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Can someone help with a Banana Cream Pie recipe?(kinda long)

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Andromendous, Apr 15, 2017.

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  1. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Hello all, I have been trying to make a good banana cream pie recipe for 2 years now. I have nearly every banana flavor, cream, and some pie flavors. Everything turns out as a dud. I've got atleast 6 recipes steeping right now. Every one tastes pretty much the same. They're all just kinda sweet or just banana. There not bad. Just not what I want.

    There is this shop that makes their own juice here. All of them are extremely good. Of course, the one I love the most, is their Banana cream pie. You really taste the pie and cream, its so fluffy and really gives that mouthful experience, then the banana, it is more of a candy like banana, but its so rich and delicious, I envy the one that has come up with these recipes. The color, of the BCP, is kind of a yellow-ish orange after it steeps for a while.

    I really thought it was FW yellow cake they were using to make the pie flavor. To me, it just tastes sweet. I dont even get a cake type flavor from it. I think the most I used was 5% and it just seemed to make the juice sweet is all.

    When I smelt Loranns Natural banana for the first time I thought to myself "THIS IS IT!!! WOOHOO!!!" I really thought it was the banana flavor they use. I tried it at 5% with LA Bavarian cream and yellow cake, All I tasted was sweetness. It even had an odd taste to it, like i was vaping plastic or something. I had this experience with totally different banana flavor and tank a long time ago, and I thought maybe I was burning the underside of the drip tip because it was delrin. I went on to try LAN banana at 3% and 10% and its as if I didn't put any in at all or get that plastic weird taste from it.

    Anyway, I feel like im at a dead end here, I've tried 5 or 6 different banana flavors, their all ok, but not like the one im looking for. Maybe they're using a flavor company that just isn't mainstream perhaps.
    Hope someone can help, thanks.

    Here is a list of all the flavors I've tried in different mixes.
    Banana Cream Colorless Flavor Concentrate by LA (0.27oz
    Banana Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz) 1
    Banana Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz) 1
    Banana LorAnns Natural Flavor Concentrate by LAN (0.27oz)
    Banana Flavor Concentrate by INA (0.27oz)
    Cream Fresh Flavor Concentrate by FA (0.27oz)
    Sweet Cream Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz)
    Whipped Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Yellow Cake Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz
    Yellow Cake Flavor Concentrate by CAP (0.27oz)
    Vanilla Custard* Flavor Concentrate by CAP (0.27oz)
    Sugar Cookie Flavor Concentrate by CAP (0.27oz) 1
    Cinnamon Sugar Cookie Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Peanut Butter Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Toasted Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate by FA (0.27oz)
    Biscuit Flavor Concentrate by INA (0.27oz)
    Caramel Candy Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Cake Batter Dip Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz)
    Cake Batter Flavor Concentrate by CAP (0.27oz)
    Hazelnut Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz)
    Double Chocolate Dark Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    INA-MILK-CHOC-8ML Milk Chocolate Flavor Concentrate by INA (0.27oz)
    TFA-SWEET-CRM-8ML Sweet Cream Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Frosted Donut Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
    Bavarian Cream Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz)
    Bavarian Cream Flavor Concentrate by LA (0.27oz)
    Graham Cracker Flavor Concentrate by FW (0.27oz)
    Pie Crust Flavor Concentrate by TFA (0.27oz)
     
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  2. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    I don't have an answer for you but wow, you're determined! I'm the same way with watermelon. Searching unsuccessfully high and low for the perfect flavor


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. glasseye

    glasseye Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2012
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    That sounds like TFA Ripe Banana. It's very strong and tastes like banana runts or banana laffy taffy by itself. If you use 1% to 2% along with TFA Banana Cream at 8% or so, you might get the banana you're looking for. Then maybe some whipped cream and some graham. I haven't used the FW you have, just tfa.
     
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  4. ceeceeisme

    ceeceeisme Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I make a Coconut Banana Cream Pie:

    Banana Cream (LA) 3.5%
    Biscuit (INAWERA) 2 %
    Coconut Candy (TPA) 2 %
    Meringue (FA) 2 %
    Sugar Cookie (CAP) 2 %
    Sweet Cream (CAP) 1 %
    Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (TPA) 2 %
    Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 2 %
    Vanilla Swirl (TPA) 4 %


    I happen to be vaping this in one my tanks now and it's pretty good. I think I got the original recipe from lediypourlesnuls.com but have altered it somewhat to my own taste.

