Big Tabacco is getting involved

[Byten]

"We will be in this category in 2013," said RJ Reynolds spokesman David Howard. "We have very big plans." - Want to Quit Smoking? Big Tobacco Is Ready

Seems with Lorriad (Newport, Old Gold, Kent, Maverick, True) purchasing Blucig and RJ Reynolds(Camel, etc) making bold statements about entering the e-cig market we now have a new ally from an old enemy, Big Tabacco. Thou this eases some of my anexity over the upcoming congressional hearing from FDA regarding E-cigs I still feel a little torn on big tabacco. Such large powerful players entering the market place could over take the current industry pretty rapidly.

Change is in the winds... err.. vapor?

Not sure what to think, what say ye fellower vapors?

 

[Magikhat]

Maybe they can build the ultimate device that solves all problems with clearomizers, cartos, dripping etc
They have the money and people to do it.

 

[cocacola31173]

Im afraid that if Big tobacco gets involved that the FDA will get involved and halt all sales of e juice and hardware. I hope not cause I just discovered this and hadn't smoked in 3 months. I finally got my routine down, but leave it to the goverment to get their...well I would say 2 cents but in the end I fear it will be much more.

 

[Ken62]

My wife and I were just talking about this and why in most parts of the country there are no brick and mortar vape shops. I think there is a lot of concern/fear that the FDA will put a stop or severe limitation on e-cigs/vaping. If big tobacco gets involved and has a lot of money into it, there is a much better chance of the industry will get better traction with the FDA.

I personally think it's a good thing.

 

[Ardo]

The way I understand this, BT getting involved in e-cig market is only good, as they have pretty much the same goals that we do. They will definitely keep working on protecting their bucks. I think it's rather a good thing.

 

[Huffelpuff]

My crystal ball is showing high taxes on ecigs and no high mg nic available for DIY. Just airing my fears - no basis really for them. I'm hoping that it doesn't come to the vapocalypse but am going to order some stockpile supplies this year.

 

[martinc]

They wont get into APVs,they will tip their toes in what makes most $$$,use and discard,which costs less and sells for more globaly...very similar to analogs,at least to start with.

Then maybe rechargeables,you know,high end stuff

But yeah,they are already regulated and I dont see anything positive coming from that

 

[Ardo]

I understand concerns about mods but at least, e-cigs won't get banned. I live in Estonia and the way world looks from here, a lot of countries could take US decision to recognize e-cigarettes as ground to make up their own minds. This could be turning point for a lot of countries (CAN, AUS, S-Am countries).

 

[flintlock62]

How can FDA halt the sale of hardware? They may be able to control ejuices, but it would be impossible to regulate the devices.

Im afraid that if Big Tobacco gets involved that the FDA will get involved and halt all sales of e juice and hardware. I hope not cause I just discovered this and hadn't smoked in 3 months. I finally got my routine down, but leave it to the goverment to get their...well I would say 2 cents but in the end I fear it will be much more.

 

[frosting]

Ever seen the South Park episode on Big Tobacco vs. ASH's smearing of Big Tobacco? For a crude cartoon it really made me view BT in a new light. Yes they're part of the problem selling cigarettes but remember that it's taxes, possible your own state that raises the fee for something people do demand. It's good they are on our side, because they have the power to fight unfair legislation driven by ignorance, however the question is for how long are they on our side? There's the chance they may try to take mom & pop's down. If they do, I'll quit vaping before I buy gear from BT so help me. Good vendors, don't deserve that.

 

[MarleysChains]

While I get the political win for ecigs with big tobacco getting in on the ecig game, what about the actual impacts to the product. With all the additives they add to cigs to make them more addictive, why wouldn't they add things to ecigs to make them more addictive and more dangerous?

 

[DiNet]

While I get the political win for ecigs with big tobacco getting in on the ecig game, what about the actual impacts to the product. With all the additives they add to cigs to make them more addictive, why wouldn't they add things to ecigs to make them more addictive and more dangerous?

Who said they wont? They see raising popularity. They got their number from blucig, probably very good numbers, they buy company to get back some customer base with different product.
FDA can't ban ecigs anyway. The worst outcome can be is that you'll have to add nic to juices by yourself. They won't be able to ban non-nicotine mix of various flavors that are approved by themselves...

 

[zzipy]

This is a two edged sword. One one side if they get involved, it will ensure that you will be able to buy e-cigs for the rest of your life. On the other end, it will be as they want you to. Higher taxes, Higher toxins, No more of your friendly and trusted juice vendors.

 

[Hock A Lugie]

Well it's shame that they are so desperate and loosing money to ecig's that they are making a play at the market now after they have been lobbying against it from the get go! In my opinion they need to stay out of our world after trying to Demonizing us and paying offical's to do their bidding within the FDA,the same goes for Big Farma as they were the one's to bring the heat out on our asses in the first place. There products they put out have made people sick as hell or die from their use so as far as Im concerned they can go to HELL! They are responsable for many death's and now they want in on vaping or fot it to be gone forever. I say we as a community need to lobby against the pusher's of death and adiction and never buy their products and demonize them just to return the favor for all the trouble they have caused us. How many problems have you had with your health,and how many loved one's have you lost to them while they got RICH and enslaved the world to products they sell!!! JUST SAY NO to whatever they try to sell use and in the end they will loose even more $$$ for trying to market to us in the first place. Im even willing to bet that if they are going to make products for us that they will continue to practice SHADY biz and add all kind's of chemicals and carcinogens to make us more dependant to there products! Make a choice who's side are you on?

