Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos

[wegster]

Well, I've got a greencig g300 coming, and some carts (paid for out of pocket, not comped..). I haven't opened the single greencig cart I have up yet, but it's still smoking away happily seeming, and have topped it off with .2ml or so (around 4 drops, but measured in syringe). Obviously, will open it up later for dissection.

I *do* really like the greencig carts on the KR battery, in that it effectively has an 'adjustable draw - no holes in the cart, so while you don't screw it down to '100% tight,' it's snug, and has a good more analog draw (I don't like 'empty straw' light draws). Want the draw harder? Snug it down 1/16th-1/8th of a turn. Less? Loosen it slightly (and I mean slightly, the cart's not 'hanging off the end.')

The G300..sounds like:
1. The batteries are so-so on life (shorter battery than the G220), but the G300 is the only one with a PCC, which I'll admit, I really dig, wish more manufacturers had. The G220 has longer batteries, which I'd prefer, but again, I want the PCC. I can always use the KR batteries at home, will see.
2. There is a cutoff on them, sounds like ~4 seconds. And after ~30 drags, the unit does shut down for 3 minutes. While this *sounds* bad...wouldn't it be *nice* to know when indeed you've smoked '1 cigarette,' or 'two'? (15-30 inhales). Of course, the cutoff means it's a timing thing - if I can get 'enough' from a single draw, cool, I'll use it for 'smoke breaks' when I'm in the office. If not, then effectively I double inhale 2x vs 1, then it will 'remind me' I've had either 1 or two smokes 'equivalent on inhales,' and 3 minutes isn't terrible. I expect it's likely annoying if you do NOT 'smoke until it resets' though, but we'll see, am open to that being kinda cool, assuming it hits well enough in the cutoff time. Not sure if the G220 batteries have the same feature or not?

Either way, it's somewhat off-topic, but related. Will probably do a real review on it, with video, when I'm able to (read - weekend), and post a dissected cart shot once I go through this single cart I've got.

 

[EDO]

Peaches...the picture looks very blurry to me. Does it look sharp to you?

Wagster.... I like the fact that these Greencig carts work on the KR808d batteries because they are 280mahs.....they last a long time. Can you or anyone find out how many mahs for the G220 and the G300 batteries? How many mahs in the G300 PCC. I don't why the batteries are so expensive....I am trying to figure it out. I definitely would pay a higher price for the carts if they can last longer and not burn the carts.


BTW I have been taking the carts apart for the last ten times for the KR808d after at least 200 puffs and not one burnt cart. I do get a bunch of gunk around the ato but that its it. Again making sure they are correctly filled from the beginning has made a huge difference. But still I am very interested in these GreenEcigs....specially if they have better QC.

 

[Peaches]

Peaches...the picture looks very blurry to me. Does it look sharp to you? .

If you had read the Title, I did say it's the best I could do. Unfortunate that it's blurry.

 

[wegster]

Peaches...the picture looks very blurry to me. Does it look sharp to you?

Wagster.... I like the fact that these Greencig carts work on the KR808d batteries because they are 280mahs.....they last a long time. Can you or anyone find out how many mahs for the G220 and the G300 batteries? How many mahs in the G300 PCC. I don't why the batteries are so expensive....I am trying to figure it out. I definitely would pay a higher price for the carts if they can last longer and not burn the carts.

Haven't been able to find that one, will let ya know if I can dig it up, or if it's on the packaging. I will say a greencig cart on a KR battery is nice, it's effectively 'adjustable draw'..

BTW I have been taking the carts apart for the last ten times for the KR808d after at least 200 puffs and not one burnt cart. I do get a bunch of gunk around the ato but that its it. Again making sure they are correctly filled from the beginning has made a huge difference. But still I am very interested in these GreenEcigs....specially if they have better QC.

Huh. Surprising to me, but maybe not to others. Or maybe not..really, there's been multiple mentions regarding inconsistency, which is really down to QC, or possibly lack thereof. Maybe some batches are old, others not? Manual 'cart filler person' (Believe all e-cig carts are still filled by hand, no?) having a rough day?

I did pop open a few KR carts, filling from the top, but with bottom off. Will do a box or two of them that way when I get a chance, let sit overnight, put the condoms back on, and give those a try for comparison.

