MUCH better. Thanks.

Good to hear !

And thanks for your encouragement

 

[slopes]

I went ahead and added the acidic water and gave the bottle a good shake. This resulted in a lighter, opaque gravy-like liquid... which is now separating slowly. I have a layer of clearish dark water at the bottom and the central part seems to be separating into a small layer of lightish sediment just above the water. There is then a large still-gravy layer and some very nice clear-looking light oil forming at the top.

I think I had a problem getting a clear enough oil mixture. The sediment looks very fine (it must be to have passed through the coffee filter). I suppose this is partly down to my lack of patience

 

[slopes]

Oh, I'll bet you guys will figure it out !! BTW, I smoked for 50 years before I found e-cigs. Nothing else I tried to use to quit worked. As I said, I quit a year and a half ago, and I feel MUCH better. Thanks.

Yes, stick with it hgielm1. I was smoking for half that time, but it was getting on top of me.

 

[kinabaloo]

I went ahead and added the acidic water and gave the bottle a good shake. This resulted in a lighter, opaque gravy-like liquid... which is now separating slowly. I have a layer of clearish dark water at the bottom and the central part seems to be separating into a small layer of lightish sediment just above the water. There is then a large still-gravy layer and some very nice clear-looking light oil forming at the top.

I think I had a problem getting a clear enough oil mixture. The sediment looks very fine (it must be to have passed through the coffee filter). I suppose this is partly down to my lack of patience

At the same stage.

Here's a pic of the acidic water layer (with the alkaloids) separating from the oil :

3 distinct layers - thinnest is the top oil layer which is pretty clear now. Middle seems to an emulsion and the bottom water layer (the one we will keep) is dark. I've not added VG yet.

There is now a fourth very bottom layer of white sediment. I needed to add a lot of acid (kept fizzing) that's why no VG in there yet. Hopefully that sediment is not the alkaloid salts

 

[slopes]

Wow, that looks good kinabaloo. That must be the water at the bottom - is there any sediment in it?

It looks like my oil part will take at least a day to settle. The water has separated to the bottom (it's darker and fairly clear, like yours).

I'm wondering what the benefits of waiting for the rest of my oil/sediment to separate is? If I syringe off the clear water, could I not just add the VG to the oil mix (at 50/50), give it a good shake, and trust the VG to filter through and separate off cleanly like the water did?

EDIT : When I hold the bottle up to the light it has a beautiful 20% layer of red near-transparent water at its base. A 5% layer of sediment solids above the waterline and the rest is a milky translucent oil (emulsion?). There are a few lumps of debris sat on the bottom of the bottle.

 

[DaveP]

Wow, large thread! If my questions have been asked and answered, please feel free to conk me on the head. How is this way of extraction different from the commercial nicotine producers? This must the the first step before further separation occurs to refine the brew into its components.

Anyone think that an analysis would reveal the bad stuff, like carcinogens and other chemicals? Or, us it that the low temps and the lack of combustion makes it more safe? Anyone want to comment on the safety of this method or point me somewhere this has been explored? It looks interesting and could certainly be a way to get all of us off those few analogs we crave.

 

[kinabaloo]

Wow, large thread! If my questions have been asked and answered, please feel free to conk me on the head. How is this way of extraction different from the commercial nicotine producers? This must the the first step before further separation occurs to refine the brew into it's components.

Anyone think that an analysis would reveal the bad stuff, like carcinogens and other chemicals? Or, us it that the low temps and the lack of combustion makes it more safe? Anyone want to comment on the safety of this method or point me somewhere this has been explored? It looks interesting and could certainly be a way to get all of us off those few analogs we crave.

I think you're on the right lines