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blood in saliva..

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by lynchite, Oct 26, 2008.

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  1. lynchite

    lynchite Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2008
    North West UK
    OK I've been smoking this device just under 2 weeks, I feel as though my health has improved somewhat but this morning there was a bit of blood in my saliva, only a bit but it was there.
    Do you think this could just part of the process of my lungs healing? I never had it with tobacco. It scares the hell out of me when there's anything like this to be honest. I don't know whether to take it as a warning sign and leave well alone. I'm gutted cause I really enjoy e-smoking and I thought I'd found a way to enjoy a smoke without worrying about my health, but now I'm not so sure...:(
  2. scrubadub

    scrubadub Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2008
    London, UK
    Have you been coughing much recently? Once you stop smoking and your lungs begin to clear the smokers cough can get worse. If it's a bad cough you can rupture blood vessels in your throat which will cause small amounts of blood come up in the phlegm. I had the same thing happen to me last year when I had a chest infection, small streaks of blood. The doctor said it's clots that you really need to worry about.

    That said, you should really get it checked by the doctor. Where are you based? If you're in the UK then give NHS direct a ring. That was the first port of call for me and they were a great help and very reassuring.
  3. lynchite

    lynchite Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2008
    North West UK
    Thanks for the advice. Yes it was just a couple of streaks in phlegm. Not had it since, have kept checking! Will give NHS a ring tomorrow. Think I may get some zyban. It's made a bit cautious about e-cigs until they're properly tested. I'll see what they say though.
  4. SmokingInTexas

    SmokingInTexas Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 25, 2008
    Texas, USA
    I should be the last one to EVER give any advise of a medical nature, BUT....One thing you might look at closely is your gums. I've had an occasion where a popcorn kernel or something like that causes my gums to bleed a little. Outside of any obvious tooth issue, I would seek QUALIFIED medical advise.
  5. PeteMcArthur

    PeteMcArthur Super Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 27, 2008
    I think it is unlikely to be the e-cigs, but get yourself checked by a doctor. It is probably just bleeding gums, but better to be safe than sorry.
  6. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Funny you mention gums. This week my gums would bleed if I looked at them straight! Specifically, they bleed when I floss. Now, I can't pin a problem on e-smoking because I use snus, tobacco bits and smoke pipes and cigars. But the gums are a problem.

    Side note: I went looking for mouthwash specifically targeted to bleeding gums. There, on a bottom shelf at the pharmacy, was one from "Dentist's Hygiene." The only active ingredient? Vegetable glycerine. This is good stuff, people, not some scary chemical!

    I'm pretty sure my own gum bleeding is from use of snus and Oliver Twist, not inhaling vapors. But it's a new problem ...

    Specks in phlegm would point to lungs, however.
  7. gep

    gep Moved On

    It could also be from post nasal drip (yech..I know). But when the air is dry this happens.

    Just a thought.
  8. smoking gnu

    smoking gnu Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 8, 2008
    Hi, blood in phlegm could well be the lungs could also be the sinuses. If you are concerned you should see your doctor .
    Bob I used to have a problem with bleeding gums when I used nicotine gum this is a problem with gum, so I would think it the snus thats to blame.
    I have actually got excellent gums since I have stared e-smoking, and a good workout with a dental hygienist he he he.
    If you have got bleeding gums the sucking on your e-cig could start them to bleed. Also smoking tobacco is a very bad for gums as we all know, but it can mask major gum disease . so all people who have smoked should visit their dentist.:thumb:

    There ends the sermon
  9. bencrest

    bencrest New Member

    It's just my opinion, but I'd pick a normal cig over Zyban any day of the week.

    Have you tried Zyban before, and if so, how did you get on with it, I've heard several stories of people getting serious side effects from it.
  10. KentSP

    KentSP Full Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 5, 2008
    South Africa
    I quit for 8 months after my last Zyban tablet a few years back but ended up smoking again cause of too many parties. I also know of someone else that gave up four years ago with Zyban and never smoked since. On the other hand I know 2 people that tried zyban and found it did nothing for them and one person that got heart palpitations and stopped using it. I have since tried Zyban again twice and failed both times. I think with Zyban you really just got one shot and you have to want to stop smoking when you hit day 7 of 1 pill a day then you must stop totally no one cig a day trying to cut down because you'll waste your time and money. I found while i was on Zyban I'd wake up in the mornings feeling really charged up and postive only side effect I ever got was fantom smells I'd smell things that reminded me of something but as soon as I tried to think what it was the smell would escape me. During the 7 day period before quitting I smoked more than I ever smoked before and day 8 with no cigs was a little difficult and by a week in was simple. However I am convinced Zyban changed something in my brain regarding nicotine because when I did start smoking again I became a chain smoker and felt no matter how much I smoked I couldn't get any satisfaction like the receptors in my brain were somehow blocked. All in all I think I have taken 8 boxes of Zyban if I add my three tries of using it together and I always stuck to the dosage as I believe it can be quite dangerous to your heart. Bottom Line you must want to quit.
  11. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Kent, just to clarify: Your post sounds like Chantix, not Zyban. Chantix (spelled different ways in different countries) is the smoke-a-week-and-quit drug that blocks nicotine receptors. I had a miserable experience with it. Never tried Zyban but thought that was a tranquilizer for anxiety in quitters ...
  12. lynchite

    lynchite Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2008
    North West UK

