Beware of the Quit Smoking Purists

[Trbobitch]

If your e-cig nicotine juice were suddenly to become entirely unavailable, would you go back to smoking analogs?

And if you had a really stressful event occur like I did (my husband walking out on me then my dad dying), would you go buy a pack of smokes after 2+ years? You probably would. Whereas, if something happened to me now, I might just vape a couple more mls a day for a while or kick it up to 24mgs. Far better than smoking if you ask me.

 

[crbrown]

And honestly, kudos to everyone that has quit sucking down on cigarettes in general.

If I had to make a choice where my only options were analogs or e-cigs, I would gladly choose the e-cig. I agree entirely that it is harm reduction, and safer than smoking cigarettes.

It is just that on my home boards we strive for more than just not smoking...we strive to beat the addiction as well. And we have a great success rate, especially since around 90% of people quitting smoking fail within 6 months regardless of quit method.

You guys have a great success rate for harm reduction. Quite honestly I think both the QSMB and here are great sources of help to people either looking to beat smoking, or beat their addiction. There is no reason that we can't peacefully co-exist.

Let us both do that which we're good at

Welcome Sammy and congratulations on your quiet, I know how hard that must have been.

We have a wide range of people here, some have stopped smoking without intending to, others only want a "cleaner" way to smoke, and some (like myself) would like to give it up completely.

I started smoking at 14 and at 39 was a 3pad smoker. I've tried every quiet method out there and had no success. I think the pv works for me because I can focus on one addiction at a time.
For me the hand to mouth is the hardest to over come not the nicotine, so I really needed something that worked in the opposite way of other NRT. lol I guess I needed the "patch" for the hand to mouth part and not the nicotine.
Again welcome! I hope you stick around, it sounds like you have a lot to offer.

 

[Levitas]

Hi Sammy

Welcome to the forums!!!

 

[Samalie0]

And if you had a really stressful event occur like I did (my husband walking out on me then my dad dying), would you go buy a pack of smokes after 2+ years? You probably would. Whereas, if something happened to me now, I might just vape a couple more mls a day for a while or kick it up to 24mgs. Far better than smoking if you ask me.

I say this as honestly as I believe, given where I am today in having quit tobacco:

I would not go back to smoking for any reason.

The biggest lesson I learnt over the course of my quit, is that cigarettes never made the good days in my life better, nor the bad days in my life easier. Regardless of whatever I have to face in life, smoking/ingesting nicotine will not help me get through it. Chemically, it might make me think I feel better in a given moment, but regardless of that I would still have to face the trauma. No cigarette or nicotine can make the trauma go away...in your example, smoking wouldn't bring my signifigant other home or my dad back from death...in reality, it would only add another problem to my life.

I don't profess that from some sort of high horse, thinking that I'm better than you. I'm not - I'm just another nicotine junkie. We're all addicts here, some of us no longer using nicotine, some of us still using in a safer way, and probably some on both our boards still smoking away.

Sammy

 

[Ande]

THanks for coming, Sammy.

I haven't smoked for several months. I'm vaping 0 nic today, just to see how it goes. It's been about 30 hours, and I'm vaping a LOT of 0nicotine liquid, it's true, but I feel pretty good.

Not sure yet what I'll do tomorrow.

I just wanted to chime in and thank you for your reasonable tone here. I think this is what was missing on the other board. (I didn't register and participate, as I'm not into flame wars, but I've read a few threads there...)

I agree that harm reduction is what this board is about.

I agree that beating the nicotine addiction is what the other board is about.

Both are great things to be about.

I guess I'm confused, though, as to why the other board is called what it's called. Cause it's really about stopping smoking, and MORE.

You asked if we'd start smoking again if our juice supplies became available. The simple answer is, some of us would, and some wouldn't. And until/unless it happens, we don't get to know which group we're in. Life is like that.

And, for whatever reason, a significant number of ex smokers on the other board will also start smoking again. It's the nature of the beast. I know you are sure you are not one who will- but statistically, smokers who successfully quit, even long term, often relapes.

So I guess that I'm happy enough to be looking at this in two ways- getting the addiction under control (which may, or may not, turn out to mean a total end to nicotine) and establishing other ways deal with nicotine.