Haven't really done the math, of replacing attys but endless refills with a handful of blanks carts vs either of these yet, just rough math...obviously, cart prices needs to come down though, IMO...I think an overall expenditure per day somewhere in the $3-$4.50/day range is reasonable, +/- a little bit - convenience (eg, two piece) might play a part in that a bit, or expensive carts but able to get a solid refill or two out of them to balance it out. Unfortunately, I've only gotten a handful of decent KR carts so far, so any tries at that data would be skewed one way or another. Hopefully the greencigs prove to be better (ordered 20-30 or so carts with it, to get some sort of valid overall opinion).

Anyways, I'm with ya - anything that *helps* the 2 piece work better, be safer, last longer (safely), is good..just hoping it doesn't wind up at a cost of $10/day if/when we find it!

 

[RsL]

EDO isn't having problems with the KR808D-1 carts because he is taking them apart and loading juice in them before he even uses them! Hey, that's cool and I'm glad it works well for him. I thank him for his insight and analysis!

But we as vapors shouldn't have to take a 'disposable cart', perform minor surgery on it, and load juice to it before we use it. It should just work when we put it on and not start burning up inside after just a dozen hits.

Anyway, I took another one apart today before I got the burnt taste and there was already evidence of the material starting to burn....

 

[Hangar]

Sure , these carts are $29.00 for ten...They are also dispoable and are not really designed to work on the KR808D-1 ...The reality is that the manufacturers suggested retail is $49.00 and they have actually sent me an email asking me not to sell so cheap...They are of superior design in that they have a mini 901 style atty inside and are filtered...in other words any airbourne particles cannot get into your mouth...They are longer and hold more liquid andd last MUCH longer than any I have used...Also the flavor is the most authentic I have yat tasted when it comes to the tobaccos..They have some other unique flavors available as well...Like oriental and western which are truly like tobacco...The only draw back I see is the priuce right now and they are much harder to fill...I have only tried once and ounce you open these the little plastic seal is broken and they leak...Unless you are very patient and drip in battery end which I have never had great success with....You know just athought on wegs cutoff theory....These cigs have a cut off and have never been able to get one to BURN...The other feature these G220 and G300 have is after like 30 puffs or so the batt shuts off for a 3 minute or so period...These swithces and carts are far more advanced than any other ecig in the market...Maybe too advanced at this time to justify the price for some? The reviews are coming from the experts..We will just have to wait and see...For me personally, I use the greencigs exclusively and am getting spoiled with the flavors... If I keep smoking them there arent gonna be any left to sell!!!!!

do these cartomziers for the G300 last alot longer than the 808d-1's?...if so, how much longer?

also, are they available as a non-PG based cart?

Thanks!

 

[RsL]

Rsl,
Im not sure what you mean about evidence of starting to burn?...Is there a residue? a dark spot? Because I have used well over 150 (about I guess)of these carts and tasted MAYBE 5 that have had the burndt taste your talking about, and the burndt taste is really more like a metal taste than a burndt paper taste...I know what burndt paper taste like from smoking cigs when I would smoke them all the way down until the filter burndt...and the taste I got is much different...I have also seen this on atomisers and batting of all my ecigs from time to time (801, 901,401,701,601)...But when I detect the burndt taste I stop and throw it away or refill it....I dont keep sucking on it until it burns my lip or the batting melts into a toxic fume....My 2 cents...Does this happen to some one else?

I've gotten a burnt taste out of every one I've ever used and I've always used that as a sign to throw it away. These things actually vape better once they start burning. haahaaa But I mention that because how do you know when the cart is dried up if you don't taste the burning? Does the taste just disappear as well as the vapor? If so, that has never happened to me. Basically you could vape on these things until everything was burned up inside. I can tell I'm inhaling something which is burning and sure enough, I rip it apart and not only is is black where it burned, there are also holes, sometimes large ones where it has burned right through.

It's not like a cart drying up (as well as the atomizer) on a 510 or any other 3 piece. It's not that kind of metalic taste and you'll never see the filler in a 510 cart turning black and starting to burn. But yeah, it's burning material inside and it's evident when you take it apart.

My experience today where I took it apart before I tasted the burning, it showed black marks where it was starting to burn. It's not the discoloration from the juice, that is a totally different color and look....

 

[EDO]

EDO isn't having problems with the KR808D-1 carts because he is taking them apart and loading juice in them before he even uses them! Hey, that's cool and I'm glad it works well for him. I thank him for his insight and analysis!

But we as vapors shouldn't have to take a 'disposable cart', perform minor surgery on it, and load juice to it before we use it. It should just work when we put it on and not start burning up inside after just a dozen hits.