    No I haven't tried zyban, tried the patches which did work but I started again.. obviously.
    I think the blood was from my nose. I blew my nose later and that seemed to be the culprit. Never normally get it though and I do kind of breath the excess vapour up through my nose so wondering if this has anything to do with it. My worry is, if it can do that to my nose what's it doing to my lungs...
  13. KentSP

    KentSP Full Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 5, 2008
    South Africa
    Tropical Bob the last time I checked Chantix was still not available here in south Africa. Zyban is also sold as a antidep called Wellbutrin. It used to be a very dangerous drug and was once pulled off the market however now that it is in a sustained realease form it is a lot safer. Not sure how it works but I am not a depressed person never taking any other type of antidep.

    I've also once stopped for a year using nicotine spray but to get from cigarettes onto a spray is difficult so I added my own step of fist making sure i could handle a full week on snus without even one cigarette. Then using the 4 cans of spray that go from high to nothing and each last a week was simple.
    Besides being addicted to nicotine I am addicted to the spikes in smoking that you don't get from snus or patches or spray and I think the main reason I can't cut down the nicotine in cigarettes is because of the spikes. I need a constant level of nicotine to be able to slowly cut down. With cigs you can just suck harder and get spikes.
  14. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    I know EXACTLY what you mean! I've written elsewhere that no matter the nic strength of e-liquid, e-smoking, snus, et al, are NOT like smoking a real cigarette. It's the 7-seconds-after-inhaling spike that's missing .. and I don't know why since vapor has nic. But the spike is missing.

    A constant blood level of nicotine is not enough, I've found.
  15. KentSP

    KentSP Full Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 5, 2008
    South Africa
    I think I may have found one reason regarding the spike from smoking.
    Under the heading CNS on the Nicotine article on wikipedia I found some information.

    Basically it says Nicotine increases dopamine and other neuron transmitter levels in the brain and Harmine(which is only produced from burning tobacco) slows the rate down which the brain can break down dopamine, so in effect I'd say Harmine which is present in smoked tobacco amplifies the effects of nicotine.
  16. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Kent, did you see Dr. Laugesen's new report on cartridge contents? Put your suggestion together with that report and we now know WHAT IS MISSING? The cartridge liquid has no harmine. There is no burning of tobacco, of course, to produce harmine but none is added to our liquid either. Harmine is a MAO Inhibitor. It boosts nicotine's impact. Without it, we can suck 36mg liquid non-stop and still not get the feeling of cigarette smoking. "Throat hit" is not what's missing. Harmine is what's missing.

    Now, it would go beyond a home experiment to figure out an amount and add it to our liquid. That would be for chemists to do. But if they can do that, without attracting the wrath of regulators, we might indeed duplicate the pleasure we once had while smoking a tobacco cigarette.

    If you haven't read Dr. Laugesen's report on our liquid, do so. You'll see what's there -- nicotine aplenty -- and what's not, a MAO inhibitor. I think you nailed it! Congratulations.

    Here are a couple of grafs from a med site on harmine:

  17. Grenage

    Grenage Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2008
    Portsmouth, UK
    If it continues, see a doctor. Don't take chances :)
  18. bghouse

    bghouse Guest

    Oct 25, 2008
    California, USA
    Hi TB,

    Harmine is an MAO Inhibitor? That really tingled my brain... Aren't there some kind of drug interactions with MAO inhibitors? For some reason, my brain keeps seeing "do not take if you are using any kind of MAO inhibitor"?

    Am I imagining this? I only ask, because if there is and we add it to e-liquid then don't we end up having to have more FDA regulations and stuff?

    (sorry, not really up on all the legal stuff)
  19. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    No, you're right. There are all kinds of precautions for MAO inhibitors. But if that's what provides the lasting satisfaction of a tobacco cigarette, then it might be possible to replicate smoking closely by adding a measured amount. I would not even begin to think of trying something so hazardous, but I hope the chemists who concoct our liquids at least consider how to make the vapor more satisfying.

    And, yep, if it were added, it might invite an FDA involvement right away.
  20. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    Might the 'hit' effect of harmine have something to do with it being alkaline? Theoretically that would create an environment where nicotine is absorbed faster. If it is to do with alkalinity we (or a chemist) might be able to find a substitute that is non hazardous.
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