Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos

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lotus14

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I too was sold big time on the kr808d-1. Been vaping them for about a month. Great taste, great vapor, and very convenient, if a bit pricey. Better than anything I'd tried. After a few refills I'd get the burnt taste and toss 'em. But they're inconsistent. One cart might taste good for 3 refills and the next would taste burnt after 100 puffs and refilling those was useless.

After seeing the pics here I took a few apart and saw the melted, burned insulating material - before I tasted anything foul. Yikes! I don't want to smoke that.

I am not interested in dissecting and operating on these things to make them safer or work better. The convenience is what makes them great. I'd rather just go back to filling and dripping a 3 piece.

Drew,
What is the difference between your G300 and the G220? Do they use the same carts - I only see G220 carts on your site.

How does cart life compare to the kr808d-1, both in terms of puffs, refills, and life until burnt?
 

ditc

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EDO, Since i have a pretty large amount of "used" kr808d-1 carts that I stopped using BEFORE any burnt taste, but stopped using RIGHT AFTER they lost flavor, and then plugged back up w/ the end condoms,,, would you suggest against trying to refill these ONCE using your method? It'd be a shame to throw all these carts away if I can get one go-round with them.... have you ever tried refilling a used cart using the method that you outlined for me (Thank you by the way!)? And if so, what were your results?
 

wegster

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    So, I dissected a G300/G220/greencig cart, along with another E9 and KR cart. Side by side, the KR and E9 carts are pretty damned close. The E9 cart has a 'wrap' of the 'mystery material' and the KR has more traditional poly for the 'outer wick.' There's a rail inside each leading from the battery hole towards the wick, for some reason, the KRs lead down nearly right to the atomizer, so unless the poly (on the KR, feels identical to the poly/fluval in 3 piece carts) witcks a *whole* lot better than we know it does, it's unlikely you'll get the whole cart moist without rolling it, filling from the mouthpiece end, etc. But, I can see how a few drops, like dripping, might be an ok idea, drops right on the atty area nearly. Oh yeah, and a lighter for a half second brings both up in nasty smelling flames on the inner wick, when moist. probably not too much of a surprise by now, but..

    Will have to do the rest of the pics later, or bring it into a different thread. The greencig carts are indeed different. Mine had just started to get a slight bad taste, after vaping on it on and off for at least half the day, but not like the 'there is fire in my mouth' feeling like the burning KR carts have done, just sort of, not great, and familiar, I'd been 'topping it off' periodically, but not much, maybe a top off of a few drops every few hours or so. So, I opened the back up, mouthpiece side, which was *glued* in place, or seemed to be, and had an o-ring little seal on it. No inner silicone ring, like the KR, but about as deep as both combined, with the o-ring and a sealer as well. Once I got it open, I was confronted with something that made it obvious why I couldn't see through it, like on the KR and E9 carts...a chunk of plastic or nylon. I didn't dissect it too carefully, because I don't feel like locating the dremel right now, so butchered the cart with needlenose slowly, then grabbed onto the plastic/nylon cylinder.

    Huh. Does this look *familiar* to any of you?

    p5280733.jpg


    No? How bout now?
    (the black cart and poly being a 510 cart..)
    p5280735.jpg


    Heh. Indeed, it's a nearly traditional style coiled atomizer and a cart. The cart filling is slightly denser than my 510 or 401 cart poly, but it's poly. Filling it, it holds what looked like just over .5ml of fluid (it was quite dry when I pulled it apart). Maybe that's not much, as the 510 holds that, but...let's take a peek inside:

    p5280736.jpg


    I'm not sure what the brown bit is, it *looks* like hair, and there seems well, a lot, but..look closely, it looks a lot like a standard 3 piece coil, doesn't it?

    Need to finish yanking it apart, but not tonight, have some work to wrap up yet...but:
    - this technically *is* a 'disposable standard atomizer cart,' or close to it. With the exception of the 'unknown hair' right now, which runs through the coils of the atomizer coil itself...it's pretty darn close, sort of a combination of the bridge wick and the inner atty wick in one..in this case, the battery hole leads *right* onto the coil windings, so I'd expect a drop at a time might last for a few hits 'right away.'

