***California Assembly bill to BAN SHIPMENT OF E CIGARETTES TO ANYONE IN CALIFORNIA***

[SMP1121]

That being said, I still contend that AB1500 would be the best thing to happen to local B&M shops. Sure, they'd have to get a tobacco license. But, you'd have a line out of the door of folks getting 10ml bottles of eliquid for $20 (plus sales tax!) all day long.... they'd be the only way to get it if this passed. This means we probably can't count on them to rally against this specific bill too much, as I don't think most of them do a whole lot of mail-order business.

My fear is that this will be the beginning of the end for them. Denying new applications, pricing licenses out of reach or "there are no licenses available at this time" are all scenarios I see for these relatively new businesses as a way to get rid of them...period. Unless they grandfather existing businesses in since it wasn't a requirement when they started. But I doubt that would happen.

I love the "vape only" shops that have opened here in SF! And I love Velvet Cloud Vapor that produces e liquid here in SF (online only). But I could see all of them closing if they were forced to get a tobacco license (VCV has said as much). I don't want to frequent the current tobacco shops/head shops/porn stores to get some juice or touch the latest in mods and tanks...let alone sample any juices in most of those places (I am sure there are some that are very nice and clean...but currently they don't carry anything other than disposables for the most part). Carrying the brands, flavors and strengths people want is another tricky thing for a shop owner who isn't that invested in ecigs. DIY may become more common...

 

[DC2]

This is why people are frustrated. Well, let's get frustrated. Let's get more people get frustrated, on this and other nanny-state issues. Then let's go VOTE frustrated. That's what needs to happen in this state to affect any change, really.

Frustrated?

I am so frustrated that my brain exploded 56 weeks ago.
Yes, that's right, my brain exploded.

I am so frustrated that I started eating cauliflower.
Yeah, cauliflower.

I don't even know why.

I've been at this for over four years.
My hemorrhoids aren't even that old yet.

The efforts to get vapers more involved has thrown out my back.
I can't even bodysurf anymore because my feet have swollen up and my fins no longer fit me.

And this whole time, all I have wanted is for people to give a damn and do something.
Maybe that day will come, when the .... hits the fan.

And hit the fan it will, I think.
Or at least it seems more and more like it will.

I really miss bodysurfing.

 

[Katya]

((((DC2))))

I feel your pain.

But I like cauliflower.

 

[zoiDman]

Frustrated?

...

I am so frustrated that I started eating cauliflower.
Yeah, cauliflower.

...

Man... That is Frustrated.

 

[DC2]

But I like cauliflower.

Well, I guess someone has to.

 

[MetalMaster75]

About these vendors getting tobacco licenses if this nonsense bill goes anywhere.
The state will issue them in no time. Remember they are collecting not only sales taxes, but also the excise tax currently at 29.82%!!! And that is the whole idea behind this bill. I might be wrong...

 

[salemgold]

You can Link to it in Other Threads where Appropriate.

Also, every time someone post in this Thread, it moves to the Top of the "New Posts" search.

That's a good enough reason for me To the top!

 

[zoiDman]

About these vendors getting tobacco licenses if this nonsense bill goes anywhere.
The state will issue them in no time. Remember they are collecting not only sales taxes, but also the excise tax currently at 29.82%!!! And that is the whole idea behind this bill. I might be wrong...

I would be More Worried about getting a City Business License to sell Tobacco Products than I would be about a State Permit.

But Yes.. It is About Money. No Arguments Here.

 

[MetalMaster75]

I would be More Worried about getting a City Business License to sell Tobacco Products than I would be about a State Permit.

But Yes.. It is About Money. No Arguments Here.

In Los Angeles is relatively easy to get a business license. In the case of tobacco the city clerk will ask you to present the state tobacco license first. However, you are right, in other smaller municipalities it can be difficult. Where I live (part of Los Angeles) I've seen at least 10 new tobacco retailers open in the last couple of years, within a one mile radius.

 

[zoiDman]

In Los Angeles is relatively easy to get a business license. In the case of tobacco the city clerk will ask you to present the state tobacco license first. However, you are right, in other smaller municipalities it can be difficult. Where I live (part of Los Angeles) I've seen at least 10 new tobacco retailers open in the last couple of years, within a one mile radius.

What I was Hoping was that by this time, the FDA would have deemed e-Liquids as a Tobacco Product. But would have set up a Separate Category for them so that they where Not Treated as Any Other Tobacco Product.

I think in some ways, Cites, Counties and States are Adrift without some kind of Word from the FDA.

BTW - When was the Last Time Anyone Posted about the FDA?

 

[salemgold]

They were classified as unregulated tobacco product back in 2011 by federal ruling.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-njoy-vs-fda-discussion-211.html#post3086105

the US Supreme Court means that e-cigarettes, e-liquid, nicotine gums, lozenges, patches, skin creams and nasal sprays are now unregulate tobacco products according to federal law (as long as no therapeutic claim is made by the manufacturer/importer).

 

[sonicdsl]

Actually, it was classified as not a pharmaceutical product. Judge Leon said the FDA could deem it a tobacco product. That hasn't been done yet, and what we keep waiting for.

 

[SMP1121]

In Los Angeles is relatively easy to get a business license. In the case of tobacco the city clerk will ask you to present the state tobacco license first. However, you are right, in other smaller municipalities it can be difficult. Where I live (part of Los Angeles) I've seen at least 10 new tobacco retailers open in the last couple of years, within a one mile radius.