    You could leave the coconut candy out (or not). I like it better with the coconut though. :)
     
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  5. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Thanks for all the reply's everyone. I've tried Ripe aswell, I think I used something like 3% and your right, it is STRONG!, I think I even used it in another mix at 1 or 2% and it still overpowered everything, I might give your suggestion a try though thanks for the help!
     
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  6. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Hm, I dont have a few of those flavors, CC, VBI, Meringue CAP SC, sounds like this would be more "Vanillay" to me. I've tried a recipe i found online that had FA banana and TFA French vanilla, it tasked like banana ice cream. Pretty good, but... not what Im looking for unfortunately. Thanks for the reply!
     
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  7. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Yes I am! I will not give up until I at least find something I really like, ever since I got into DIY I have only purchased a few bottles of juice, and I probably never will again. Theres really only been a handful of juices I've had that were just amazing to me, and those were the ones that got me into vaping. The amazing flavor is why I vape, so I need to figure something out.
     
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  8. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    I appreciate your detailed OP. Perhaps it would help if we knew what type of overall profile you are searching for:
    CRUST: Pastry (flour), Graham Cracker, Vanilla Wafer, something else?
    FILLING: Fresh fruit, caramelized (banana), Candied (banana), Banana Cream/pudding, something else?
    TOPPING (if any): Whipped Cream, Meringue, None, something else?

    What is missing/not right with what you have tried so far? Is it the banana that's not right (how? Too sweet, too fake, too strong, too weak, too real, too candied?)? The crust (how? too dominent, lost in the filling, not the right one, too flat/one-note?)? Mouthfeel/richness (how? too thin, too thick, lingers too long/not long enough?)? What parts might we be able to help you key in on?

    I ask because it sounds almost like it is the crust that is tripping you up. @Ricksha, @man00ver, and @G-Fog did a great online workup of a simple custard pie here on this thread: Milk Tart. In that particular development; the crust offered a specific challenge because the "filling" is rather subtle and delicate (for a custard). If you are willing to read through the thread, it provides some really great development notes,especially toward the crust (if pastry/flour crust is more of what you have in mind).

    For that particular recipe; FA's Apple Pie, INW Biscuit, and just a touch of Acetyl Pyrazine (0.25% of 5% A.P.), became the key to getting the crust right. I thought the "apple" would be too apparent in such a simple/light base but I was wrong.

    TFA's Bananas Foster might give you more of that "baked" banana flavor that has a touch of caramel, brown sugar, and a hint of nutmeg and cinnamon.

    Any details you can think to share will help to narrow down where we should be focusing. :)
     
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  9. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Wow! Thank you for your effort in helping me solve my dilemma. I'm really not quite sure how to answer that. The flavor I'm looking for isnt quite as "crusty" more like a bakery, or... cake? its like a sweet cakey banana. I know thats probably confusing because the juice is labeled as a "banana cream pie". but it tastes more like a creamy banana cake pie. I'm sorry I dont really know how to describe it. There was another juice that I tried that had that same "cakey" taste to it, I forget what it was called, but it had to do with monkeys, maybe monkey bread or something like that. Its hard to describe all the juices ive made, the best I can do is, most of them just seem... either nothing like a banana cream pie, for instance, the one im vaping now, tastes like sweet carmel. but kinda chemically... And now, to add insult to injury, the app I use on my phone to mix up juice just had an update.... which erased ALL of my recipes. I wont be using it anymore. but I THINK what is in it is...
    3% LAN banana
    3% FW yellow cupcake
    5% LAN Bavarian cream
    That could be completely wrong, but its something like that.
    I really dont know how to describe it, it doesnt taste anything like banana or cream or cake or anything. Just kinda sweet with some weird fake caramel taste to it. Its not smooth, its not mouth feely, its just bad....

    I think the taste im looking for is something like a pound cake, or yellow cake.
    You know, if you wait until a banana is right before it starts to turn black. The peel is really soft, and almost falls right off, and the banana is super soft and really mushy. maybe turning dark yellow in some spots.
    I think thats the kind of banana im looking for. Really sweet, almost candy like, but more "real"
     
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  10. man00ver

    man00ver Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 10, 2014
    Braselton, GA, USA
    @Andromendous - I think TFA Banana Nut Bread may be the secret ingredient you're looking for. It's a more realistic banana flavor in a sweet cake base. Punch it up with a some of your creams (TFA Whipped Cream would be a good one to start with), and you might find yourself homing in on your target.
     
