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Can someone explain the relation of clouds/flavor/RDA/wattage?

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by Stanley1994, Jul 9, 2015.

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  1. Stanley1994

    Stanley1994 Full Member

    Jul 9, 2015
    Pretty new to vaping and I've got a few questions. I'm currently running a Tesla Two 100W box mod with an Atlantis tank and get decent clouds and flavor, just looking for bigger, thicker vapor production and a little more flavor. I know an RDA would be helpful to this but I was looking into getting a variable wattage box that pushes up to 40w with a little more features than mine and an RDA to go along with it, but I want to be able to tell a significant difference for my money.

    Does a higher watt mod directly mean that you'll get bigger clouds? Or will a lower wattage like 40w with the right RDA and build give you that much more flavor and clouds? Just trying to figure out all the ins and outs that go into getting good flavor and clouds. Also, what would be the best wattage to run and coil build to get the best mixture of flavor/big clouds?
     
  2. KM7276

    KM7276 New Member

    Jul 9, 2015
    Well I am no expert by any means but your wattage is only one equation in the flavor/clouds question. I usually run a 0.4 ohm dual coil build with .24 Kanthal on my Alien RDA. Using that build I usually run my setup with about 35W to 40 W and I get a fairly decent cloud base with a great flavor hit. It also depends on which type of juice you use.... the higher the VG in your juice the more cloud you can create. The cloud competitions from what I have seen in my area use either 100% VG or a 70VG/30PG mix at the last one I attended. It also depends on how long of a hit you take into your lungs to be able to exhale the large clouds.

    So to answer the question, higher wattage serves to run higher ohm builds... here is a link to the Ohms Law calculator

    Ohms Law Calculator

    That should help you solve some questions..... for bigger clouds use a higher VG juice!!
     
  3. ElevenEleven

    ElevenEleven Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 5, 2015
    Say you have an RDA built to around .3 ohms using 26g kanthal. You're applying 70 watts and you're using a juice that you like. It'll (usually) be a good vape, with warm and billow-y clouds. Now, take that same juice and drip it onto an RDA that's built around 1 ohm. You fire it ~30 watts. Something you may notice is that your cloud is just as billow-y (if not more so) and noticeably warmer. This is because your coil has more surface area. The biggest pro of higher ohms/lower watts is the conservation of battery life.

    There are variables here such as gauge of kanthal, PG/VG ratio of juice, and the RDA being used. Higher gauges of kanthal heat up quicker than others. PG gives better flavor and VG will give you better vapor density. There are RDA's made specifically for flavor or for clouds.
     
  4. 93gc40

    93gc40 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 5, 2014
    California
    40 watt is NOT LOW wattage. It is HIGH wattage. 0-15 low wattage, 15-30 medium, 30-50 HIGH Wattage, 50 + watts is extreme.
     
  5. RipCigs

    RipCigs Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 17, 2015
    Croatia
    Pretty much this, i'd just add that resistance is pretty much meaningless on a regulated mod where 30w is always 30w, as opposed to a mech. On a regulated you pretty much need more power if you use thick wire.
    As for flavor/clouds, rda's for clouds are usually the ones with tons of airflow for direct lung inhales. Usually with larger chambers, this lessens the flavor. Flavor rda's don't have as much airflow in general and have small chambers, which gives more concentrated vapor.
    As for builds, all forms of twisteds and claptons tend to have better flavor as they sort of act like a wick. You get juice in the channels between the twists. Depending on how thick of a wire you are using and how many wraps, claptons might require more power.
    The flavor vs cloud thing is a whole science i'd say :D
     
  6. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    That's pretty subjective. You'll have to find your own answer. The basics are pretty simple, though. Aside from nicotine, e-juice is generally composed of PG, VG and flavorings. PG carries the flavor and provides throat hit. VG makes clouds (and is slightly sweet on its own.) The flavor molecules add the taste. Pure PG juice gives good flavor, but the cloud is thin and grey, and the throat hit is fearsome. Pure VG makes dense white vapor, but it doesn't carry flavor well, or wick well, because it's so viscous. The reason some DIY juices have to "steep" after mixing is because they are high VG. Thus, on the juice side, a combination of PG, VG and flavoring must be found to provide the users required amount of throat hit, flavor, ability to wick, and density of vapor. This ratio is interdependent with equipment considerations, about which more later.

