Between a rock and a hard place

[sofarsogood]

Norton Shores police chief proposes ordinance banning sale of tobacco products to minors | MLive.com

This article is interesting because local government is discussing how to discourage kids from possessing ecigs when nothing is done to discourage possession of tobacco. The police don't want to enforce the Michigan laws against possession of tobacco so they hesitate to propose or enforce a law against possession of ecigs.

This issue has been lurking since the kids issue has come up. How do you enforce a law against kids possessing ecigs when nobody wants to enforce existing laws relating to tobacco?

 

[pianoguy]

Exactly - it's all lip service. If they were serious about it, there would be much more substantial consequences for selling to minors, or for a minor in possession.

 

[Uma]

Ahhh, TC's chant about it being too difficult to tell a cig from a vape, has finally sunk in with corrupt officials seeking new ways to criminalize and fine people.
It's too bad people think that it's okay for others to govern their personal space, body, health, air, water, food, property, ... oh wait, my lungs, my property. My business, my property. My air, my property. I like mine foggy, or smoked, either way. I do not prefer to breathe other people's VOC's. I prefer businesses with HVAQ, instead of no-free-choice signs.

 

[bobwho77]

Michigan refused to pass legislation that would have made under 18 sales illegal, because the bill proposed would have prevented stricter regulations of adult vaping later on. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

 

[sofarsogood]

If law enforcement won't enforce tobacco possession laws against minors anything they do to discourage possession of ecigs is drug dealers defending their turf. Police corruption is one of the bad things about drug laws. To wit

 

[Bill Godshall]

As one who campaigned to ban (and enforce bans on) the sale of cigarettes and other tobacco products to minors back in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, the federal, state and local laws we advocated importantly did NOT ban the use, possession or purchase of tobacco by minors. Rather, our laws banned and held adults accountable for marketing cigarettes to youth.

In response, all of the major tobacco manufactures, the Food Marketing Institute (representing large grocery chains), the National Association of Convenience Stores and their counterparts at the state level developed model laws that protected store owners and managements from being cited for illegal tobacco sales to minors (they instead scapegoated minimum wage employees for fines and punishment), and that instead criminalized minors for possessing, using and purchasing tobacco products (with fines, mandatory community service, mandatory smoking cessation programs, and several even prevented youth from obtaining driver's license).

They industry's PR and lobbying argument was that "We agree with anti tobacco groups that children shouldn't use tobacco, which is why we need to hold these juvenile delinquents fully accountable for their illegal behavior."

About half of the states ended up enacting these tobacco industry drafted youth access laws that criminalized youth for possession, purchasing and/or using tobacco products (and that fully or partially immunized retail store owners and managers from criminal or civil liability if their store is caught selling tobacco to a minor).

Nothing like the cigarettes industry scapegoating and criminalizing the same youth they were target marketing to addict. I was featured on a CBS NEWS 60 Minutes segment back in 1999 exposing this lobbying strategy of the cigarette industry.

 

[nicnik]

because the bill proposed would have prevented stricter regulations of adult vaping later on.

Would that've been because it didn't declare them tobacco products, or maybe declared they're not?

 

[sofarsogood]

As one who campaigned to ban (and enforce bans on) the sale of cigarettes and other tobacco products to minors back in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, the federal, state and local laws we advocated importantly did NOT ban the use, possession or purchase of tobacco by minors. Rather, our laws banned and held adults accountable for marketing cigarettes to youth.

Thanks for the historical perspective. It's always seemed to me if we really wanted to end the Tobacco Age we could. What kinds of laws would be more useful than what we are using. (My selfish motives are that I don't want any interference with my access to ECs though I might bear some inconvenience if it meant a lot more people quit smoking.)