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Boge Cartomizers and Provari wattage

Discussion in 'ProVari' started by ebbrey, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. ebbrey

    ebbrey Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2012
    Norway
    Hey there

    im currently using my provari v2 with boge 2.0 cartomizers. I crank it to 4.7 and love it.

    But im going to buy some new boges. Im reading different threads where people like the 2.0 LR because you get more wattage with non VV rigs. But since we all have a VV a Boge SR 3.0 would be a better choice?

    Read that the higher resistance cartomizers will give me more battery time, experience?
    Throat hit and temperature is the most important things for me, and since i like to vape on 10 watts aprox, that should give me the same "feeling" with a 3.0 just cranking it up?


    Another question regarding the boges. Anyone know a dealer that has the correct Boge XXL's (50mm tube lenght) different sites operate with including and excluding thread and mixing between marking of the new XXL's and the old XL. Its really confusing :p

    Come to think of it, provari's should have had a watts display in the menu. Showing what wattage you are vaping on would be useful to people. or? :p

    Thx for reading
     
  2. retird

    retird Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 31, 2010
    North Side
    The only carto's I use are SR Boge.......2.8 to 3.0 ohm.......at 8.4 watts mostly.....you can do the math to get to the voltage for your provari.....

    just my 2-cents....
     
  3. lalasalama8

    lalasalama8 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 7, 2012
    north carolina coast
    Crystal Clear Vaping is carrying the Boge XL's..45mm length EXCLUDING threads, which will fit perfectly in a DCC Smoktech carto tank...

    Crystal Clear Vaping

    these 3.0's are out of stock right now, but I emailed and was told they should be back soon, along with 2.0 xl's, which I haven't seen anywhere as of yet.
     
  4. Slurp812

    Slurp812 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2011
    Northwest Ohio
    2.0 ohms @ 4.7 volts is right around 11 watts. With a 3.0 carto, you would need ~ 5.75 volts to get the same power (hit) so either would work fine. With VV just about any carto will get you where you want to go! :D
     
  5. Andy Thatcher

    Andy Thatcher Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 22, 2012
    Brit in Orlando
    I am using a 2 ohm in a tank at the moment but usually use 3 ohm.

    That is the beauty of variable voltage you can adjust anyway you want.
     
  6. Procrustinator

    Procrustinator Full Member

    Dec 3, 2011
    USA
    Higher resistance cart's will give more battery life AT THE SAME VOLTAGE (sorry, not sure how to make text bold). As you increase the battery voltage, the battery life will decrease. Think about it. If you charge your 3.7 volt battery to 4.2 volts, but then demand that the unit puts out 5 volts, it's gonna drain your battery quicker.
     
  7. ebbrey

    ebbrey Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 17, 2012
    Norway
    Yeah this is what i thought, and the reason i went with LR. But reading threads here on ECF made me think i had the wrong resistance if i wanted most out of my battery but thx for the clarification.


    I already have these, im looking for longer Boge's
     
  8. knivesout

    knivesout Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 27, 2012
    MT
    Using a standard resistance carto as opposed to a LR will be easier on your battery. There's more to it than just voltage, you can use an ohm's law calculator to see that even delivering the same power (wattage), a SR will draw less current (amps) than a lower resistance carto. Bottom line - you can get the same vape, a little warmer actually, on a 3 ohm carto (at 5.7v) as you're getting at 4.7v on your 2 ohm cartos, only with the advantage of less battery drain.
     
  9. pdavey

    pdavey Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jul 28, 2011
    So Cal
    I am using 2.0 XL boge's at the moment in my DCT tanks running on an ego-t batt. I am about to make the jump to the Provari. If I am reading this right, I can use up my 2.0's up and then make the switch 3.0's to save on battery life? I love the vape I get now but would like the option to up the ante if needed.
     
  10. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    In terms of vaping quality, 10 watts is 10 watts, regardless of how you get it. You will still load the battery by using a higher voltage at higher resistance, but maybe not quite as much.

    Current in amps is Voltage/Resistance. 4.7v / 2 ohms = 2.35 amps (about 11 watts)

    At 3 ohms, you'd need to be at 5.75v to create 11 watts of heat. That would draw 1.91 amps (5.75 / 3).

    I'd say that battery life would be better with the 3 ohm carto. Low resistance eats current.

    That's not counting the work that the boost circuitry in the Provari regulator has to do to create 5.75v vs 4.7. It shouldn't be that much difference. Maybe we will see wattage calculation in the Provari V3 one day (just guessing). It should be an inexpensive upgrade. V1 to V2 was 20 bucks.

    Safe Power and Vaping Chart
     
  11. adami

    adami Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2011
    usa
    For the same output wattage, the current draw at the battery will be very similar (and never less than the output wattage divided by the battery voltage). Running a higher impedance atomizer at a higher voltage for the same wattage will not necessarily give you better battery life on a VV device (it would only give you better battery life if the conversion circuit is more efficient outputting higher voltage, more likely on a VMax than a ProVari).

    In fact, contrary to common wisdom, I suspect the best battery life on the ProVari for a given output power will be found using lower resistance atomizers and a voltage between 3.2-4.2V. This is based on the assumption that the conversion circuit is more efficient when running closer to the input voltage.
     