    Ok, while I was writing this, I 'peeled' the rest of it like a grape. With the rest of the cart gone, a *small* pin, or syringe *might* be able to reach the inside cart, or it might have moved the coil. It still heats up, although I wish I had a manual switch for this thing. The 'hair,' well...seems to be hair, of some sort. A loose strand will burn by flame, but unlike the others, there's no indication that it *has* burned, from the atomizer coil itself. While the cart fill was quite dry (like driest filling I've pulled from an e-cig yet kinda dry), the 'hair' is still somewhat moist. Squeezing it together you can see some juice.

    Pics of that later. But, I'd *love* to know what that inner 'hair' actually is. Assuming that's safe, and based on the other KR rip-aparts, while I think the price per cart is way overpriced...I'd say it's less 'surprising' in it's behavior..as in, it seemed to start to run dry, opened it up, and nothing burned.

    I'd almost wager that with the right pair of *very* slim needlenose, you could possibly remove the inner cart by itself and refill it, or, possibly a *thin* needle through the battery hole, or just some drops and blow it out, let it sit for a bit...sadly, I'm out of greencig carts right now, but...this might hold some promise.

    There does seem to also be a *small* pinhole on the bottom of the cart (facing the mouthpiece), which I'm not sure if I managed to do (I don't believe so, but need another cart)...if not, it might be possible to remove the mouthpiece and slowly drip in via the rear as well.

    Hmm. Ok, what the heck is the 'hair'?
     

    wegster

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    EDO, Since i have a pretty large amount of "used" kr808d-1 carts that I stopped using BEFORE any burnt taste, but stopped using RIGHT AFTER they lost flavor, and then plugged back up w/ the end condoms,,, would you suggest against trying to refill these ONCE using your method? It'd be a shame to throw all these carts away if I can get one go-round with them.... have you ever tried refilling a used cart using the method that you outlined for me (Thank you by the way!)? And if so, what were your results?

    How about pulling at least one of them apart and posting a pic of it?
    :)

    Even the KR cart pics I'll post later, after a dozen or so drags on the KR cart, that I *did* top off, from mouthpiece. It's not the charred mess the others are, but look closely, the material is already *just* starting to burn. Not conclusive, but I'm starting to think it may become so with some more carts...
     
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    wegster

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    More 'huh.' Laying the 'hair' against a refilled (pg) inside cart of the greencig, the 'hair' definitely gets capillary action going. You can almost watch it suck the juice out of the top of the poly cart fill.

    The coil is discolored, although I'm assuming it's the same as a normal atty..but then again, I've been topping off with some JC choc mint, so umm...no terrible surprise there.

    As far as 'reviving' these greencig carts, that would lend itself to just dripping a few drops in from the battery side, or on an original cart, possibly plugging the battery hole , and just leaving it battery hole down for a bit, to let the 'hair' wick up anything pushed towards the mouth of the inside cart.

    Also worth noting, is on the greencig cart, I don't have a greencig time limited battery, I've got the KR808D-1, and have been vaping on it fairly hard, 5-7 seconds, repeat, as with one cart, it's not like I can do all the tests I wanted to, so I figured I'd 'smoke it until it dies,' and drop a few drops into it along the way, then see what there was to see.

    Anyways, that's all I've got at the moment, maybe Drew or someone else can advise what the 'hair' may actually be.. ?
     

    EDO

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    ditc....I was trying at first to get the most out of these carts as well....but i am telling you it istn't worth risking burning the cart. If you do things right and if you have the right set up these ecigs will kick you in the .... I used to vape easily 5ml a day....now I am down to 2ml. I wish I could show every one how to use these the right way....but if you do everything right....they produce twice the vapor and throat hit as everything out there.....including twice the nicotine hit. I have use everything out there and these blow everything away. If you look at my posts a month ago I was .....ing left and right about the kr808d1....now I really love them but I still think they aren't the safest ecigs out there. Again these ecigs produce alot of crud and the more you use them the more there is a chance of burning the cart. Think about it 200 puffs is a lot of puffs....specially if they produce more vapor and throat hit than a regular cigarette.

    Like wegster said start taking the cart apart after using them....you'll see what we're talking about. You really don't vape on burnt cart material.
     

