Bible Question!

[LisaLisa]

Luke chapter 17: 35-37 says:

Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.

"Where, Lord?" they asked.

He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."



Can someone explain this to me? I don't get the answer that Jesus gave.

 

[angelique510]

That is a weird passage. A quick web search showed me that many other people have asked this same question. I found a couple of links that might be helpful.

#76. One Is Taken, the Other Left (Luke 17:26-37) -- JesusWalk

http://ezinearticles.com/?Whatever-...y,-There-the-Vultures-Will-Gather!&id=2360623

Those were the experts. This is how I would explain it:

You have to read the whole passage, meaning from verse 20 all the way to verse 37. In verse 20, Jesus is asked a question by the Pharisees, He answers them and then turns to His disciples and says verses 20 - 36. Then verse 37 is another question "Where Lord?" they asked." Is "they" the disciples, or is "they" the pharisees asking another question, even though Jesus has turned His attention away from them? This, I think, is important to know, to be able to understand the vultures comment.

Picture the scene being played out this way. Imagine a teacher teaching her class. The class clown, trying to get attention, asks an annoying question, probably the same question he has asked a dozen times already. The teacher answers him quickly, with a sigh and hoping he will shut up so she can get on with instructing the class. She turns back to the class, who is quietly paying attention to the lesson. Part of the lesson is (not in so many words, but) "Pay attention and learn what I am teaching, so you won't be like the class clown here, always asking and never understanding." The class clown, totally missing the point of the lesson, pipes up again with a variation on the same question. The teacher then says to the class "See what I mean? He doesn't listen and so keeps asking questions that have already been answered."

Now Jesus would never get frustrated like the hypothetical teacher, nor would He ridicule the class clown in such a way. I am just using it as an illustration so that we have a picture of how a human teacher might have played out the scene. That is something we can easily imagine. Now replace that teacher with a perfect God in the same situation, and I think we can better understand what was said and how it was meant in the book of Luke.

So I think that the "they" asking "Where, Lord?" are the pharisees. Pharisees are very legalistic and want concrete answers. They are also very fond of being in charge. If they knew exactly where and when, that would put them in a position of power and profit. Today, we use the term "vulture" to describe someone who profits from the tragedy or suffering of others. Jesus had just been saying that things will get very bad right before He comes again. If the pharisees knew where and when, they could capitalize on the fear and uncertainty people have when going through bad times. The pharisees would say "I know the answer. I will save you. Follow me." He warned us of these modern day pharisees in verse 23 - People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. Only God knows the answer. Only God can save you. God is the only one you are to follow.

<inserting my usual disclaimer - "I am not a Biblical scholar. I may be wrong. This is only my personal opinion. Take it or leave it. But I hope it is helpful.">

Be well,
~A

 

[Saintscruiser]

Luke 17:35-37 (King James Version)

35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


I am no Bible scholar either. However, these verses are talking about the rapture, and the Coming of the Kingdom.

In these Scriptures, Jesus starts out talking to the Pharisees, but then turns to the disciples to talk. Nowhere in these verses does it mention that Jesus turned back around to talk with the Pharisees. Plus, the Pharisees never called Jesus 'Lord.' I mean, God forbid that they would acknowledge who Jesus was out in public. They had to stand unified. Now Nicodemus was a Pharisee, however, he sought Jesus under the cover of night. So the Pharisees weren't speaking in verse 37, the disciples were. The rapture is always explained....two women/men in the field and one is taken.....why? Because only one of them was a true Christian.

Now, another interesting tidbit here, Lisa, is your translation called the eagles 'vultures,' who eat dead human flesh. In Revelation 19:17, when the angel calls for all fowls to come and gather together unto the supper of the Great God, the word fowl is used. An eagle was revered as a symbol of authority. So where do these people go? They go to where God is. So there is a great deal of difference between vultures and eagles.

I hope I've helped in some way.....and you don't have to take my word for it. Do your own study.

 

[LisaLisa]

I've read everything, but I'm still just not getting it.

Are the disciples asking "Where" regarding the ones taken or left?

 

[Saintscruiser]

I've read everything, but I'm still just not getting it.