Anyway, I took another one apart today before I got the burnt taste and there was already evidence of the material starting to burn....

RSL your exactly right...I used to complain up a down these boards as well about the KR808d units. After all the hype by Steve and others, I wanted to wring some ones neck. But too many people that I trust loved the original VKs. So I figured out that the manufacturer is the ones to blame. There is way too much variation....carts that have large holes vs small holes. Batteries with 4 holes vs 2 holes, large holes vs small holes etc. If you get everything inorder the KR808rd1 is as good as Steve said it was. With eastmall juice it will produce almost double the vapor and throat hit of any ecig including the 510. It took me a month to figure how to get everything just right....but I had to modify some of the carts and the batteries to be able to vape them correctly. Not to mention most of the carts aren't filled correctly...they are half full.

Since these are made by a single manufacturer...the QC is surprisingly bad. I can see the hand made cart not being filled right but not differences in the batteries and carts holes.

BTW...you want the small holes carts with the long two hole batteries with large holes. The original DVP9 (from vaperello) white batteries with two holes and the DVP9 carts with smaller holes were the correct combination. The only problem was they weren't filled correctly....half filled. This would cause the cartmaterial to burn prematurely. I bought some more DVP9 batteries from eastmall...no good....the holes way too small....had to be modified.

 

[EDO]

Before refilling them from the beginning I used to vape the KR808d....then suddenly the cart would start getting hot....I would add more liquid and it would get even worse....would actually start to burn my lips. I have taken every single one of my carts apart after using them. Every time the cart got hot the cart material had burned. The best way to tell if these things are starting to burn is to smell the carts ever so often. I can smell them burning before I can taste them burning. I haven;t had this problem since I started to fill them before starting to vape....but I have to take them apart the first time to fill them properly. IF you put too much liquid in the beginning it will choke the ato and result in premature burnt carts as well.

 

[EDO]

Now I am confused.... I thought we were talking about the kr808d1. I think RsL is using the kr808d1 and is disappointed about the carts and the units not being consistent as well as burning of the cart material.

 

[RsL]

RSL your exactly right...I used to complain up a down these boards as well about the KR808d units. After all the hype by Steve and others, I wanted to wring some ones neck. But too many people that I trust loved the original VKs. So I figured out that the manufacturer is the ones to blame. There is way too much variation....carts that have large holes vs small holes. Batteries with 4 holes vs 2 holes, large holes vs small holes etc. If you get everything inorder the KR808rd1 is as good as Steve said it was. With eastmall juice it will produce almost double the vapor and throat hit of any ecig including the 510. It took me a month to figure how to get everything just right....but I had to modify some of the carts and the batteries to be able to vape them correctly. Not to mention most of the carts aren't filled correctly...they are half full.

Since these are made by a single manufacturer...the QC is surprisingly bad. I can see the hand made cart not being filled right but not differences in the batteries and carts holes.

BTW...you want the small holes carts with the long two hole batteries with large holes. The original DVP9 (from vaperello) white batteries with two holes and the DVP9 carts with smaller holes were the correct combination. The only problem was they weren't filled correctly....half filled. This would cause the cartmaterial to burn prematurely. I bought some more DVP9 batteries from eastmall...no good....the holes way too small....had to be modified.

In my opinion the 2 part design is the way to go, because it would be great if we could just slap a cart/atomizer on a battery and then vape away for a few hours before replacing. But this first attempt at it is just that, a first attempt...and it's got a ways to go before I think it should become a mainstream product.

EDO, I'll give you credit, you have went to much more trouble than I am willing to do to make it 'work'. Personally I'll stick with my 510 for now. Yeah, I have to change the batteries more often and top off, but it works great and I know I'm not inhaling cartridge material which is slowly burning up inside.

Yes, there was WAY too much hype about the KR808D-1 and you can thank a certain vendor for that. The thing is, what did your parents tell you when you were a kid? "Son, if something seems to be too good to be true, it probably is." And that's what I feel we have with the KR808D-1 or the VK as most people call it. And I'll include the other 2 piece designs like the E9, but with that one the cutoff was so short on the battery I don't think it ever got around to burning things up inside. But that's just speculation as I gave up on the E9 long ago and moved on to better devices.