My nicotine levels must be pretty low right now.

But for whatever reason, if I choose to raise them again, I have options besides lighting a cigarette.

Statistically, MOST of the new quitters who come to the other board will choose to consume nicotine again, as well you know.

I worry that some of the attitudes on that board will lead people to think that, if they make that choice, that all options are just as bad as cigarettes.

Cause it just ain't so, and it's a dangerous thing to imply.

By calling all options as bad as the ciggies, some board members may lead those who lapse (and most do) to choose cigarettes, instead of something less deadly.

I'd feel awfully guilty about that, myself.


Best,
Ande

 

[ricks]

Nicotine is not bad. Nicotine is not bad. Nicotine is not bad. Nicotine is not bad.

 

[Trbobitch]

I say this as honestly as I believe, given where I am today in having quit tobacco:

I would not go back to smoking for any reason.

The biggest lesson I learnt over the course of my quit, is that cigarettes never made the good days in my life better, nor the bad days in my life easier. Regardless of whatever I have to face in life, smoking/ingesting nicotine will not help me get through it. Chemically, it might make me think I feel better in a given moment, but regardless of that I would still have to face the trauma. No cigarette or nicotine can make the trauma go away...in your example, smoking wouldn't bring my signifigant other home or my dad back from death...in reality, it would only add another problem to my life.

I don't profess that from some sort of high horse, thinking that I'm better than you. I'm not - I'm just another nicotine junkie. We're all addicts here, some of us no longer using nicotine, some of us still using in a safer way, and probably some on both our boards still smoking away.

Sammy

I'm glad you have that confidence and I don't want to diminish that in any way, but I said the same thing when I quit and I know at least 20 other ex-smokers who said the same thing. Difference between me and them is that they are now smoking cigarettes again and I am not. For those who do it and stay quit, that's wonderful for them. For me, I've found something the pretty much gives me the best of both worlds.

As far as all of us being "addicts" and "junkies", I couldn't disagree more. Someone else made the point that we are no more "junkies" than those who can't function without coffee, people who bite their nails, people who eat too much or people who take sleeping pills. EVERYONE has a vice, a form of self-medication (even meditating is "self-medicating") and until people stop attaching this stigma to people doing what works for them to function at peak, we're always all going to be trying to quit something.

According to real science, nicotine itself is no more harmful than caffeine (and both of these have actually been proven to have health benefits in moderate amounts). It's a stimulant, that's all. I'll consider myself an addict and a junkie when people who drink coffee every day say the same about themselves. Since the beginning of time, human beings have used one sort of "drug" or another to enhance themselves... this is no different. I take 5000 IUs of vitamin D every day, does that make me a junkie? Granted, it's something my body *needs*, but plenty of people get by just fine without it.

 

[hollyberry]

Sammy,

I just noticed that you've been a member here since 2009.

We appreciate you coming here and being a mature, reasonable person to deal with, unlike some of your counterparts on the other forum.

 

[Pipeous]

I would have to say now, that no, if my e juice were to suddenly become available, now I would not go back to analogs. I find the smell disgusting. and I too tried everything to quit before... this juicy peach is tasty. I have 6 different flavours setup on cartos and attys and grab different ones all the time. I can't vape one flavour.

glad to see cooler heads prevail finally and adults have come to the forefront. you guys know that nicotine is being tested and has proven beneficial to concentration levels in dementia and alzymer patients right? BBC NEWS | Health | Nicotine drug 'may slow dementia' again it is not a perfect solution, but they are looking at extracting the good part of the nicotine out. so it's not all evil. it's one of the component chemicals of the 4000 in cigarettes, and not even the most addicting part

 

[Cil]

I stopped smoking from Jan 1st 1989 and didn't have another cigarette until about mid Feb 1993, this is the longest I've stopped smoking from 1980 to date. Within this period I have stopped for many 3 months, a few 6 months and 2 separate 1 year stints. Intermingled with that I had about 2 Years only smoking cigars in the evening.

I can honestly say, for me, and using my past experience as a pointer, I always seem to have an urge to smoke.

My sistering-law stopped for 23 Years and has now started again, which for me is a bit depressing.