  12. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    You are probably correct about using voltages closer to the actual battery voltage. The regulator is performing less work in that range.

    Since current is V/R and wattage is V^2/R, the numbers will skew from each other at various combinations of voltage and resistance. Weird, isn't it? It's the reason why current draw is half at 220vac compared to 100vac with the same load. Vector math enters in because of the frequency and duty cycle, but the comparison is still valid with DC.

    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm
     
  13. adami

    adami Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2011
    usa
    Dave, the battery's voltage isn't changed. Assume constant input voltage and you'll find that the current draw in a VV device is tied entirely to output wattage. Resistance is futile. Higher wattage means lower battery life at ANY output voltage.
     
  14. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    True, but a boost regulator opens up new possibilities of obtaining more efficiency in atomization. It could be compared to pressure vs flow in a good sprinkler. The pressure at the tap hasn't changed, but we get much more efficiency by using a good sprinkler rather than a hand held hose nozzle.

    You have a point in that we don't know what is happening to the source voltage and current being required by the regulator's input for a demand at the output. The battery is seeing a different sort of load than the regulator is experiencing directly from the atomizer.

    All sorts of variables enter in, including the efficiency of vaping the liquid in a more efficient way that reduces the length of the vape time. We can dog this thing all we want, but the end result is vaping satisfaction. I find that I enjoy a 3 ohm carto a little more at 4.2v than a 2 ohm at 3.7v. The numbers show less current draw at the same wattage. I agree that heat on the coil is energy from the battery to the regulator.

    There's no magic involved, just efficiency of operation exhibited by the numbers. To get the real story, we would need to look at the efficiency of the linear regulator at various voltages and current draws. That's the variable we don't have.
     
  15. adami

    adami Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2011
    usa
    I concur, and I think at 3.7-4.2 you're probably operating right in the ProVari's most efficient range. That's based only on intuition, but ultimately I expect it to be most efficient around the input voltage.

    There are definitely other factors, namely converter efficiency. Without some data we can only guess where it's highest (except when running at battery voltage since it should just dump straight through). I'd hope the worst case is ~80% efficiency and it's certainly possible to have peak efficiency in the mid 90s.

    When I see the claim that using higher impedance atomizers at a similar output wattage will give you lower current/better battery life on a VV device I feel compelled by the laws of thermodynamics to mention that it doesn't work like that.
     
  16. donnah

    donnah Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    The XL Boge single coil cartos are back in stock at ccv!! You can choose from 2 or 3 ohm. I have been using these in my dc tanks for several weeks now and they are awesome! I've had no flooding or dry hits with one (largish) punched hole. They are 45mm long meaning they fit in the longer tanks originally meant for the dc cartos!

    I get better battery life using higher resistance cartos as opoposed to the low resistance cartos like the resurrector. I don't know and don't really care how it's done, all I know is that it is done. :D
     
  17. elgatoenelsombrero

    elgatoenelsombrero Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 1, 2012
    Gautier, MS
    4.7v on 2 ohm boges? I vape 2 ohm boges at 4.2v and the battery lasts me roughly a full day, swap and recharge at about 6 pm each day. I tried at 4.4v and my battery was registering at 3.3v halfway through work day at 12 noon and I'm using 18650 2000mah AW IMR high drain batts so I just wasn't cool with that kind of battery drainage. I just ordered some boge 3.0 and some 2.5-2.9 vision stardusts so I could try out higher voltages.
     
  18. moishesmom

    moishesmom Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 27, 2012
    west bloomfield
    If you're still looking, myvaporstore.com has the Boge XXXL 3. ohm - just ordered some myself.
     
  19. Slurp812

    Slurp812 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2011
    Northwest Ohio
    As I understand the boost/buck circuit on the Provari, it is always in operation. Meaning it is always drawing current pulses from the battery to produce output voltage. Even when V out is equal to V in. Some still swear that they get more battery life with a 3 ohm vs a 1.5. Maybe they run the 3 ohm at a little lower wattage, not sure. I haven't yet seen any hard data on the efficiency vs ohms on the Provari. Theoretically 8 watts should should give the same battery life no matter what the load resistance. But circuit efficiency would need to be accounted for...
     
  20. adami

    adami Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2011
    usa
    Since the V out is constant and V in is always decreasing, you're practically correct. Technically when Vout and Vin are equal there's literally nothing for the buck/boost circuit to do and the current is effectively piped straight through with no conversion losses.

    I've gone from running 1.5 Ohms at 4.0V to 3.3 Ohms at 6.0V and I'm noticing marginally lower battery life. It's hard to judge accurately due to the blink starting at a higher voltage. Last night it started blinking at 3.6V and before it was blinking closer to 3.2V.

    I don't think it makes much of a practical difference. Maybe on a mini it'd be more significant. Given the minimal difference in battery life that I'm experiencing (and the fact that the change is contrary to the common understanding and consistent with my understanding of thermodynamics), I think most people are seeing what they've been told to expect regarding higher impedance and battery life.
     
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