Are the disciples asking "Where" regarding the ones taken or left?

Yes, regarding the ones taken. It's the rapture. It's like them asking, "Where did the taken ones go?" Jesus spoke plainly, but crypted. He knew the Pharisees were listening, so He purposely didn't speak 100% plainly. They weren't going to get it anyway. My true gut feeling is that the Pharisees knew exactly who Jesus was and considered Him dangerous to their superiority over the children of Israel. They knew they would lose their position in life in Jewish society. That's why they had to get rid of Jesus. God the Father had the final say. When there were reports that Jesus had come back from the dead, the rumor the Pharisees said was that His disciples stole the body in the middle of the night and hid Him. They didn't want to lose their phoney baloney jobs!

When Scripture talks about the rapture, it's always said that there will be two men/women, one will be taken, the other not. Why? Because all people who are saying they are Christians are not. God knows the heart. The age of Grace is about to come to a close. When the rapture happens, the Jewish clocks starts ticking again for the final 70th week....the 7 year period know as the Tribulation.

 

[LisaLisa]

Yes, regarding the ones taken. It's the rapture. It's like them asking, "Where did the taken ones go?" Jesus spoke plainly, but crypted. He knew the Pharisees were listening, so He purposely didn't speak 100% plainly. They weren't going to get it anyway. My true gut feeling is that the Pharisees knew exactly who Jesus was and considered Him dangerous to their superiority over the children of Israel. They knew they would lose their position in life in Jewish society. That's why they had to get rid of Jesus. God the Father had the final say. When there were reports that Jesus had come back from the dead, the rumor the Pharisees said was that His disciples stole the body in the middle of the night and hid Him. They didn't want to lose their phoney baloney jobs!

When Scripture talks about the rapture, it's always said that there will be two men/women, one will be taken, the other not. Why? Because all people who are saying they are Christians are not. God knows the heart. The age of Grace is about to come to a close. When the rapture happens, the Jewish clocks starts ticking again for the final 70th week....the 7 year period know as the Tribulation.

Ok, so if He was referring to the taken ones, his reply to where they are taken to was "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

That just doesn't fit..........

 

[Saintscruiser]

Ok, so if He was referring to the taken ones, his reply to where they are taken to was "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

That just doesn't fit..........

Now, another interesting tidbit here, Lisa, is your translation called the eagles 'vultures,' who eat dead human flesh. In Revelation 19:17, when the angel calls for all fowls to come and gather together unto the supper of the Great God, the word fowl is used. An eagle was revered as a symbol of authority. So where do these people go? They go to where God is. So there is a great deal of difference between vultures and eagles. (From first post I made on this thread.)


What Bible translation are you reading? The New King James and the King James Version doesn't say vultures. They say 'eagle' which is biblically a symbol of authority......not a vulture who is a scavenger, eating dead meat from the ground and off the roads. Eagles swoop down and snag their prey with their talons and eat what they snag. (Yuck) Get a King James translation and look at the verses again. There is a major difference between an eagle and vulture. (They are also called buzzards.) This is where different translations don't get the full jist of the word. I love The Living Bible, but I have found some discrepancies between it and King James. I am trying to read just my New King James only and check back and forth to KJV.

 

[StormFinch]

Sorry, I don't mean to drop in, but I felt compelled to add to this.

The translated word was interchangeable between vulture and eagle. In my understanding however vulture is correct, simply because it was used in context with the empty body, not the soul or spirit.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the disciples were not asking where the people were going, but where this would happen. Jesus' reply alluded to vultures circling a body, something that could be seen for miles in the skies of the Middle East. In other words, it would be quite evident when it happened, for those who have eyes to see it.

 

[Saintscruiser]

Storm, you can drop in anytime you wish as all are welcome that contribute to the body of Jesus!

I used to use every translation of the Bible except King James, who happens to be a cousin of mine. Now Blonde is a direct descendant, which makes us cousins! Anyway, all that aside, both fowls are predators. I suppose we can agree to disagree, and I don't have a problem with that in the least. Since we don't have the original script translated into English, we are at a stand still. It is a very interesting Scripture, to say the least. However, an eagle is never a vulture, and vice versa. It's like saying that a dog is a cat. Now my Malti does have a few characteristics of kitties, but that still doesn't make her a cat. I don't propose to have all of the answers! I don't claim that......trust me! But, imho, I stick by what I posted.