    EDO

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    Wegtser...those pics are pretty cool. I did read all that you wrote but did I get this right?....these cart are 1cm longer than the Kr808d carts but only hold .5ml of juice? How the hell does that equal to two packs of cigarettes? That is what the greenecig website advertises. Do you think that they outlast the Vk carts? The cart material look very pristine.....which is a huge plus. How does the vapor and throat hit compare to the the 510? Do you think it would be easy to top off from the battery end? How many of these would you go through in a day?
     

    wegster

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    Hi Edo,

    That's correct, let me measure cart capacity again, one sec. Without the poly inserted, they hold .7ml. It does seem the rear of the cart has a pinhole, as noted, which I think you've discovered from our KR/510 tricks thread, can help in evacuation of juice, and that does seem to be the case - the poly fill was *quite* dry. Whether or not the 'hair' is pre-moistened with fluid or not...dunno, I'd bet it can hold .3ml on it's own from dry.

    When on a KR battery, the taste is better (but that's subjective), it's more vapor than *I* at least have gotten from VKs in general, throat hit was pretty good on longer (5 second, slow/steady, not 'suck in as much as possible' draws). I can kinda see why people wanted to up the battery/atty on timers..tried a few 2-3 second drags, and good vapor, not so much on throat hit. Note we don't know what the greencig cutoff time is, may be a moot point. When dripping/topping off, the limited amount I did, it was about as expected, per the juice dripped. You know *my* experience so far on the VK/KR carts, maybe I have sensitive taste buds, dunno, but I taste 'funkiness' pretty soon on the KR carts, originally tried topping up, now ripping them apart or setting them aside to be ripped apart, so for *me*, yes, the single greencig cart I've had (so far, more hopefully Friday or Sat), would outlast a VK for 'dry or feeling like ready to go dry (like a normal 3 piece, reduced taste and vapor, but no burning), versus where a VK/KR cart 'tastes funky.'

    I definitely think you can drip from the battery end, whether or not you can get a *thin* needle in there to actually reach the inside cart, dunno. Probably not so likely, kinda tight. Might be able to drip a few, shine light, when fluid slows in sucking in, try blowing out slightly from mouthpiece, or setting battery side down for a minute or two, to remove any overflow. Either way, the battery hole has a direct path to the atomizer coil, through the coil 'cup' itself, so dripping definitely seems an option.

    Remember also - how much juice is *not* used in most e-cigs? All the 'squeezing old fill' videos, etc? The 'hair' wick was still wet/damp when I ripped it apart, and it *was* still smoking when I stopped...but the poly cart fill was damned dry...maybe the pinhole is there for that, so even with a VK larger cart, like the 3 pieces, it doesn't go dry, so the cart capacity may be somewhat of a moot point. Most KR carts I've opened so far, the outer poly was still at least moist, but it was still burning...so how much liquid is wasted?

    With 2-3 couple of drop topoffs, I was vaping on this thing nearly non-stop for hmm, am guessing a bit, concept of time is fubar when working nearly round the clock lately.. :-/ I'd say I got around 4 hours or so almost non-stop in hand, smoking maybe slightly slower than a smoke, and perhaps a bit of 'random' time on it before that. I wouldn't take those numbers to heart yet, really would prefer to wait until I get some more of them, and then will write own start, fill and qty, etc times. I did have to swap out KR batteries, may have been twice, while smoking it.

    Right now, besides the price, and like you, wanting to test a handful for normal duration, plus seeing how long I can refill them, I kinda like the cart, from my limited experience with it so far.

    Hope that helps..
     

    ditc

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    sounds to me as though the extra $$$ the greencig carts cost might be worth it,,, assuming you can get 400 or so puffs off of a cartridge, and better vapor/taste/throat hit and most importantly, no burning,,, plus, knowing that 1 out of every 4 or 5 wouldn't be complete or close to complete duds, as i seem to have found w/ a lot of the krd808-1 carts.... then again,, the whole "hair" thing kinda freaks me out,, i'll be honest,,, whether or not it performs miracles with holding the liquid or whatever it does,,, at the end of the day,, what the hell is it???!!?? i hope they didn't rob some graves and scalp some people to get whatever they put in those carts! haha... i prob wouldn't invest in a greencig set right away,, but if, as you say, you have the ability to use them with the krd808-1 batteries, i'd be willing to order some to see how they hold up,, hopefully if/when they become more popular and standard,,, perhaps the prices will go down a bit, and even better, hopefully the manufacturers of the krd808-1 carts will take notice of the better quality etc.. and step their game up!!
     

    Danny H

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    After much research on these cartomizers I have the following report.

