***California Assembly bill to BAN SHIPMENT OF E CIGARETTES TO ANYONE IN CALIFORNIA***

[MetalMaster75]

zoiDman: I completely agree on the age verification. The very few legit out-of-state businesses that ship tobacco products to California, have a proper age verification system in place. When they were forced to charge excise taxes, some did and kept doing business with Californians, some pulled the plug. However, and as you've mentioned: it is taxes they are after (in this instance)! Here lays the problem. E-cigarettes are NOT tobacco. Reasoning with the corrupted state assembly is a whole different animal.

 

[zoiDman]

zoiDman: I completely agree on the age verification. The very few legit out-of-state businesses that ship tobacco products to California, have a proper age verification system in place. When they were forced to charge excise taxes, some did and kept doing business with Californians, some pulled the plug. However, and as you've mentioned: it is taxes they are after (in this instance)! Here lays the problem. E-cigarettes are NOT tobacco. Reasoning with the corrupted state assembly is a whole different animal.

I think about 95% of All Vaper's don't want to see Under Aged Kids having Easy Access to e-Cigarettes. And that goes for Non-Vapers also.

But AB 1500 is Clearly the Wrong Approach. So I say Give Everybody what they want. A Viable way to Restrict Under Aged Sales while Allowing Adults to Purchase them.

It Takes the Wind out the "Save the Children" argument if Law Makers are Presented a Viable Approach.

As for e-Cigarettes (Hardware) Not being Tobacco. This is True. As to e-Liquids not being a Tobacco Product. That is Still True.

But we are Kinda Living on Barrowed Time. Because the FDA was supposed to Finalize things at the End of the Year. But they Did. And when they Get Around to it, e-Liquids ARE going to be "deemed" a Tobacco Product.

And Pardon my Language, All Hell Is Going to Break Lose.

 

[hippiebrian]

I am glad this is frozen at least for now. Seriously, this appears to be about tax income for the state and nothing else. It is designed to make up for the taxes we are not paying in analogs.

I don't think it's going away. They will impose a tax to whomever is the shipper which will be passed on to us Californians for online purchases (this cannot be reasonably stopped and they know it, so they will get some money from it) and I think companies would rather charge the tax than fund a fight with the state over anything.

I think, and this is just my personal opinion, that it is too late to ban personal vaporizer use in California or anywhere else. It has gotten too big. If they had tried as little as 5 years ago it may have succeeded, but now big tobacco has their fingers in it and our numbers are too big. What will unfortunatelly probably happen is only unflavored, tobacco flavored or menthol juices will be available (but with diy, we can flavor our own and no one will be able to stop it) and it will be taxed so high it will rival the cost of cancer sticks. I'll continue to do my part to stop that, but it may be a wasted effort in the long run. I will, however, continue to vape. Period. I am one of those who will, no matter how hard I try and have tried, continue to use nicotine to the end. And with vapor, the end will be further away.

I hope I'm wrong about the taxes and flavors, and, like I said, will continue to fight and to educate when I can.

 

[NatureBoy]

no flavours?? but but but but but...............

 

[Sikko]

The thing about tobacco "flavor" is there could still be a ton of flavors, since its so subjective, that taste nothing like tobacco. And if flavored is allowed, you could add whatever you wish. It would make flavors much less convenient.

 

[zoiDman]

Why can't we get 2,000 more signatures on this Petition?

There are More than 2,000 Online Retailers who sell Tobacco and e-Cigarette Products in California. Let alone the Users of these Products.

https://www.change.org/petitions/california-assembly-member-roger-dickinson-exclude-e-cigarettes-from-proposed-bill-ab-1500-which-would-ban-online-sales-of-e-cigarettes-in-california

 

[xanderxman]

Signed. I had no idea about this petition. It is amazing how many users on this site scream about bans and legislation but they will not simply take the time to act, much less the retailers this will affect most. Do something now, before it is too late. And please, join CASAA. Every member counts.

 

[zoiDman]

... It is amazing how many users on this site scream about bans and legislation but they will not simply take the time to act, much less the retailers this will affect most. ...

I think what Gets me Sometimes is when I see a 500 Post Thread that has 4,000 views about How Good or How Bad a Provari vs. a ___________ is and think...

If Everyone who Posted here would Write One Letter to their Rep than Maybe we could get Something Done.

That, and it Seems like Threads get More Posts After a Tax or a Ban has been Imposed than Before it has.

Shouldn't it be the Other Way Around?

 

[MetalMaster75]

I think what Gets me Sometimes is when I see a 500 Post Thread that has 4,000 views about How Good or How Bad a Provari vs. a ___________ is and think...

If Everyone who Posted here would Write One Letter to their Rep than Maybe we could get Something Done.

That, and it Seems like Threads get More Posts After a Tax or a Ban has been Imposed than Before it has.

Shouldn't it be the Other Way Around?

Unfortunately you are 100% right. Take the LA ban thread for example: before the city council voted on the ordinance it was only viewed less then 300 times!!! Despite the fact that some of us posted there important and informative stuff. Contacting the legislators IS the most important step. Opinions shall be voiced. Its our right. As far as retailers, well... most don't see past the cash register.

 

[Katya]

Why can't we get 2,000 more signatures on this Petition?

There are More than 2,000 Online Retailers who sell Tobacco and e-Cigarette Products in California. Let alone the Users of these Products.

https://www.change.org/petitions/california-assembly-member-roger-dickinson-exclude-e-cigarettes-from-proposed-bill-ab-1500-which-would-ban-online-sales-of-e-cigarettes-in-california

2,995 as of now!

