Can anyone help with this deck build pls!

[VapourFlavour]

Hey there, as someone who is still fairly new to vaping I've really enjoyed my experience on this forum with all of the helpful and knowledgeable people who are willing to share their expertise. I'm hoping the "newbie" questions from me will end soon, but I'm struggling with a new problem.

I've only used Kanthal AI clapton wire 28ga + 36ga, for my single coil builds and I've always been happy with my results. Being a single coil deck at 5 wraps it's a fairly small coil and comes in at .5 - .6 ohms. My go to vape shop was out of my regular wire today and I picked up some SS fused clapton wire at 24ga + 32ga. I made a coil at 4 wraps, it's twice the size of what I'm used to using due to the thickness, but that's fine because I have room on my deck. The build came out to .15 ohms, the problem started when I started to try to heat the coil to get it heating from the inside out. As I pulsed, the coil never turned red - I should point out that I stopped pulsing after about 4 or 5 fires at 35 watts because I noticed my amps jumping really high. I put the wattage up to 60, tried a few more fires and still no color in the coil. The reason I stopped trying to get the coil to heat is that I've always been used to my amps sitting around 5 when I fire, seeing them jump up to 18 - 20 had me concerned. Now I'm out of my Kanthal smaller wire and am too worried about safety with this new coil to use it. I took the coil out and reinstalled with the same results. Does SS need to be preburnt? Am I missing something and am I right that the Amps were too high? Thank you in advance to anyone who can help!

 

[untar]

First of all, the amps your mod shows you are the amps going through the atomizer, not the amps drawn from the batteries. In a regulated mod, to calculate maximum battery amp draw for a power setting you use

(power)/(number_of_batteries*cutoff_voltage*0.9) = amps drawn from battery

eg
60W/(2*3.2V*0.9) = 10.42A
for a 2 battery mod that tells you the batteries are empty at 3.2V battery voltage.

To tell you what the maximum power is you can fire we'd need to know
-what batteries you use (model and manufacturer)
-what mod you use

Next, the wire you have now is rather massive and as such power hungry, so a high power to fire it is expected.
Especially in dual coil configuration.
With high drain batteries you should be able to vape on it. Maybe not for very long before you need to charge your batteries again.

 

[VapourFlavour]

 

[VapourFlavour]

First of all, the amps your mod shows you are the amps going through the atomizer, not the amps drawn from the batteries. In a regulated mod, to calculate maximum battery amp draw for a power setting you use

(power)/(number_of_batteries*cutoff_voltage*0.9) = amps drawn from battery

eg
60W/(2*3.2V*0.9) = 10.42A
for a 2 battery mod that tells you the batteries are empty at 3.2V battery voltage.

To tell you what the maximum power is you can fire we'd need to know
-what batteries you use (model and manufacturer)
-what mod you use

Next, the wire you have now is rather massive and as such power hungry, so a high power to fire it is expected.
Especially in dual coil configuration.
With high drain batteries you should be able to vape on it. Maybe not for very long before you need to charge your batteries again.

Thank you for the info!

Sony VTC6's in an Aegis Legend 200W.

Juggerknot Mini RTA, single coil

So the amps showing on the mod shouldn't be of a big concern?

 

[uthinkofsomething]

When I looked into SS coils in the past the info I came up with was that after you install, when you glow the coils only use enough wattage to just barely start to glow them, for dual coils I used a max of 25 watts. This was recommended by a company that deals only with SS wire. Strumming after heating as they cool does wonders.
Kinda sounds like something isn't connecting right, but I'm sure you've checked your screws, with clapton wire watch out for a small length of the finer wrapping wire unwinding from where it is cut, hanging out somewhere causing a short.
If you are confident that your build is correct then add a few more watts, but again, SS should not have a hard glow.
Please correct me if Im wrong anyone with more experience with SS.

 

[untar]

So the amps showing on the mod shouldn't be of a big concern?

Nope, they're basically a fancy ornament.

Sony VTC6

As per our tester those are 15A batteries, so on the lower end of power (as vaping with massive coils goes)
Mooch's Recommended Batteries | E-Cigarette Forum

You can reverse the above formula to calculate the max power you can set on your device
15A*(2*3.2V*0.9) = 86.4W

That's your max setting with the VTC6, so you still have a bit of room to play above 60W to get your coil to do something. As I'm not using such massive builds I can't tell you what to aim for but steam engine
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
suggests 51W...
The heat capacity is atrocious (the big red bar on the right) so it's no wonder it takes forever to heat up.
You may need more than steam engine suggests, it's just a starting point for experiments.

Kinda sounds like something isn't connecting right

Yeah if absolutely nothing happens then that's certainly a possibility.
I wouldn't think it's a short though, the aegis would just stop firing and throw an error message.

 

[Baditude]

I agree with @untar. Amps displayed on a regulated mod are pretty useless, just ignore them. That value is not the amps being drawn from the battery, but the amps being pushed by the circuit board...two different values.