    I totally took apart an atomizer and have found that the hole in the bottom, battery end, is actually a tube that goes in that is pushed up into the atomizer during production, about 1/2 of an inch long.

    By looking carefully at a cart you will see that there is an o-ring that separates the tube from outer casing. The o-ring is plastic.

    The wick is very tiny, and is wrapped with wire to produce the vapor.

    I believe that the wick is placed at the top of the tube during production.

    Once you use the cartormizer the wick soaks up more juice that is stored in the outer cotton.

    If the wick gets dry at any time for whatever reason it burns causing it not to soak up the juice. At this point no matter what you do will help the cartomizer survive.

    In my pics, hopefully you can see how i've taken this apart but this forum is not allowing me to upload more pics so i am limited into really getting into this with you.

    But to help keep your cartomizers working do this when vapeing:

    1.Slow down on the inbetween puffs, don't take 10 drags a minute because you will burn up the wick.
    2. Rotate your cartomizers. Take a pack of them with you when you go to work or an event, use one for a smoking session and rotate it for the next session, this will give the wick time to absorb more juice.
    3. Don't stick any paperclips or anything in the holes. If you do all you are doing is pushing the wick out of the hole and streching the wire that is wrapped around the wick which may cause the wire to break.
    4. Once it is burnt, it's dead, throw it away. It may be good for a one hitter but thats it. The burnt taste means the wick is dead and your smoking the wick. You can add a drop or two to make it come alive for a hit or two but thats it, anything else your wasting your time and your juice.
    5. Use your common sense, if you think about the atomizer as a lantern you will know that the lantern needs plenty of fuel to keep working or the wick will burn out. By adding a lot or fuel to a burnt wick won't make it work no matter how long you hold your lighter up to it, you need to go buy a new wick. Same thing here basically, If you puff a burnt atomizer your trying to light a burnt wick, it just doesn't help.

    Now if we can come up with a better wick material that would do the trick. I have some photos I'll try to add.

    Can't do it but heres a link to my gallery www.carbsofhartford.com - Atomizer for KR808D-1, vapor4life
     

    Drewsworld

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    Peaches

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    Wegster said:
    There does seem to also be a *small* pinhole on the bottom of the cart (facing the mouthpiece), which I'm not sure if I managed to do (I don't believe so, but need another cart)...if not, it might be possible to remove the mouthpiece and slowly drip in via the rear as well.
    On the Greenworld cartomizer that I dissected the "small" pinhole doesn't go all the way through to the poly in the plastic tube. I tried to put a thin syringe into the depression that looks like a pinhole but the tip of the syringe wouldn't go through.
    Looks like using the battery end might be the most practical way of topping off if desired.
     

    wegster

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    On the Greenworld cartomizer that I dissected the "small" pinhole doesn't go all the way through to the poly in the plastic tube. I tried to put a thin syringe into the depression that looks like a pinhole but the tip of the syringe wouldn't go through.
    Looks like using the battery end might be the most practical way of topping off if desired.

    Huh. If you pull it apart entirely, fill it with fluid. Mine leaked out. Possible *I* caused it, but that cart's kinda tough...will check on another once I get them. You *do* see the pinhole at least though :) Thank you for looking at it!
     

    dougp925

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    Wegster,
    Im can't tell for sure from the pic you posted, but it looks like the "Hair" going into the atomizer is black. Is that just from the fluid you used or is it burning the "Hair" closest to the atomizer? Otherwise, the greencarts look really good. I like that they actually use an atomizer instead of some weak little coil. 10 for $29 though? That could be rough if you go through 2 a day! Almost back to the cost of smoking analogs! (Also factor in hardware costs(Batts...etc))

    Side note: Does anyone know if the batteries in the G220 are the same or Better/Worse than the G300. It looks like the only difference is that the G300 comes with a protable charging/storage unit. Is this correct?
     

    Danny H

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    Well i dont care right now because i just received Drews order.. lol Thank you sir!

    Analogs go back in the draw, TFG. lol

    I love the eyedroppers, easy.. I ll update the review. thanks..

    I'm going to take a 5 pack with me to work and put in 5 flavors, then thoughout the night I'll rotate them for flavor.

    Something tells me that when you mess with the inner ring, the clear one, it is actually held down with a wire that is bent into it so Im going to try several ways to fill these before they have a chance to dry out.

    Drying out the wick is definitely the problem.