 

[zoiDman]

Unfortunately you are 100% right. Take the LA ban thread for example: before the city council voted on the ordinance it was only viewed less then 300 times!!! Despite the fact that some of us posted there important and informative stuff. Contacting the legislators IS the most important step. Opinions shall be voiced. Its our right. As far as retailers, well... most don't see past the cash register.

I hear you MetalMaster75.

The ECF is Full of Threads where people stand in line to get up on a Soap Box crying about "This is an Outrage. My Rights are being Taken Away!". But how Many of these Vocal Advocates will spend a 1/100th of their Time they spend on Posting Hype to write a City, State or Federal Rep?

This is a Good Example...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ren-klaus-do-you-not-care-about-children.html

Post after post Whining about how Bad things are Getting. But Only a Few who suggest Getting Active and Doing Something about it.

Was it Martin Luther King Jr. or was it Malcolm X who said, "If your Not Part of the Solution, then you are Part of the Problem."

 

[SMP1121]

#2996

Is there a way to drive more traffic to this thread? I know that I only read the first page and the last page.

Sadly, I rarely visit this section of the forums....

 

[Endor]

I hear you MetalMaster75.

The ECF is Full of Threads where people stand in line to get up on a Soap Box crying about "This is an Outrage. My Rights are being Taken Away!". But how Many of these Vocal Advocates will spend a 1/100th of their Time they spend on Posting Hype to write a City, State or Federal Rep?

I have with SB648 (both my state senator and assemblyman) and have every intention of doing it again if AB1500 sees the light of day. I didn't with the LA City ban, because I don't live within the city limits (thank God).

I think the reason you see so much venting is not that people aren't willing to contact their representatives... I see plenty of people who do both. Instead, they are frustrated that their government representatives just don't care about their opinion, or reality.

Look at the LA city ban again... does anybody truly believe that we had a snowball's chance in hell of swaying that vote? Based on the rhetoric coming out of the folks sitting on the council for weeks prior, it was clear to me that they had ALREADY made up their minds on the matter. You could have lined up 1,000 vapers at the council meeting and it wouldn't have changed a damn thing.

This is why people are frustrated. Well, let's get frustrated. Let's get more people get frustrated, on this and other nanny-state issues. Then let's go VOTE frustrated. That's what needs to happen in this state to affect any change, really.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I think the reason you see so much venting is not that people aren't willing to contact their representatives... I see plenty of people who do both. Instead, they are frustrated that their government representatives just don't care about their opinion, or reality.

...

I get Frustrated Also.

I get Frustrated by Lack of Involvement by Individuals. By Unwillingness to Compromise. And by the Retailers and OEM's who I don Not Feel are Doing as much as they Could.

I know that there are Many People writing Letters, sending e-Mails and Working with Policy Makers. It is what Keeps me going and Doing what I can.

 

[zoiDman]

#2996

Is there a way to drive more traffic to this thread? I know that I only read the first page and the last page.

Sadly, I rarely visit this section of the forums....

You can Link to it in Other Threads where Appropriate.

Also, every time someone post in this Thread, it moves to the Top of the "New Posts" search.

 

[sonicdsl]

#2996

Is there a way to drive more traffic to this thread? I know that I only read the first page and the last page.

Sadly, I rarely visit this section of the forums....

You can Link to it in Other Threads where Appropriate.

Also, every time someone post in this Thread, it moves to the Top of the "New Posts" search.

You could add the sub-forum links to your signature too, as I have done in mine.

 

[Endor]

I get Frustrated Also.

I get Frustrated by Lack of Involvement by Individuals. By Unwillingness to Compromise. And by the Retailers and OEM's who I don Not Feel are Doing as much as they Could.

I know that there are Many People writing Letters, sending e-Mails and Working with Policy Makers. It is what Keeps me going and Doing what I can.

I agree with you on all accounts... the likes of Bill Godshall and Berlyanna keep me going as well.

But I especially agree with you regarding the retailers. This is their business and livelihoods, they should be front-and-center discussing the economic impacts of these policies and the harm they are doing to a fast-growing industry.

I know some vendors do, but probably not nearly enough. There are probably 15 B&M vapor shops that have sprouted up near me. I visited a few of them recently and asked them what they thought about these new bills... most didn't know anything about them.

That being said, I still contend that AB1500 would be the best thing to happen to local B&M shops. Sure, they'd have to get a tobacco license. But, you'd have a line out of the door of folks getting 10ml bottles of eliquid for $20 (plus sales tax!) all day long.... they'd be the only way to get it if this passed. This means we probably can't count on them to rally against this specific bill too much, as I don't think most of them do a whole lot of mail-order business.

 

[zoiDman]

You could add the sub-forum links to your signature too, as I have done in mine.

That's a Very Good Call Sonic.

I forget about Signatures. Because the First thing I do when I join a Forum is Turn Them Off.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree with you on all accounts... the likes of Bill Godshall and Berlyanna keep me going as well.

...

It doesn't even need to be a Heavy Hitter like Bill or Berlyanna. Every Time I see some Newbie (or Not so Newbie) say that they just e-Mailed their Rep or joined CASAA, it lifts my hopes.

---

BTW - For those B&M's. Getting a Local Business License and a State Permit to sell Tobacco Products Isn't exactly a Walk in the Park. Or a Mere Filing Fee. At least not in California.

I sure hope those B&M can Continue to do what they are Currently doing. Because if they Can't, there are going to SOL is AB-1500 passes.

 

[Robino1]

3,000 now