    Watts, essentially, are a measure of what engineers call power and physicists call work. They are not strictly electrical in nature-- James Watt did steam engines, not generators-- but can be used to measure power in any form. Watts are identical to horespower, except smaller: 1 HP = 745.7 W. Therefore, whether vaping or cars or nuclear reactors, more watts = more power = more work done. All other things being equal, in vape gear more watts means more vapor produced per time period. Whether this is thin, grey, throat-hurting PG vapor or dense, white, make-me-cough VG vapor depends on juice. *How much* more vapor depends on the efficiency of the gear.

    So to gear. All attys have a vape chamber or barrel, the place where the coils and wicks live and where vapor is produced. A tank has this chamber topped by a chimney and surrounded by a tank containing e-juice. A dripper is essentially nothing more than the chamber, with no chimney or tank. Drippers are inherently more efficient than tanks. Partly so because of the lack of a chimney (where vapor is flow restricted, and cools and condenses) and partly because they are bigger. Aside from this more vapor is made by increasing the coil surface area-- vapor is only made at the coil surface, and then only where the surface is wet-- and increasing air flow to carry away already produced vapor, thus clearing the surface of the coil for more work. Drippers are more efficient because they hold more and bigger coils, and can supply greater air flow. Wick is also important, but does not make vapor itself. Rather it transports juice to the coil so it can, and it has to be able to provide enough for the coil to max out on vape.

    Finally-- why this takes trial and error-- is all these factors are interdependent. If you change one, you have to tweak them all to maximize system vapor throughput. Anyway, there's a rough overview, I hope it helps you understand. There is no "right answer" or cookbook solution.
     
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  7. DaveSignal

    DaveSignal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2014
    Maryland
    You can get more flavor and more clouds with more power... it all kind of depends on your build though. For RDAs with huge airflow, you need a lot of power to make the vape dense and flavorful. And you will also make huge clouds. RDAs with condensed chambers intrinsically have more flavor and are a warmer vape with the same power, many also have good airflow.

    I use mech mods. For me, I find that a very low resistance build gets me really great flavor on all of my RDAs. If I have something with greater airflow, I need to push it some more with my build and manipulate my wicking to take advantage of the design.
     
  8. DaveSignal

    DaveSignal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2014
    Maryland
    Get a Velocity RDA. And use it on your 100watt mod.
     
  9. Stanley1994

    Stanley1994 Full Member

    Jul 9, 2015
    So say I take an RDA with good airflow and build the coils for a good balance of vapor production and flavor. What would be the differences of putting the same RDA and build on a DNA 40 box mod I was considering buying (Lost Vape ESquare if any of you are familiar with it) vs putting it on the 100w box I have now. Would I notice differences in vapor production, taste, temperature of hit, etc?
     
  10. DaveSignal

    DaveSignal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2014
    Maryland
    You have more build options on the mod with more power. ie: you can build more complicated coils and open the airflow even wider and still have great flavor. With the 40 watt, you are limited to what you can do with 40 watts.... which is a lot, but you can certainly do more with more power.
     
  11. Stanley1994

    Stanley1994 Full Member

    Jul 9, 2015
    Okay guys I switched my Atlantis out for a Dark Horse RDA and got it built to .3 ohms with 6 wraps. It wasn't necessarily a bad vape but it was a little hot and gave up too much flavor for my taste. Would dropping down to 40 watts make a pretty good difference with this same coil build? If not what kind of build would you guys recommend for the 40 watt unregulated?
     
  12. DaveSignal

    DaveSignal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2014
    Maryland
    You could drop the power or just open the airflow more. The Dark Horse has huge airflow. Are you using the wide-bore cap? You are going to get more flavor with any RDA as compared to a tank-based atomizer.
     
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