BT is in bed with the government and I hate the government. This scares me. vaping has done so much for me and I like it just the way it is. I like knowing vendors on a 1st name basis and I like that all of the vendors watch ECF and keep in contact with there customers threw this forum. How many product makers are on a net forum sitting down to dinner with their customers taking note of everything we want in the next round of products and implementing what we ask for even right down to the color at times? I have only been on FB maybe 5 times since I started vaping because everything going on in the magical world of vaping fascinates me so much that I spend my FB time on ECF now. I know things are gonna change soon and that sucks big time! This is a sad sad day for me
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Dana, this just means that it is up to us, as a community, to make sure that we do our best to influence the direction the e-cig market is going to take. This is a grassroots thing; make sure that we are gaining footholds in local communities with our small businesses in order to build trust; make sure that we are responsible and credible advocates for e-cigs to everyone we meet; make sure that we are always trying to educate others about the facts and truth concerning e-cig use. Because we make up the community into which BT is about enter, we have some ability to dictate the terms according to which the market will run.
BT entering the game is neither good or bad yet; we have to make sure this is a good thing. This can get money behind the ecig required to fight over-reaching regulations from the FDA backed by BP. This can bring a lot of hardware manufacture to the USA where quality control and safety can be verified.
Finally, Big Tobacco is no more in bed with the government that small businesses who take tax credits are. The government is not some monolithic hegemon with one button that only those with money can push. Government is a large and heterogenous group of folk all working toward different goals and aims. There is a part of BT which is in bed with the gov, and there is a part of BT which works against the government. "The Government" can be used to our ends as well; the notion that it is just some big bad agency like the Illuminati is a rhetorical trick pulled by those who would rather not deal with us looking for power in every possible avenue...
BT entering the game is neither good or bad yet; we have to make sure this is a good thing. This can get money behind the ecig required to fight over-reaching regulations from the FDA backed by BP. This can bring a lot of hardware manufacture to the USA where quality control and safety can be verified.
Finally, Big Tobacco is no more in bed with the government that small businesses who take tax credits are. The government is not some monolithic hegemon with one button that only those with money can push. Government is a large and heterogenous group of folk all working toward different goals and aims. There is a part of BT which is in bed with the gov, and there is a part of BT which works against the government. "The Government" can be used to our ends as well; the notion that it is just some big bad agency like the Illuminati is a rhetorical trick pulled by those who would rather not deal with us looking for power in every possible avenue...
If you haven't noticed e-cigs have been one stroke of a pen made at the whim of one person away from being wiped out since they came to the US.
That one pen stroke could wipe out 95% or more of the US juice makers.
In fact it was the power of a big corporation that put the brakes on that pen before.
The entry of a large US corporation that has plenty of experience dealing with the exact people who are against e-cigs helps greatly.
Would it be good idea to buy stock? i found this
Lorillard (NYSE: LO) fell Wednesday after the company reported a larger-than-expected drop in in earnings.
A September 145/150 Out of The Money Bear-Call Credit Spread looks like an attractive way to play LO today. This strategy aims for a return of 11.11% and LO is 12% out of the money. Recent support for this stock has been demonstrated near $132.08 while resistance has been around $138.42.
Lorillard is trading today at $129.43, down $5.39 (-4.09%) from yesterday’s close. The stock began the day trading at $126.26 and has moved between $125.12 and $130.73. Recent technical indicators for the stock are bullish and Standard & Poor’s gives LO a positive 4 STARS (out of 5) buy.
The nation's third-biggest tobacco company also announced it has bought electronic cigarette maker Blu Cigs for $135 million, part of an industrywide push to diversify beyond the traditional cigarette business.
Lorillard earned $223 million, or $1.70 a diluted share in the quarter, compared with $248 million, or $1.71 a share, a year ago.
Revenue excluding excise taxes was essentially flat at $1.06 billion.
Lorillard said the number of cigarettes it sold fell about 3 percent to 9.44 billion cigarettes. Newport, its biggest brand, fell 4 percent, while low-priced Maverick cigarettes rose about 10 percent.
Lorillard said Blu Cigs, based in Charlotte, will remain a separate operating company.
Lorillard (NYSE: LO) fell Wednesday after the company reported a larger-than-expected drop in in earnings.
A September 145/150 Out of The Money Bear-Call Credit Spread looks like an attractive way to play LO today. This strategy aims for a return of 11.11% and LO is 12% out of the money. Recent support for this stock has been demonstrated near $132.08 while resistance has been around $138.42.
Lorillard is trading today at $129.43, down $5.39 (-4.09%) from yesterday’s close. The stock began the day trading at $126.26 and has moved between $125.12 and $130.73. Recent technical indicators for the stock are bullish and Standard & Poor’s gives LO a positive 4 STARS (out of 5) buy.