    But its so hard not to puff on this thing, lol
     

    wegster

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    Wegster,
    Im can't tell for sure from the pic you posted, but it looks like the "Hair" going into the atomizer is black. Is that just from the fluid you used or is it burning the "Hair" closest to the atomizer? Otherwise, the greencarts look really good. I like that they actually use an atomizer instead of some weak little coil. 10 for $29 though? That could be rough if you go through 2 a day! Almost back to the cost of smoking analogs! (Also factor in hardware costs(Batts...etc))

    Side note: Does anyone know if the batteries in the G220 are the same or Better/Worse than the G300. It looks like the only difference is that the G300 comes with a protable charging/storage unit. Is this correct?

    The G220 and G300 batteries are interchangeable, however they are different lengths. I posted what they were in the 'Nhaler thread' in here..(sorry, quick post right now). The G300/batts are the only option for the PCC though, and I'm a sucker for them. Want me to try something? Make a decent product with a non sucky PCC, preferably holding two carts, an *assembled* e-cig, plus spare charging battery. And don't be hype galore (Red Dragon, Blu, etc, IMHO).

    I'm looking at the atty now. While I did burn a few strands intentionally, what you see as black in the pic I suspect is actually the atty coil. I don't know if it's nickel clean originally or not, but I *was* dripping some pretty dark (choc mint) into it.

    And yeah, pricing seems rough/high on carts. I'll see what I can get out of them with refills, now that I know what it looks like inside, when my carts show up. If I can manage 2 days with refills on one cart (or cycling through a pair of carts for 4 days), it becomes more reasonable. Just have to see..

    (Postman just pulled in, I was wondering if somehow it got overnighted..JC sampler finally made it, like 3 weeks later, but here nonetheless).
     

    wegster

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    Well i dont care right now because i just received Drews order.. lol Thank you sir!

    Analogs go back in the draw, TFG. lol

    I love the eyedroppers, easy.. I ll update the review. thanks..

    I'm going to take a 5 pack with me to work and put in 5 flavors, then thoughout the night I'll rotate them for flavor.

    Something tells me that when you mess with the inner ring, the clear one, it is actually held down with a wire that is bent into it so Im going to try several ways to fill these before they have a chance to dry out.

    Drying out the wick is definitely the problem.

    But its so hard not to puff on this thing, lol

    Danny, can you please at least be clear in this thread which model you're discussing? I think it's KR808D-1 carts, but...clarity is good. :)

    The silicone inner ring is not attached to the wire. The wire is a simple loop, from battery anode contact on the cart, down to baby coil wrapped with the 'mystery cloth (which Nem did say he was told is sponge..?)', through the insulating braid (or perhaps more wicking?), then around the 'outside' of the braided tube, back to the cathode contact.

    Check a few carts, just pop out thee end mouthpiece, you'll see the silicone inner ring is in semi-random/different depths/locations within the KR carts.
     

    Peaches

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    You *do* see the pinhole at least though :) Thank you for looking at it!
    LOL wegster :), I do see a tiny outline of what might have been a pinhole but there wasn't any opening at all. It would have been nice to have a pinhole there for refills but I was afraid of breaking my syringe needle since it wouldn't go through the plastic.
    Peaches
     

    Danny H

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    Danny, can you please at least be clear in this thread which model you're discussing? I think it's KR808D-1 carts, but...clarity is good. :)

    The silicone inner ring is not attached to the wire. The wire is a simple loop, from battery anode contact on the cart, down to baby coil wrapped with the 'mystery cloth (which Nem did say he was told is sponge..?)', through the insulating braid (or perhaps more wicking?), then around the 'outside' of the braided tube, back to the cathode contact.

    Check a few carts, just pop out thee end mouthpiece, you'll see the silicone inner ring is in semi-random/different depths/locations within the KR carts.
    I thought this was a KR808 thread. Anyway my new ones are working great. My wife is having a hard time but her batteries are low. You have to have the batteries fully charged also.
     

    wegster

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    LOL wegster :), I do see a tiny outline of what might have been a pinhole but there wasn't any opening at all. It would have been nice to have a pinhole there for refills but I was afraid of breaking my syringe needle since it wouldn't go through the plastic.
    Peaches

    Exactly, so how the heck did *I* get one? 8-o
    :lol:

    Ahh well, almost the weekend, maybe I get to rip a new one apart more carefully soon :)
     
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