I'm now into harm reduction and I believe my e-cig gives me this choice, I haven't smoked a cigarette since the 1st Jan 2010 and have no intention of doing so.

If they took away my juice I would reluctantly try the 'official' NRT, but I expect I'm no more likely to start smoking again than if I quit using other methods, judging by my past history.

 

[Samalie0]

Ande,

Think about it this way...if you can wrap your mind around this concept, it might help you to understand us better...

We see vaping (and specifically, vaping with nicotine) as bad as smoking because we see nicotine use as a path back to cigarettes.

I believe that, regardless of additives to make it worse, nicotine in and of itself is highly addictive in most people. If the addiction remains, any event whereby nicotine is not available via the user's preferred delivery system is capable of leading the user back to cigarettes, which I think we ALL agree is a Bad Thing™.

As I've said before, here and there, e-cigs are obviously better than cigarettes. This forum is admirable in the sense that it is significant harm reduction.

But we do try exceptionally hard to lead people to be free of the addiction as a whole...try to give people the tools and knowledge to have no further reliance on nicotine at all, so that a failure in their delivery method doesn't lead them back to cigarettes.

Both of us are "right" and doing a good thing. Our methods obviously differ, and that's OK - thats why there are the QSMB forums and the e-cigarette forums...we both serve our own specialized purpose to society.

Sammy

 

[davelog]

If your e-cig nicotine juice were suddenly to become entirely unavailable, would you go back to smoking analogs?

That's an excellent question, and one that's difficult to answer because I didn't really intend to quit smoking in the first place, it just sort of happened because the e-cig I picked up worked so well for me.

After much thought, though, I have decided that I couldn't go back to analogs even if it was the only option for nicotine available. I don't mind the addiction (I've been addicted to far worse), but also I'm digging being able to breathe and taste and smell again too much go back. I suppose I'd continue to vape for recreation, and be pissy about it until I was totally over the addiction.

Then I'd have to worry about what new addiction would replace it.

 

[ricks]

"I'm now into harm reduction and I believe my e-cig gives me this choice, I have smoked a cigarette since the 1st Jan 2010 and have no intention of doing so."

Again, Nicotine is not bad. Stop with the "Harm Reduction" Vaping e-cigs is not a harm reduction, Its clean healthy Vaping.

 

[Cil]

Again, Nicotine is not bad. Stop with the "Harm Reduction" Vaping e-cigs is not a harm reduction, Its clean healthy Vaping.

I'm not really speaking about nicotine, more that we can't be sure vapour is safe, so in my book, it's harm reduction.

 

[Samalie0]

Sammy,

I just noticed that you've been a member here since 2009.

We appreciate you coming here and being a mature, reasonable person to deal with, unlike some of your counterparts on the other forum.

Yeah, I think I joined here as well the last time that there was a pseudo forum war between us, having a similar rational conversation here then as I'm doing today

My counterparts over there aren't bad or evil people, but I agree that we are (including myself) an opinioniated (i know I spelt that wrong) bunch. Our success as individual members of the group are all based upon a singular goal: The complete elimination of nicotine ingestion in our lives. We see it as the only path to ever be entirely free from tobacco. Right or wrong, whether or not the members of this forum agree with our assertations, that is our sincere belief and mantra.

It is a hard path, and we absolutely have members that fail (just as I'm sure there are people here that have gone back to analogs), but our unity in that goal gives us strength. We might be .......s in that regard, but it has brought thousands of people to complete freedom from dependance on nicotine.

It isn't that we hate or envy those of you that found a way to "safely" (and I use that word rather loosely...as some on this very thread have pointed out, there are NO long-term studies on the effect of vaping on the human body...while it is safer than cigarettes, there is no proof yet that vaping is "safe") continue to use nicotine, or that it is easier to vape as a way to not smoking analogs. The "hate" (and I use that term loosely too) comes from the perception that a flood of nicotine addicts are coming to our forums and flooding it on how its OK to still be a nicotine addict, just don't smoke analogs. That just isn't our mission there...we're not looking to help people change their delivery system...we're looking to free people from nicotine.