 

[angelique510]

I found Strong's Concordance online. Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

It gives the original word used and a translation. Knowing the exact word is good, but doesn't really explain the verse. Jesus was not talking about birds, but making an analogy.

On the page that I linked to there is an excerpt from Thayer's Lexicon that translates the whole verse's meaning - "Where there are sinners, there judgments of Heaven will not be wanting"

That was a great question, Lisa. I love us working together, digging deep like this, and trying to figure out the exact meaning of things in the Bible.

~A

 

[LisaLisa]

I'm using the NIV translation. But I don't think the translation is important because they all basically say the same thing, but we can use eagles instead.

If we look in Matthew chapter 24:28, the same verse is spoken "Where the corpse is, the eagles will gather" and this time was not answering a question.

verse 27-28 says: "For just like the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so the coming of the Son of Man will be. Wherever the corpse is, there the eagles will gather."

 

[LisaLisa]

Sorry, I don't mean to drop in, but I felt compelled to add to this.

The translated word was interchangeable between vulture and eagle. In my understanding however vulture is correct, simply because it was used in context with the empty body, not the soul or spirit.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the disciples were not asking where the people were going, but where this would happen. Jesus' reply alluded to vultures circling a body, something that could be seen for miles in the skies of the Middle East. In other words, it would be quite evident when it happened, for those who have eyes to see it.

Nice to see you! Always great to have new faces around here.

 

[LisaLisa]

That was a great question, Lisa. I love us working together, digging deep like this, and trying to figure out the exact meaning of things in the Bible.

~A

Yea, but nobody has figured it out yet!!!!!!!!!

 

[angelique510]

Sorry, I don't mean to drop in, but I felt compelled to add to this.

The translated word was interchangeable between vulture and eagle. In my understanding however vulture is correct, simply because it was used in context with the empty body, not the soul or spirit.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the disciples were not asking where the people were going, but where this would happen. Jesus' reply alluded to vultures circling a body, something that could be seen for miles in the skies of the Middle East. In other words, it would be quite evident when it happened, for those who have eyes to see it.

Hi StormFinch,

It's good to see you here. I saw in another thread that you used to live in Hampton Roads. I live in Williamsburg.

~A

 

[Saintscruiser]

Well this is a conumdrum. Hmmmmm!

'He will lift him up on the wings of eagles, he will run and not be weary, he will walk and not faint.'

'He will lift him up on the wings of vultures, he will run and not be weary, he will walk and not faint.'

Well, that passage sure looks odd! If I am wrong, I apologize in advance, ya'll. I just don't know why the word eagle would have multi definition, but we have that in English too. Ya just never know!

 

[StormFinch]

*Waves at everyone* Thanks for the welcome. I can't say I will be a regular contributor, I rarely am in any of the forums, but I do read quite a bit and contribute where I feel drawn to.

I went to Williamsburg a number of times Angelique. In fact, it was my absolute favorite place to shop for Christmas and I miss it. I lived in Hampton at the time.

Saintscruiser, maybe it would help to look at the nature behind what they were writing about. In that particular area there aren't a lot of small game animals. Although eagles in that part of the world do hunt like they do in the U.S., they are also known as carrion eaters and thus were considered unclean. Vultures in that region hunt much the same way; with such a lack of food sources they take every opportunity presented. From what I understand, the word that's used basically lumped vultures and eagles together because they were the two largest, and main, birds of prey. Eagles however are majestic creatures and had at least some redeeming qualities, their nurturing instincts and swift agile flight, whereas the vultures are just... well, nasty. And you're right, multi definitions exist in all languages. I don't for the life of me understand the forms in Greek and Hebrew, and yet they say that English is the hardest language. lol

As for Bibles, I have several translations but now tend to use the NET (New English Translation and also net, as in you can download it for free from the internet, and the net was used to bring all the translators together) Bible study version the most. In fact, I just downloaded it for my Nook recently. New English Translation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (The online Bible is here; Matthew 1 | NET Bible Online but the main website looks to be down currently. It's bible.org) I followed the translation for years and love the copious amounts of notes. It's almost like having a concordance and Bible all in one. After they completed their work, I ordered a printed copy which is the size of a small city's phone book. lol

 

[LisaLisa]

Southern Gent just PM'd me this answer:

The disciples' response to all of this is, “Where, Lord?” (The Pharisees asked, “When?” His
disciples asked, “Where?”)