Yes, I'm venting now and part of that is because this design has gotten very popular now and more and more suppliers are selling it. Hey, I'll admit, I used to recommend this device to people who were just getting into vaping. But that burning taste I would always get concerned me, and then when I finally started ripping the cart apart and seeing how the damn thing was burning up inside, well, I just couldn't think that it was good for me to be inhaling that.

Maybe it's not that big of a deal to vape on them until the burning begins and you then you just switch carts. But I'm not willing to be that guinea pig. I'm also not willing to go through the trouble you do to make it work. Like I said, I think it's great that you have figured out a way to make them work, but I might as well just use my 510 if I have to take apart a 'disposable' cart, examine it, then juice if neccessary and put it all back together. Geez...

I think I'm going back to the 510 thread now. Much more positive things to talk about there.... haahaaaa

 

[RsL]

Again , rsl I dont understand how you realised "the evidence of starting to burn"..I read one of your posts from yesterday where you recommended this to some one else and today your saying that everyone you ever vaped burned up?



You might want to consider a KR808D-1. They are a 2 piece unit with the cartridge and atomizer in one piece. Once the juice is gone you just throw it away and put on a new one. Since you are a light smoker one of these just might get you through an entire day. At worst you would just have to carry an extra cartridge and battery with you to make it through the day.

I guess Im confused ?

I am talking about the KR808D-1. The Vapor King or any of the other many names for it. YES, I used to recommend the device, very recently as you point out. But like I said in a post I just made, that burnt taste always bothered me and now that I have been ripping the carts apart the last couple of days on a regular basis and examining them, I have certainly changed my opinion on the device. Now I know why I was tasting that burnt taste, and it had nothing to do with the atomizer as I first thought.

I'm not complaining about any of the suppliers, but the device itself. If people think I'm nuts, then I just invite them to take apart the carts themselves and see what they find. Pictures have already been posted and I could add more. If that looks normal to people and they are Ok with it, then go ahead and use the device. I just know I won't...

 

[EDO]

RSL...The 510 is an excellent unit....if you haven't tried the hole in the cart method....go to the tips forum....that is a simple yet excellent mod for the 510.

I am with you on the burning cart material...it is worrisome...if you do use the kr808d again I would take the 30seconds and fill it it from the beginning. Take off the cap put a few drops from the top end...turn over put a few drops from the battery end....when the cart material looks nice and moist it is properly filled. If it becomes wet then blow out the extra liquid onto a napkin....put everything together. Every 40 puffs put 3-4 drops of liquid from battery end. After two hundred puffs throw it away. It is very simple.

 

[ditc]

Not to turn this thread into a "how-to" thread, but EDO, could you very briefly describe your procedure of how you fill the kr808d-1 carts before you vape them? i am expecting a sizeable order of both kr808d-1 carts and another starter kit, that i ordered before all of this immediate concern about the safety arose, and i don't want to send them back, throw them away, or sell them,, so i figured, perhaps just a slight insight as to the way you refill these as to get the most out of the carts, and to avoid this mysterious burning. thanks in advance!

 

[RsL]

Edo ,
you are correct...That post above has a post from rsl from yesterday in another thread that he was recomending the KR808D-1 to someone...Im sorry I didnt make it clear that it was a quote ...The reason I am confused is as he says above , hes venting since he started ripping carts apart...I guess that was last night?

Yes, I made that post, but you can PM that particular person now and ask him what I said to him via a PM message later that night. I said, "Read this thread before you buy the KR808D-1 you are thinking about."

Maybe I'm jumping the gun and over reacting to Wegsters pictures and what I have seen in the last 24 hours with my own carts. But like I said, I've always been concerned about the burnt taste, but I just ignored it. Then I saw wegsters pictures and looked at my own carts and changed my mind about the KR808D-1. That's my only point....take it for what it's worth.

 

[ditc]

haha,, EDO you answered my question before i even asked it! But now that I've seen what you said,,, do you take BOTH the top white cap off AND the smaller clear plastic ring that is under that before you drip? Or do you JUST take off the top white cap, and drip into the middle of the clear plastic ring, while keeping that plastic ring in place? Also, you say after 200 puffs, throw away,,, you never start from scratch again by filling from top & bottom after 200 puffs? you just deem the cart to be worthless after that? after all, these carts were initially advertised as being able to give 250-300 puffs AS IS, without any extra filling of juice. Just curious, as I'd like to find the best method. THANKS!

 

[EDO]

Edo ,
you are correct...That post above has a post from rsl from yesterday in another thread that he was recomending the KR808D-1 to someone...Im sorry I didnt make it clear that it was a quote ...The reason I am confused is as he says above , hes venting since he started ripping carts apart...I guess that was last night?

