Big Tobacco’s War on Vaping

[BuGlen]

Gregory Conley of the AVA (American vaping Association) wrote this article and it explains at least some of the opposition we face. The focus of this article is that of Big tobacco, and while some might feel that BT is not the largest player (myself included), I do believe it's a good angle to get the attention of those on the fence about the issue. If there's one thing that will make a certain group of people re-think a position, it's that BT agrees with them.

Link: Big Tobacco’s War on Vaping

An interesting bit in the article that sheds some light on what's going on with the recent veto in Michigan:

Even before this news broke, Reynolds had devised a vapor-product regulatory strategy to protect its cigarettes and cigalike e-cig products from thousands of smaller PV and e-liquid competitors in several states. To raise costs on and limit the number of competitors in the market, they lobbied for all vapor products to be taxed in South Carolina, Michigan, Oklahoma, and other states and for the same regulatory and licensing regimes that apply to cigarettes to be imposed on vapor products.

 

[Kent C]

Gregory Conley of the AVA (American Vaping Association) wrote this article and it explains at least some of the opposition we face. The focus of this article is that of Big Tobacco, and while some might feel that BT is not the largest player (myself included), I do believe it's a good angle to get the attention of those on the fence about the issue. If there's one thing that will make a certain group of people re-think a position, it's that BT agrees with them.

Link: Big Tobacco’s War on Vaping

An interesting bit in the article that sheds some light on what's going on with the recent veto in Michigan:

It's this part that is disturbing:
"To raise costs on and limit the number of competitors in the market, they lobbied for all vapor products to be taxed in South Carolina, Michigan, Oklahoma, and other states and for the same regulatory and licensing regimes that apply to cigarettes to be imposed on vapor products."

There are some people - advocates - who brought about those 'same regulatory and licensing regimes that apply to cigarettes'. (pretty sure Greg wasn't one of those though). While those people seemed perfectly right to enforce those regulations on smokers, some now want to have them not apply to ecigs, even though it was they who helped set up those mechanisms that can now be used against ecigs.

Tobacco companies are likely grinning about this since they can use those 'weapons' that were used against them (of which they fought all along) to now help snuff out the competition - a piece of business 'jujitsu' so to speak - manipulating the opponent's force against himself rather than confronting it with one's own force. Any business in such a situation would employ this tactic. That it is 'Big Tobacco' - yeah - there will be a certain segment of the population that may like this but it won't phase the regulators at all, imo. For them, it's just another 'unintended consequence' to which they now expect and accept, as long as it leaves them ultimately in control.

 

[Jman8]

I just can't get on board with a fellow vaper that touts the following:

These battery-operated and smokeless devices represent a free-market solution to a grave public-health problem. As alternatives to cigarettes, which kill more than 400,000 people each year, vapor products are far less hazardous.

I respect Greg C. immensely, but consider this between naive and misinformed. And like Bill G. or other so called leaders, just assume have the debate / discussion here on open forum rather than dance around this issue. I see it as giving into propaganda of ANTZ to serve an end that I think is deemed justifiable but I find incredibly distasteful.

Studies are unsurprisingly finding that users of these fill-it-yourself vapor products are significantly more likely to quit smoking than those who use cigalike e-cigs. Many ex-smokers credit the ability to switch between a variety of flavors as being a prime reason for their being able to quit.

This is the other part of the narrative that I'll continue to call out. I realize for the overwhelming majority of vapers it is all about cessation and staying quit. But that also just so happens to feed into ANTZ's end goal. The correct narrative, IMHO, is alternative of the recreational kind, and not substitution of the public health/medical kind. We can, or will, win on the recreation argument. We will be forever controlled if sticking to idea that it is all about cessation.

With all that said, I realize the main point of the article (at least I hope it's the main point) is that BT is proposing regulations to heavily control vaping. I think this stinks. But also kinda stinks when BV and AEMSA engage in similar tangent. So, not accurate to pin it on BT as if BT is only one presumably on our side that goes in this direction.

I think BT makes a mistake if it goes in that direction, but also just see it the way I see AEMSA approaching the topic which is an even playing field stands a better chance against zealous regulations than if joe schmo is allowed freedom to manufacture / market whatever his company desires, while other companies that are trying to be good corporate citizens are both paying the piper and attempting to find reasonable standards that work for mass production / distribution.

So no easy solutions, but there are principled choices to be made. And I'd suggest near the top be not giving in so easily to ANTZ propaganda. Let me know when you can back up the meme of "smoking kills" with actual data.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

...glad you mentioned 'recreational.' I have always tracked my expenses for vaping under a catagory of 'recreation' as I did smoking before.

from Jman8 ...But also kinda stinks when BV and AEMSA engage in similar tangent. ...