 

[EddardinWinter]

How can FDA halt the sale of hardware? They may be able to control ejuices, but it would be impossible to regulate the devices.

Not impossible. They could declare e-cigs a "nicotine delivery device" and deem regulation at that point. Do not underestimate the power of the regulatory bureaucracy! As to big tobacco joining, I see it as mostly good. A well financed (with lots of flavor research already done) new entry into the market will help the product. Their size also gives us another ally in keeping it available to everyone.

 

[MarleysChains]

This is a two edged sword. One one side if they get involved, it will ensure that you will be able to buy e-cigs for the rest of your life. On the other end, it will be as they want you to. Higher taxes, Higher toxins, No more of your friendly and trusted juice vendors.

And that was the point of my previous post. What good is it if ecigs are guaranteed to be available to everyone if BT just turns them into another way for them to deliver their current toxins. At that point, they become no better than than cigs.

 

[EddardinWinter]

While I get the political win for ecigs with big tobacco getting in on the ecig game, what about the actual impacts to the product. With all the additives they add to cigs to make them more addictive, why wouldn't they add things to ecigs to make them more addictive and more dangerous?

They could add things to make them more addictive.. They have done things like that in the past, but the market today for juices makes that harder to do. I doubt they would intentionally make them more dangerous, there is no profit in killing your customers. If they are invested in the ecig market, they become an ally. If you hate the BT companies, don't buy their products, you can still benefit from them being in the market since they will not want the FDA to trample their investment, and will fight regulation and taxation for us all.

 

[MarleysChains]

They could add things to make them more addictive.. They have done things like that in the past, but the market today for juices makes that harder to do. I doubt they would intentionally make them more dangerous, there is no profit in killing your customers. If they are invested in the ecig market, they become an ally. If you hate the BT companies, don't buy their products, you can still benefit from them being in the market since they will not want the FDA to trample their investment, and will fight regulation and taxation for us all.

Well, my comment had nothing to do with my feelings on BT companies, I don't hate them at all. They are a business and like any other business they are looking to make a profit and ecigs would be the natural progression for their business. It was more just pointing out the other side of this discussion. The current market for juices makes that harder to do, yes, but they could easily with the help of the FDA make the current market for juices obsolete. With the competition from ecigs, they could choose to take the additives out of their current products, but they don't. Why? the additives make cigs more addictive. So, for those who chose ecigs as a means of trying to become completely free of nicotine, this could be concerning as BT hasn't done anything to prove that they wont go in this direction. Again, I don't hate BT, I just think that there is more to this discussion than just the availability to the product being guaranteed because they are getting involved.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Well, my comment had nothing to do with my feelings on BT companies, I don't hate them at all. They are a business and like any other business they are looking to make a profit and ecigs would be the natural progression for their business. It was more just pointing out the other side of this discussion. The current market makes for juices makes that harder to do, yes, but they could easily with the help of the FDA make the current market for juices obsolete. With the competition from ecigs, they could choose to take the additives out of their current products, but they don't. Why? the additives make cigs more addictive. So, for those who chose ecigs as a means of trying to become completely free of nicotine, this could be concerning as BT hasn't done anything to prove that they wont go in this direction. Again, I don't hate BT, I just think that there is more to this discussion than just the availability to the product being guaranteed because they are getting involved.

I agree with your point that there is no reason to trust BT to do anything other than do what is best for their bottom line. I suppose they could join with the FDA and try to snuff out the small firms making juice, but it would be tricky. How would the FDA argue that putting the vendors who are making a relatively (not completely) safe product out of business improve public health?

I did not mean to imply you hated BT. Hock seems to be very passionate in his distaste for BT, and I will defend to the death his right to say what he feels in his heart. I am not here to protect BT, they suck. I was simply trying to point out that BT could help all of us, hypothetically. It is true, like you point out, they could hurt us too. I view Big Pharma as a much greater foe than BT at this point in time.l

 

[MarleysChains]

I agree with your point that there is no reason to trust BT to do anything other than do what is best for their bottom line. I suppose they could join with the FDA and try to snuff out the small firms making juice, but it would be tricky. How would the FDA argue that putting the vendors who are making a relatively (not completely) safe product out of business improve public health?

I did not mean to imply you hated BT. Hock seems to be very passionate in his distaste for BT, and I will defend to the death his right to say what he feels in his heart. I am not here to protect BT, they suck. I was simply trying to point out that BT could help all of us, hypothetically. It is true, like you point out, they could hurt us too. I view Big Pharma as a much greater foe than BT at this point in time.l

BT and the FDA don't have to say they are shutting down the small firms that make juice, but they could influence regulations to make the business environment very difficult to operate in for the small firms. I do see the positive side of BT getting involved, but I guess I just am a naturally skeptical person. Besides, I do enjoy a good debate. Great discussion!