We use Ohms Law for mechanical mods, and Watts Law for regulated mods. Coil resistance is essentially irrelevant, what is relevant is the maximum wattage setting used and the amp rating of the battery (batteries) used.

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

 

[VapourFlavour]

Nope, they're basically a fancy ornament.

As per our tester those are 15A batteries, so on the lower end of power (as vaping with massive coils goes)
Mooch's Recommended Batteries | E-Cigarette Forum

You can reverse the above formula to calculate the max power you can set on your device
15A*(2*3.2V*0.9) = 86.4W

That's your max setting with the VTC6, so you still have a bit of room to play above 60W to get your coil to do something. As I'm not using such massive builds I can't tell you what to aim for but steam engine
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
suggests 51W...
The heat capacity is atrocious (the big red bar on the right) so it's no wonder it takes forever to heat up.
You may need more than steam engine suggests, it's just a starting point for experiments.

Yeah if absolutely nothing happens then that's certainly a possibility.
I wouldn't think it's a short though, the aegis would just stop firing and throw an error message.

I am confident in the build as I'm overly OCD about checking and double checking everything and I could start to smell them getting warm, they just never showed any color at all. Now that I know the amps on the mod are not what I thought they were I'll give it another go. I really appreciate the info!

 

[VapourFlavour]

I agree with @untar. Amps displayed on a regulated mod are pretty useless, just ignore them. That value is not the amps being drawn from the battery, but the amps being pushed by the circuit board...two different values.

We use Ohms Law for mechanical mods, and Watts Law for regulated mods. Coil resistance is essentially irrelevant, what is relevant is the maximum wattage setting used and the amp rating of the battery (batteries) used.
You people on here are fantastic! That was the best battery education I've had so far. Thank you!

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

 

[VapourFlavour]

Now I know what batteries to buy. I wish my vape shop would've shown me what you just did. Thank you

 

[untar]

I wish my vape shop would've shown me what you just did

That and maybe the manufacturers could put something useful into the box the mod comes in. A battery warning is great but it doesn't really help with buying batteries, they could be a little more informative.
You found your way here but I got a feeling for everybody ending up here there's at least 10 people who aren't and stay in the dark.

 

[Baditude]

Now I know what batteries to buy. I wish my vape shop would've shown me what you just did. Thank you

That chart is just an expanded version of the one Battery Mooch used in this video.

 

[VapourFlavour]

When I looked into SS coils in the past the info I came up with was that after you install, when you glow the coils only use enough wattage to just barely start to glow them, for dual coils I used a max of 25 watts. This was recommended by a company that deals only with SS wire. Strumming after heating as they cool does wonders.
Kinda sounds like something isn't connecting right, but I'm sure you've checked your screws, with clapton wire watch out for a small length of the finer wrapping wire unwinding from where it is cut, hanging out somewhere causing a short.
If you are confident that your build is correct then add a few more watts, but again, SS should not have a hard glow.
Please correct me if Im wrong anyone with more experience with SS.

Will try it. Much appreciated!

 

[VapourFlavour]

That chart is just an expanded version of the one Battery Mooch used in this video.

You should change your username to "vape encyclopedia". I can't thank you enough.

 

[VapourFlavour]

That and maybe the manufacturers could put something useful into the box the mod comes in. A battery warning is great but it doesn't really help with buying batteries, they could be a little more informative.
You found your way here but I got a feeling for everybody ending up here there's at least 10 people who aren't and stay in the dark.

I agree, I found my way here because I was seeking knowledge from more experienced vapers. Some people won't bother or simply won't find ECF. That could be dangerous, when companies could do more on their packaging.

 

[Baditude]

That and maybe the manufacturers could put something useful into the box the mod comes in. A battery warning is great but it doesn't really help with buying batteries, they could be a little more informative.
You found your way here but I got a feeling for everybody ending up here there's at least 10 people who aren't and stay in the dark.

I have a suspicion that whoever writes the manufacturer's owners manual or battery recommendations don't really understand batteries or know what's on the market. Numerous times I've seen them recommend "at least a 35 amp 18650 battery", when we all know no such thing exists.

 

[VapourFlavour]

I have a suspicion that whoever writes the manufacturer's owners manual or battery recommendations don't really understand batteries or know what's on the market. Numerous times I've seen them recommend a 35 amp 18650 battery, when we all know no such thing exists.

It's irresponsible, in my opinion, in a time when you don't want to give the vape police any more ammunition to call our industry "unsafe"

 

[Baditude]

It's irresponsible, in my opinion, in a time when you don't want to give the vape police any more ammunition to call our industry "unsafe"

I think it is irresponsible for mech mod manufacturers to make metal tube mods with no or inadequate ventilation holes should a battery venting incident occur. That is a pipe bomb just waiting to happen

 

[Letitia]

The batteries we use have literally been pirated. They were not manufactured to be used in our devices and we can't expect them to address info for our needs.

 

[Letitia]

24ga + 32ga

These are thick wires and will take a considerable ramp. The 24g isn't ideal for clapton wire imo. Spacing the wraps will help a bit. You might want to try tc or setting the device up for hard ramp.