It depends...yes, the money is a motivator but they are basing their tax projections on existing businesses with a tobacco license, not necessarily projecting how many more they will allow to open.

Besides, once they realize how many more they will be issuing, then the morality of this political agenda will become clear to them. And that will be that they cannot allow a "tobacco" shop to open on every corner. They are trying to regulate and demonize tobacco/nicotine use in every form.

They can also put a "waiting period" or # limit on how many are available. Which would leave the current licensed business in tact and therefore, their tax revenue, but squash any new business until one closes making a license available.

Yes, they want the tax money, but they do not want to look as though they will promote and encourage this kind of business.

 

[zoiDman]

They were classified as unregulated tobacco product back in 2011 by federal ruling.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-njoy-vs-fda-discussion-211.html#post3086105

the US Supreme Court means that e-cigarettes, e-liquid, nicotine gums, lozenges, patches, skin creams and nasal sprays are now unregulate tobacco products according to federal law (as long as no therapeutic claim is made by the manufacturer/importer).

Actually, it was classified as not a pharmaceutical product. Judge Leon said the FDA could deem it a tobacco product. That hasn't been done yet, and what we keep waiting for.

I believe what Judge Leon was telling the FDA was that they DID have the Power to Regulate e-Liquids as a Tobacco Product. If and when they deemed them so.

The If was never in Question. It was the When. That is what we are All waiting for.

And when Mitch Zeller was appointed to the Director of Center for Tobacco Products, it was the Hope of many of us that e-Liquids would be Regulated as a New and Unique Product.

And that e-Cigarettes and e-Liquids could be afforded some special Consideration as a HRT. And a Viable Alternative to Traditional Tobacco use.

 

[zoiDman]

...

They can also put a "waiting period" or # limit on how many are available. Which would leave the current licensed business in tact and therefore, their tax revenue, but squash any new business until one closes making a license available.

...

They could Also Deny a Current Licensed Business Owner the Ability to Sell Tobacco Products at the Current Location that they have there B&M.

I know 2 B&M Owners who are selling e-Liquids (as well as Hardware) in their B&M who do Not have the ability to sell Tobacco Products on their Business License.

Currently, they do Not Need any Special Licensing from either the City or the State to Do So. But they are worried that they Might be Denied by either the City or the State when the FDA does deem e-Liquids to be a Tobacco Product.

And they are Also Unsure just what Manufacturing, Packaging, Procedural and Taxation Requirements will be Required to sell an e-Liquids. And how these Regulations will effect where they get their Nicotine Base from. And at What Price.

 

[SMP1121]

They could Also Deny a Current Licensed Business Owner the Ability to Sell Tobacco Products at the Current Location that they have there B&M.

I know 2 B&M Owners who are selling e-Liquids (as well as Hardware) in their B&M who do Not have the ability to sell Tobacco Products on their Business License.

Currently, they do Not Need any Special Licensing from either the City or the State to Do So. But they are worried that they Might be Denied by either the City or the State when the FDA does deem e-Liquids to be a Tobacco Product.

And they are Also Unsure just what Manufacturing, Packaging, Procedural and Taxation Requirements will be Required to sell an e-Liquids. And how these Regulations will effect where they get their Nicotine Base from. And at What Price.

Yes, that was exactly my original point with my earlier post.

I should have said in my most recent post: "Which would leave the current tobacco licensed business in tact..."

Thank you for being much more specific.

This bill will generate much more tax money from current, regular tobacco sales businesses (who may also sell ecig merchandise) while at the same time killing "vape only" business (current and future)...

 

[Tom Servo]

doesn't this interfere with inter-state commerce?
can not we just ban the internet sales of any thing coming out of california?
i could see this on the federal level but,i don't quite see how this could
work on the state level.

I'd think so. I'm not sure if California has the authority to do this.

In practical terms, this will just cause people to drive over the border to Oregon or Washington, pick up what they need, and bring it back. Expect to see a significant black market develop.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - I wonder if anyone is Going to Blink if I put done that I want to Store 10,000,000 mg of Nicotine in a C1 Zoned Strip Mall Space?

Wonder if there are going to be any HAZ-MAT Hoops to jump thru over Something Like That? LOL

 

[MetalMaster75]

I'd think so. I'm not sure if California has the authority to do this.

In practical terms, this will just cause people to drive over the border to Oregon or Washington, pick up what they need, and bring it back. Expect to see a significant black market develop.

What the state is trying to do is have e-cigarette consumers (vapers) purchase from B&Ms. This way the purchaser can be carded. Remember it is about the children. The B&Ms and wholesale/distributors will still be able to "import" from out-of-state, as long as no direct sales take place. And to make things even worst, the state will impose all the tobacco applicable taxes on the purchases, on top of the sales taxes.

As far as driving to Oregon or Washington, that is a highly unfeasible plan considering the cost and the possibility of criminal liability.

 

[MetalMaster75]

Yes, that was exactly my original point with my earlier post.

I should have said in my most recent post: "Which would leave the current tobacco licensed business in tact..."

Thank you for being much more specific.

This bill will generate much more tax money from current, regular tobacco sales businesses (who may also sell ecig merchandise) while at the same time killing "vape only" business (current and future)...

Most of the existing B&Ms adopted this kind of "hybrid" business, selling not only tobacco, but also e-cigarette merchandise and other paraphernalia (forbidden in conversation here). Also, let's NOT forget the thousands of liqueur stores that are also licensed to sell tobacco. I'm sure they are not very worry about "killing" a few vape only shops.