Jesus said to them, “Where the body is, thither will be the eagles (vultures) also be gathered together.” Jesus' reference to “the body” paints for us a picture of the dead. He refers to eagles (lit. “vultures”) which always seek out the dead. It is apparently a picture of spiritual judgment on the spiritually dead. So, where will all this occur? Wherever bodies and the vultures are= Everywhere.

Where there is spiritual decay judgment will follow relentlessly and assuredly - this refers to what happens through all ages, but especially to the time of the end, when the judgments of God will visit the unregenerated after the faithful have been finally united to their glorified Lord and Redeemer”

I still don't get it tho.............LOL!

 

[StormFinch]

Lol okay Lisa, try this; God knows and he'll take care of it.

 

[LisaLisa]

Lol okay Lisa, try this; God knows and he'll take care of it.

LOL! Well, ok.........but still.....I need to know dang it!!!!!!!.

 

[LisaLisa]

Someone on another forum asked me this question today:

"The Bible says Adam & Eve are the FIRST among the Human Race.
Cain & Abel were the two sons of EVE & ADAM.
Now, After Cain killed Abel, and Cain was condemned by GOD,
"Cain went from the presence of the Lord... to live in the land of the NOD, east of Eden. He bore GOD's mark and was shunned by most Peoples to the end of his days."
Now my Question is FROM WHERE DID THOSE "NOD" PEOPLES come from ?, So HOW does the BIBLE says that ADAM & EVE are the only REAL HUMAN RACE PARENT ?
I see this FLAWs in the very begining of the BIBLE."

Ok, so I started to research this because I've heard this alot before, and I wanted to find out the truth. So, I did a little studying on this question. I'm copying and pasting my reply to this person below because I know alot of Christians get this question thrown at them, and we need to have a logical reply and this one seems to be a stumbling block for many. If anyone here has anything to add to this, let me know, because we are all just learning as we go along, and Lord knows I need all the help I can get!!!!!!! .

That's a good question, and one I had asked in the past too. Here is a detailed article that gives one explanation so that I don't copy and paste it, here is the link. Cain

Here are the verses that I think you're referencing, let's look at them together.

Genesis chapter 4:10-16 says: " But the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground! So now, you are banished from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you try to cultivate the ground it will no longer yield its best for you. You will be a homeless wanderer on the earth.” Then Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to endure! Look! You are driving me off the land today, and I must hide from your presence. I will be a homeless wanderer on the earth; whoever finds me will kill me.” But the Lord said to him, “All right then, if anyone kills Cain, Cain will be avenged seven times as much.” Then the Lord put a special mark on Cain so that no one who found him would strike him down. So Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden."

Now I've looked these scriptures up myself in the original Hebrew that they were written in. The english word "whoever" in verse 14 was translated from the Hebrew word "Ik" which literally means "anything", which does not specifically mean a person like the word "whoever" does.

Now in verse 15 the english says "anyone" and the original Hebrew word is also "Ik" meaning any thing, not "anyone". Also later on in that verse it also says "No one" and that original Hebrew was also "Ik" meaning No Thing.

It's always important to go back to the original Hebrew or Greek texts that the Bible was written in to see exactly the words that were used and what their definitions were as lot of meanings got changed when they translated to the English language. A perfect example of this are these passages.

So, in the original writings does it say anything about people or a person in the land of Nod, it says no thing which could mean wild animals or storms, or anything that can kill a person.

That's my own personal interpretation and study on that question. The link above provides another viewpoint as well.

I hope this helps. If you have another question, feel free to ask.