The nation's third-biggest tobacco company also announced it has bought electronic cigarette maker Blu Cigs for $135 million, part of an industrywide push to diversify beyond the traditional cigarette business.
Lorillard earned $223 million, or $1.70 a diluted share in the quarter, compared with $248 million, or $1.71 a share, a year ago.
Revenue excluding excise taxes was essentially flat at $1.06 billion.
Lorillard said the number of cigarettes it sold fell about 3 percent to 9.44 billion cigarettes. Newport, its biggest brand, fell 4 percent, while low-priced Maverick cigarettes rose about 10 percent.
Lorillard said Blu Cigs, based in Charlotte, will remain a separate operating company.
Do nOt buy blu brand!!!! Carcinogens here we come! @ssholes can't leave something good alone.
While it is kinda scary that BT has jumped on board, if they are smart, this could have positive long term aspects.
Several positive things that the money BT brings to the table makes more possible come to mind
1) They have the power to fight those that want to ban or over regulate E-Cigs.
2) They could pour massive amounts of $$$ into R&D to improve the products. While many of us here like being hobbyists and experimenting with different tanks, cartos and mods the general public just wants to buy something they can stick in their pocket to pull out and vape. I can see where new hassle proof PVs can be an asset.
3) Product availability will be enhanced. I will no longer panic when getting low on supplies and can stop stalking the mailman.
4) Marketing can raise public awareness about the benefits of vaping vs smoking analogs, making it more socially acceptable.
Truer words were never spoken.
This is exactly the goal of big tobacco IMO. They've got the government in their back pocket and eCigs are a threat. It is a perfect opportunity to watch crony-capitalism in action. *sigh*
The only GOOD thing that could come from this is that suddenly the FDA will do a complete 180 and approve eCigs.
Mark my words, they are soon to receive higher praise than the gum or patch.
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eSC, while I agree with your claim that BT will try to use its powers to force out other vendors, I disagree that they have government in their back pocket. There is a turf war between BP and BT over who has the rights to the levers of power in Washington DC, and BT has mostly been losing this war over last 15 years.
I also want to point out that the loss of small business in the ecig industry is not an inevitably byproduct of BT entry into the market. My post above outlines why we as a community have the power to make sure that this doesn't happen.
I also want to point out that the loss of small business in the ecig industry is not an inevitably byproduct of BT entry into the market. My post above outlines why we as a community have the power to make sure that this doesn't happen.
If it was a good business practice to stomp out all competition why does Phillip Morris own a long list of competing beer brands? Why do car dealers start up "auto rows"?
Competition helps drive demand.
More specifically to the tobacco industry where you have groups and government demonizing them there's strength in numbers.
Competition helps drive demand.
More specifically to the tobacco industry where you have groups and government demonizing them there's strength in numbers.
Good point, however, that is merely in proportion to each other. Gov knows where their bread is buttered and, thus far, the billions in butter that BT has and continues to supply ensures not only their continued existence, but also the regulation hurdles that hurt small business. (e.g.: competition).
I read your post and although I agree to a point, I would warn that, although made up of people, governments are entities that have a common self interest. That self interest is survival. The key to their survival is pleasing those with influence and money so that they can buy that one item which ensures their survival: votes.
That money often asks for regulations cleverly designed to crush competition and politicians jump on that. Especially when said regulations can be sold to the voting public as being in their own self interest.
For weak-willed governments/politicians it is a win-win.
I'm not going to say anything negative about anyone. And this post isn't meant to be negative.
YOU are the community. YOU are the consumers. YOUR choices make a break a business or a movement. It's YOUR money. Corporations have slowly crushed and stifled the life out of small businesses over time. But, YOU can stop them. So....stop them.
YOU are the community. YOU are the consumers. YOUR choices make a break a business or a movement. It's YOUR money. Corporations have slowly crushed and stifled the life out of small businesses over time. But, YOU can stop them. So....stop them.
im not sure they would add toxins and posions to juice, seems like it would be in their best interest not to kill their customers. imagine the public outcry if they added bad stuff to them it would be a PR disaster. they could use this as a chance to sell the "safer" cigarette that big tobacco has been "looking" for all of these years. they did try different things to attempt to create a safe cigarette, products like eclipse and premier were attempts at this but those products failed miserably. why did they buy blu of all brands, i have no idea. anyone knows that not too much research could have gone into the decision to buy blu of all brands. blu is probably one of the worst ecig products on the market, they are just as bad as green, njoy and all of those terrible gas station products. mainstream crap for the uneducated user. maybe their hope is by buying one of the worst designs on the market that people will try blu, toss it out and buy newports again.
you know it's very simple, if WE ALL refuse to buy anything from them how long do you think they will last. even if they run huge sales where they almost give the stuff away, don't buy it and how long will they last.
think about that
think about that
how popular was blu before it was bought out by lorillad? blu products suck most people that use them at the start of their vaping adventure quickly throw them out for better products from vendors like provape, totallywicked, madvapes, volcano and others.