Sammy

Edited to add: I understand that Nicotine alone is safer, and like many things has some benefits...but there is absolutely no evidence to succest that it is harmless. At minimum, it is a vascular constrictor, which can lead to many heart and cardiovascular issues. Obviously not through one use, but over a lifetime of smoking/vaping there are and will be health consequences, same as alcohol, caffiene, and pretty much every legal and non-legal drug out there.

 

[mgordon1100]

On this subject, I have this to say. I will never go back to smoking cigarettes again. Ever. I really don't care if anyone thinks that I'm going to, I know I wont. As stated by Dave, After a couple of weeks of not smoking cigarettes (burning tobacco and additives with a flame, and inhaling that awful carcinogenic smoke into my body - Read: SMOKE), I felt so much better. Let me say this again. I FELT so much BETTER. I dare anyone to tell me with a straight face that feeling better, eliminating hacking, and eliminating wheezing is not a good thing. Go ahead. Say it. I dare you.

Anyhow, that much said, there's no denying that the nicotine level in vaping is not as much as smoking. Right away, you're reducing the intake of nicotine. Right away, you're on the road to quitting nicotine all together. Sure, it doesn't work for everyone. Guess what. There are ways that people drive their cars that don't work for me. Nothing in this world is exactly the same for everyone, because we are individuals. I've said it before, I never wanted to quit smoking, I just couldn't afford a pack a day habit any more. That's why I took up vaping. Now that I'm doing it, I see the benefits to me. Huge benefits. Sure, there are downsides to vaping as opposed to doing nothing at all, but I'm pretty sure there's not a single downside in comparison to smoking tobacco.

So, in conclusion, you can go around saying that people are going to go back to cigarettes all you want. Guess what again. People who quit smoking cold turkey have gone back to smoking cigarettes. People who used the patch are going back to cigarettes. People who used Zyban are going back to cigarettes. I'll take my vaporizer and enjoy a smoke free existence. If I can't have it anymore, I thank God that it was there to get me off of cigarettes in the first place, because I'm in a better place now. So are the people around me because of it.

 

[renstyle]

Just curious-have you ever considered why other quit methods have failed for you is because- I'm a loser & i can't quit attitude or hey i tried & just couldn't quite cut it???? For me until I changed my attitude no matter what method I tried IT failed-not me but the crutch i used-must be wanting to be free gave me that SPECIAL EDGE in order to be free for more then 8 months-duh you think???

Seems to me Richard is one of those "losers" like myself. We didn't want to degrade our health breathing in the particulates, but the rest of the equation was workable. I've got hand-to-mouth "issues", and I won't die because of them. I also could have an addiction to nicotine right now. The particulates are gone. That's important to ALOT of people who LIKE to smoke but won't stop because the other methods of quit generally involve doing something that, in action, is nothing like smoking.

There are MILLIONS of smokers out there still, and I'm sure many of them don't wanna stop, but they would dink with vaping (possibly), and if even 25% of those that tried vaping never went back to analogs, regardless of their nicotine intake moving forward, it would be huge win against smoking.

I'll take that 25%, since the GROUP I am considering won't quit with other methods. It is the group I came from.

It doesn't ALWAYS have to be about particulate AND nicotine cessation for it to be a positive. I'm addicted to caffiene too, but my doctor hasn't (yet) told me to quit.

 

[DerekUrban]

Holy crap!

That's a lot of stupid.

 

[Trbobitch]

That being said, ever seen someone go through caffeine withdraw? I have, it's 100 times worse than nicotine withdraw.

 

[Cil]

Edited to add: I understand that Nicotine alone is safer, and like many things has some benefits...but there is absolutely no evidence to succest that it is harmless. At minimum, it is a vascular constrictor, which can lead to many heart and cardiovascular issues. Obviously not through one use, but over a lifetime of smoking/vaping there are and will be health consequences, same as alcohol, caffiene, and pretty much every legal and non-legal drug out there.

This may sound flippant and it's not meant to.

Life is dangerous, in fact, the oxygen we need to keep us alive is gradually killing us. I would suggest work stress, money stress and other stresses I can't think of at the moment will also heighten, blood pressure, cholesterol levels and numerous other things.
I think I'll take a happy life with a few dangers rather than worrying that everything I do might kill me.