Drew...Ok cool I thought I was repsonding to the wrong ecig model.lol

Lets go to a new topic....Hangar asked a good quesion about the greencigs. How long do the carts last? Do they last as long as the KR808rd carts? You mentioned the taste is authentic how about the vapor production and throat hit...etc.? Just trying to get a feel for these carts.

thanks.

 

[wegster]

I don't see the confusion here.
I think we've established:
- QC is an issue, with many carts not being properly filled.
- At the *very least*, I believe we mostly agree that these(in this case, either the e9 or the KR808D-1s), the carts deteriorate/'end their life' differently than traditional 3 pieces, which does indeed involve burning up material inside the cart.
- All carts come from same manufacturing line (KR carts), thus QC is suspect regardless of where it comes from.

What is *not* yet established:
- how bad that QC may be
- when do 'normal' carts start burning internally?
- If Edo's method will stop this from happening on all carts, used within reason (top off every single cart before use, removing the mouthpiece, etc), or if these units simply burn within the manufacturers guidelines of usage (which is what, a pack of smokes or so?)
- At what point a cart, properly filled, starts to burn internally.
- Does it start to burn before a taste or vapor change is noticed?
- What is the inner burned material? Are there safety concerns on inhaling it?

From there, really, most information is known, short of added info from the manufacturers. Either they perform reliably, per manufacturer's guidelines, and safely, or they do not. If they do not, what are the consequences, and can they be avoided, by Edo' method, or are these really '50 hits at best' use, or will the manufacturer improve them? etc etc.

*shrug* I'm not seeing any advantage to anyone in disputing some of the above. If you don't believe it, start tearing apart your carts *before* you can tell they're burning or flavor's changing, then post the pics and details, or at least look at them. I'm sure we're not the *only* ones reading this thread.

EDO - as I said, I'll try your method on a handful of carts this weekend, and report back, as well as random cart sampling and disassembly *before* 'normal' out of box carts start to taste funky. If that works, then it's an improvement, but one that I'm unsure is financially viable at the price of the KR carts, and at the very least leaves us with:
- manufacturer QC needs work.
- at what point does the cart burn, is it detectable or *before* it's noticed in taste or vapor, and is it safe or harmful?

*shrug*

PS - totally willing to be shown any or all of the above is wrong. I like the KR, when it's working *well*..

 

[EDO]

haha,, EDO you answered my question before i even asked it! But now that I've seen what you said,,, do you take BOTH the top white cap off AND the smaller clear plastic ring that is under that before you drip? Or do you JUST take off the top white cap, and drip into the middle of the clear plastic ring, while keeping that plastic ring in place? Also, you say after 200 puffs, throw away,,, you never start from scratch again by filling from top & bottom after 200 puffs? you just deem the cart to be worthless after that? after all, these carts were initially advertised as being able to give 250-300 puffs AS IS, without any extra filling of juice. Just curious, as I'd like to find the best method. THANKS!

ditc... take everything off the top....tilt the cart and drip directly onto the cart material....turn over and drip into the battery end....turn over and check to see if the cart material looks moist...if it is....put everything toghether and vape. If the cat material is wet... though the mouth end blow out the excess liquid while holding a napkin at battery end....check to see if the cart looks moist and not wet...if moist put everything together....and start to vape. Every 30-40 puffs put 3-4 drops of eliquid from battery end. I throw them away afetr about 200-250 puffs since if you vape on these too long...eventually there will be so much gunk on the ato....that it will start to heat up and cause the cart material to burn....definite no no.


One thing good about these units if you do everything right the hits you get are very strong....I went from 5ml a day vaper to about 2-3ml a day. So in the long run you will save $$. Bad thing about these units if you don't fill them right you will burn the cart. Also since these units do burn the cart more than other 3 piece types they are probably the least safe of the ecigs.

 

[ShMiGgY]

nnngghh... *pulls on collar*.. my buddy at work just got a KR808D-1. We all love it. I guess i was a bit envious at first... Now i don't know what to think... If it's brown, flush it down... so to speak...

I have only traditional, 3 piece e-cigs. Never once experienced any burning or even browning of wick material in any of them... .. maybe of some residue on the coil, but, that's not too big a deal in my book.. feels way cleaner than what i see with these... i just clean them if it hits that point...

kinda glad i didn't get one...