I see a lot of, 'I DIY... Who cares what AEMSA does with 'manufacturing standards?''

With all the hand-wrenching and punctuated remarks about those who may not share our outlook regarding forming possible regulatory statutes, AEMSA might seem a friendly counterpart. After all, isn't AEMSA part of 'The Community?'

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to realize that AEMSA could benefit significantly from regulation similar to their manufacturing standards being adopted and made the 'law of the land.'

Early on, AEMSA stated that they would 'work to have AEMSA's standards adopted as law.' While that language may have softened to, 'willing to work with governing entities in formulation of regulation,' I am not comforted.

Is it that AEMSA would like to get cosy with regulatory authorities? Should the standards of the AEMSA cartel seem appealing to regulatory agencies, it is not a great leap to think that an 'off the record wink and nod' might lock up sales of nicotine base to limited parties. Such parties might be those qualified by a trade organization or some similar set of qualfications. After all, isn't it an AEMSA purpose to develop control based on perceived threats? And if nicotine is a threat, what bounty might come AEMSA's way if nicotine base availibilty were restricted and DIY thus limited?

While so much attention is placed upon and energy spent towards those obviously opposed to free and open vaping, is AEMSA standing just off stage with the Devil's Deal in hand?

 

[DC2]

Linc Williams of AEMSA... where is that We Are Vapers documentary?

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Linc Williams of AEMSA... where is that We Are Vapers documentary?

Still waiting on my dvd of that movie.

 

[Kent C]

...
It doesn't take a lot of imagination to realize that AEMSA could benefit significantly from regulation similar to their manufacturing standards being adopted and made the 'law of the land.'

There should be 'a wall of separation between AEMSA and State'. I approve that they set their own standards and try to get vendors to sign on and set up standards that they think are appropriate, but to go further, is to make themselves into the same type of community organizers that purport to be "consumer advocates" but end up being nanny statists creating either a monopoly or cartel from the businesses that fund them, and then make their way onto gov't agencies with the power to regulate using force on all that don't comply. This history is irrefutable.

 

[DC2]

Still waiting on my dvd of that movie.

I'm waiting on two of them, one of which was going to be raffled off for CASAA donations.

 

[Uma]

I find the parroting distasteful too. I've done my fair share of it, not knowing any better, but it always nagged at me. Not being able to put a finger on it, I went along with the crowd. No more. Vaping wars has opened my eyes to the hidden truths still unfolding.
The Redhead full of Steam speaks in volumes if anyone dares care to listen. http://jredheadgirl.blogspot.com/2015/01/thoughts-on-new-orleans-smoking-ban.html
The problem is, most people don't KNOW our rights, don't know they're being trampled, dismissed. It's not a smoking/vaping thang, it's a Bill of Rights thang! I'm ashamed at myself for not knowing earlier. What is under attack is our Constitution. Period.
I beg of you, everyone who is numb, to take a crash course and learn the Constitution. It's not just a word, it's our Life, our Liberty, our nation.
The Constitution was created by us, by WE the People, not by they the government.
The Government was created by us, by WE the People, to take care of four lousy jobs and those jobs ONLY. If you don't know what those 4 jobs are, YOU are what's wrong with our nation.
This isn't a war about smoking or vaping. It's a war about our constitution. Period.
Advertising, freedom of speech.
Bans, freedom of property rights.
Health, freedom of choice.
On and on.
I'm going to plug KrisAnne Hall here, she's a fireball. Cato is right on (thanks Kent!). Judge Napalitano is awesome. Constitution camp is awesome. There are so many places to learn, & I'm behind the ball, trying to catch up, so please please, add to this.
We need to stop thinking in terms of inside outside, vapor or smoke, and start looking at the roots.

 

[Kent C]

There are so many places to learn, & I'm behind the ball, trying to catch up, so please please, add to this.
We need to stop thinking in terms of inside outside, vapor or smoke, and start looking at the roots.

Cato Home Study Course | Cato Institute

George H. Smith | Libertarianism.org

Hit 'explore further'.

 

[Uma]

Cato Home Study Course | Cato Institute

George H. Smith | Libertarianism.org

Hit 'explore further'.

Excellent, thanks!
The Constitution is the Solution video is great too, important info. http://youtu.be/9_ipyDtnsjc
This podcast is of dire importance. Vapers, Just replace the "mms" with anything your imagination desires... Flavors, nicotine, pg, VG, .... they are an unlawful org, did you know that? That's why they can do the devils deeds with the devils blessings. SUPER IMPORTANT TO LISTEN TO. When the Government Kidnaps Your Kids - Liberty First