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  11. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    My pleasure. You have been around here on ECF longer than I have, so you know better than I, but that is what most of us try to do. I am just trying to share the wealth that so many others have graciously shared with me. :D
    I think you did pretty good for starters:D:
    So, forgetting about what "the" store-brand is/was called (since most of us most likely haven't tasted it), and focusing on what you want the end result to taste like, we have a "sweet cakey banana" to start with. GOOD!:thumbs:
    This gets "pie" out of my mind. Banana pie makes me think of a banana pudding in a graham/pastry/`nilla wafer crust with maybe some chunks of over-ripe banana in it; fairly thick, really sweet, and a heavy creamy/custard-y mouthfeel. So you are saying "No" to that.

    Now, I am hearing/thinking more of a "banana bread" (minus the nuts; a touch more savory/less sweet), or a Banana Cupcake (sweeter, more confectionery), even banana pound cake (sweet, yet richer, "wetter"/heavier cake than a cupcake) is a good/better description. Maybe with a "riper" banana note (from your description):
    To me; this sounds like a really ripe banana, the type you would use for banana bread, so they don't go in the trash bin.

    This is making me think of a combination of TFA concentrates: Banana Ripe (for banana intensity/boldness) starting at about 1%, PLUS Bananas Foster (for richness and light notes of caramel, brown sugar, cinnamon, and nutmeg) at 3-4%, and Banana Cream (for the "sweet" banana notes and a touch of creaminess without becoming a banana "cream" ) at 3-4%. (The last two can be tweaked up/down depending on whether you want more of a rich "baked" banana effect or a more candy/artificial "pudding" banana effect.)(NOTE: I have only worked with TFA bananas and have no idea of other offerings; there very well may be other "as good/better" offerings by other manufacturers, I am just ignorant to what they may be.:))

    I would not add any additional caramel, butterscotch, creams, or spices, until I got the "banana" part correct. Then, if needed, look at other supporting accent notes.

    The "cake" aspect is a little (who am I kidding:rolleyes:; a lot harder) for me. I am not much of a cake kind of a guy. A cupcake (like TFA's Vanilla Cupcake which I have, and use) will offer a sweeter, perhaps even a touch drier, "cake" with a touch of vanilla. Yellow Cake (FW, CAP) should (I have used neither to date though have CAP in my stash) contribute more of a dense/"wet" "pound-cakey" effect. Perhaps adding a bit of INW Biscuit for depth and added richness (no more than 0.5-1.0% and only if Yellow Cake is too one dimensional on its own).

    The balance of the banana to cake is going to be the critical part (I think). When working on a new "from scratch" recipe; I use a basic 2:1 ratio as a starting point. If I want a peaches with ice cream, I will find my "sweet spot" for the peaches, and then use no more than half ice cream/cream additions. Compared to an Ice Cream with a peach note; where I will find my best ice cream base percentage, and then use no more than half that percentage for my peach additions.

    So, to relate this to your banana cake; decide if this is to be more of a cake dominant flavor with notes of banana, or a banana dominant flavor with cake notes. Then get that dominant base dialed in to your liking (ignoring the supporting cake/banana half), and then, starting at half of the dominant percentage, add in the accent portion.

    I am guessing, from what you have shared so far, that you have been overwhelming the banana with your cake efforts. But that is only a guess.

    I would also avoid using too many (any?) supporting/complimentary flavors like creams, caramels, and such, until you can say you have the core flavor(s) nailed but it is still missing "blank." Then you can fill in those missing blank spots (in very small percentages; at least to start) with those secondary (t. I have made more headaches for myself, by starting with too many ingredients, and muddying the waters before I ever learned what flavors I wanted to shine.

    As I grow in my own DIY journey; I am learning (time and again) that "less is more." Lower flavor percentages, and fewer ingredients, generally serve me better.

    Of course, none of this takes into account one's own pallet, individual concentrate strengths (even within a single manufacturer; let alone between manufacturers), and desired outcomes. So I only offer the above as what I would do. You very well may receive as good, or even better, suggestions and I would not hesitate to consider them (like I see @man00ver has posted while I 2 finger typed this:pervy:).