The entry of corporations (big tobacco) will be bad for the small businessmen, no doubt about it.
The only silver lining to this cloud regards regulation. The FDA wants to regulate e-cigarettes and the liquid as a tobacco product. Only major corporations have the money to fund R&D (science) needed to establish best practices and standards for e-cigarettes. The government does not have the resources to fund R&D into any new industry. They rely on the industry to provide recommendations for regulations which FDA will or will not adopt after scientific review.
When it comes to regulation for a new industry the industry must regulate itself, essentially and propose those regulations to the government.
Take EMSS rules proposed by ECF as an example. ECF does not have the slightest chance of backing it's EMSS rules by actual science. ECF can't afford the R&D so they rely on a common sense approach to the issue instead. As far as the government is concerned, proposed regulations must be science-based. Common sense approaches don't fly with them.
The only silver lining to this cloud regards regulation. The FDA wants to regulate e-cigarettes and the liquid as a tobacco product. Only major corporations have the money to fund R&D (science) needed to establish best practices and standards for e-cigarettes. The government does not have the resources to fund R&D into any new industry. They rely on the industry to provide recommendations for regulations which FDA will or will not adopt after scientific review.
When it comes to regulation for a new industry the industry must regulate itself, essentially and propose those regulations to the government.
Take EMSS rules proposed by ECF as an example. ECF does not have the slightest chance of backing it's EMSS rules by actual science. ECF can't afford the R&D so they rely on a common sense approach to the issue instead. As far as the government is concerned, proposed regulations must be science-based. Common sense approaches don't fly with them.
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I think it will be many years before BT ventures out into the vaping world with competitive products aimed at mods. I see them offering prefilled products at retail for the profit margin. They have the ability to market and promote ecigs under their brand, although it will be mostly through slick in store ads and deals.
These products are already in the stores and haven't affected the online vaping world. It's a new line of business for them and BT will give us credence with the FDA. Our biggest worry is that they will, as several said, try to subvert the FDA into creating specs that only they can meet. Another concern might be that they persuade the FDA to stop ecig related hardware shipments from entering the U.S. through customs.
Juices are primarily manufactured in the USA, with the exception of some DeKang products and a few from the UK. Pharmaceutical grade nicotine availability will possibly be a concern. The flavors are generally cake and candy flavors. Tobacco flavors could become difficult to find, though.
DIY may be our friend in the future. I see hardware as not being a long term issue. Yzer hit on safety and BT may just fund the research to give ecigs a clean bill of health through the FDA. Since they are so simple in concept, compliance should be easy once we see the extended spectrographic data produced by respected lab tests.
These products are already in the stores and haven't affected the online vaping world. It's a new line of business for them and BT will give us credence with the FDA. Our biggest worry is that they will, as several said, try to subvert the FDA into creating specs that only they can meet. Another concern might be that they persuade the FDA to stop ecig related hardware shipments from entering the U.S. through customs.
Juices are primarily manufactured in the USA, with the exception of some DeKang products and a few from the UK. Pharmaceutical grade nicotine availability will possibly be a concern. The flavors are generally cake and candy flavors. Tobacco flavors could become difficult to find, though.
DIY may be our friend in the future. I see hardware as not being a long term issue. Yzer hit on safety and BT may just fund the research to give ecigs a clean bill of health through the FDA. Since they are so simple in concept, compliance should be easy once we see the extended spectrographic data produced by respected lab tests.
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WE already do not buy Blu cigarettes.
It's the all the people OUT THERE buying Blu cigarettes you want to talk to.
Yes, but who's to say that BT won't try to get rid of Chinese competition by persuading the FDA to outlaw foreign manufacture of ecig hardware and juice. That probably wouldn't fly since most of our medicines are made offshore. Something used as a choice instead of by prescription would be hard to outlaw unless harm is shown to exist.
The big crunch came over a year ago when the FDA was taking ecigs to court after testing a Ruyan ecig and finding 8ng/dl of nitrosamines and a trace of DEG. It turned out that the carcinogen (nitrosamines) came from the tobacco extraction process and a comparable amount existed in nicotine gum, which was a pharma product. They eventually had to concede and release the shipments they held at the ports. Later, the FDA lost in a U.S. district court and ecigs were later classed as tobacco products, allowing the FDA to regulate them as such.
The FDA's side of the case.
FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes
Story of the aftermath of the case.
E-cigarettes to get FDA regulations like tobacco - CBS News
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Just to clarify a bit...
The FDA started confiscating shipments at the urging of the various "non-profit" health conglomerates.
Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA claiming that they had no right to confiscate shipments.
NJoy later joined the lawsuit because of their shipments getting confiscated.
The FDA testing took place during the trial, and was an attempt to smear Smoking Everywhere and NJoy.
The FDA did not release any shipments that they had confiscated until they lost the lawsuit.
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