    Ask any questions that come to mind, consider all options, and keep us in the loop regarding your process. We are all learning here and we grow more quickly together than we ever could on our own. I am glad you are part of this community!:toast:
     
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  12. tazzle

    tazzle Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 5, 2014
    Athens, Greece
    Was this a retail juice, or a diy recipe? G2 Drunk Monkey clone recipe

    I was also thinking that Banana Nut Bread might be an ingredient! Some other possibilities that might be in a banana cake-y type recipe: rum, butter, brown sugar, pancake, toasted marshmallow, Crème Brûlée, maple, coconut (not necessarily enough to actually register a coconut taste -- it's often used to add some layering complexity / added creaminess).

    Here's a recipe with banana nut bread *and* pancake:

    Jack Johnson (Banana Pancakes) by dave on ELR

    0.18% .9% Saline Solution
    3% Banana Cream (TPA)
    2% Banana Nut Bread (TPA)
    0.5% Golden Butter (CAP)
    2% Pancake (TPA)
    1% Vanilla Bean Gelato (TPA)
    0.5% Vanilla Shisha (INAWERA)

    Dave says: "Excellent Right away, Banana and Pancake Mature fully at 2 days. You can sub out Shisha Vanilla with Simply Vanilla or Vanilla Swirl if you desire more creaminess."

    Here's one I'm just going to throw in; could be worth playing around with, maybe subbing banana cream for the strawberry shisha? (ALTHOUGH it's totally possible Andromendous' mystery recipe does have a wee bit of strawberry, too):

    Powder Monkey by hootenanny

    1.5% Apple Pie (FA)
    2.25% Banana Nut Bread (TPA)
    0.75% Bavarian Cream (TPA)
    0.5% Biscuit (INAWERA)
    0.75% Cheesecake (LA)
    0.75% Cotton Candy (10% EM/Ethyl Maltol) (TPA)
    2% Cream Fresh (FA)
    1% Marshmallow (TPA)
    3% Strawberry Shisha (INAWERA)
    2.5% Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP)

    hootenanny says: - 5 drops MTS per 100mL, - Steep: 1-3 weeks

    Andromendous, you must let us know if you find anything close; I'm so curious!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    hmmm.... I found the "other" juice that was similar to the one I love.... This juice has that "cakey" flavor in it, but to me it is very light compaired to the juice I want. But still is that same flavor I believe.
    Monkey's Breath by Drip Head | ZampleBox Ejuice Flavors

    I think you guys might be right, the answer may have been right under my nose the whole time. The one thing I haven't tried was banana bread, or foster. Maybe that is the key. The way alot of these guys describe it.
     
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  14. tazzle

    tazzle Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 5, 2014
    Athens, Greece
    I was just perusing a collection of clone recipes -- not really in relation to this question, but figured I'd toss these two on the pile:

    Brewnana Breakfast Blend N°123 by Brewell Vapery

    5% Banana Cream (TPA)
    0.8% Brown Sugar (TPA)
    1% Yellow Cake (FW)
    2% Caramel (FA)
    0.5% Fresh Cream (FA)
    1.3% Graham Cracker Clear (TPA)
    1% Hazelnut (FW)
    2% Meringue (FA)
    1% EM

    Mellow Melange by Mad Murdock

    6% Banana Foster (FW)
    6% Graham Cracker (FW)
    4% Ginger Bread (FW)
    1.5% Banana Cream (FW)
    1.5% Apple Pie (FW)
    0.5% Marshmallow (FW)
    0.5% EM
     
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  15. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Thanks for all the help guys. Any input makes a difference. I really do appreciate it.
    Looks like Ill be needing to upgrade my flavor stash, which is going to take a little while.

    Ill update when I can. Again thank you!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    Keep us in the loop when you get back to it. I am eager to see what you find out. :D
     
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  17. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    OK, as far as the banana I think I found a nice combo. INA Banana @ 1% and TFA Banana cream @ 2% is pretty darn good. I might bump up one or the other because it is just a tad light. but Im afraid when I start adding other flavors it might over power them. I think this is a good start though.
     
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  18. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    So I just got a my order in today. I got some flavors from BCF and ECX, I got Banana nut bread and Banana Foster from ECX, it said Signature but it had (TPA) next to it, so I assumed it was the flavor apprentice, I guess I was wrong because the bottle says Signature.... Are they the same company? or..?
     
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  19. IDJoel

    IDJoel Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 20, 2015
    Boise, ID
    Yes; they're the same. Signature is simply ECX's own in-house label and they are up front about re-bottling the TFA.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Andromendous

    Andromendous Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2014
    Oklahoma, USA
    Hm.... So why would they do that though? whats the point?
     
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