CASAA | PR & Communications
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PR: I have an area of concern that has permeated this forum and created mixed thoughts in a stance that I have developed over time....how to deal with the question of advocacy for never-smokers who seek counsel on PV usage? The allegations that PVs will encourage nonsmokers are myriad from various groups. What shall be our stance on this issue?
Thoughts and ideas?
Thoughts and ideas?
Do you mean that PV's would seem enticing to a non smoker? I had been thinking about a membership category called "Advocate: Non-Smoker" that would be made up of significant others of e-cig users but not actually smokers or converts.
Advocacy of significant others is a great idea. I was referring to individuals who do not use tobacco products but seek advice on purchasing an e-cig to experiment with. The questions come in almost daily on the forum. To better explain the issue check out this link:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ons/44092-discouraging-nonsmokers-vaping.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ons/44092-discouraging-nonsmokers-vaping.html
you know... combining that significant others idea with thornbjorg's banners would be a great way for to gain some positive exposure for PVs and CASAA.
ie. my husband/wife etc.... has been smoke-free for XX days
ie. my husband/wife etc.... has been smoke-free for XX days
I personally think it would be handing the shotgun of our doom directly to our detractors on several logical, social and political levels.
OTOH...this SI angle.
*Brilliant*. Utterly brilliant....and to the voice from a arguably "biased" but yet first-hand source.
I believe it is worth investigation/consideration. I'll ask my wife what she thinks
OTOH...this SI angle.
*Brilliant*. Utterly brilliant....and to the voice from a arguably "biased" but yet first-hand source.
I believe it is worth investigation/consideration. I'll ask my wife what she thinks
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While the benefits of Nicotine for some reasons are suspected or known, (ADD for example), it is my opinion to never advocate the possibility of creating a nicotine addiction.
As many others have said, I do not wish any addiction upon anyone, especially a nicotine addiction. Sooner or later we will have to take a definitive stance here. You know mine.
I think that whenever possible, for smokers and non-smokers alike, we should encourage everyone to reduce or eliminate their dependence on nicotine.
The beauty of e-cigarettes is the ability to decide for yourself if the benefits of nicotine outweigh the hazards. If you choose to continue using nicotine, you have the benefits of reduced harm. Alternately, if you want to end your dependence, e-cigarettes offer the ability to titrate or eliminate nicotine entirely while still offering the replacement behavior of vaping the flavor of your choice to satisfy the psychological addiction and oral fixation while you are coping with the physical withdrawal symptoms.
As to whether or not we recommend the to people who've never smoked--if you've never smoked, there won't be much benefit to start using nicotine. I would venture to guess that 90% of the people who would benefit from Nicotine use are likely to have already began self-medicating. On the bottom line, everyone should have the freedom to choose safer and more effective smoking replacements. IMHO, a smoking replacement that uses nicotine is a more effective replacement than one that doesn't, but using less or zero nicotine makes them safer. E-cigarettes do a good job of being a good balance of safety and effectiveness, but the true beauty is in the ability to find the balance that suits each person individually.
The beauty of e-cigarettes is the ability to decide for yourself if the benefits of nicotine outweigh the hazards. If you choose to continue using nicotine, you have the benefits of reduced harm. Alternately, if you want to end your dependence, e-cigarettes offer the ability to titrate or eliminate nicotine entirely while still offering the replacement behavior of vaping the flavor of your choice to satisfy the psychological addiction and oral fixation while you are coping with the physical withdrawal symptoms.
As to whether or not we recommend the to people who've never smoked--if you've never smoked, there won't be much benefit to start using nicotine. I would venture to guess that 90% of the people who would benefit from Nicotine use are likely to have already began self-medicating. On the bottom line, everyone should have the freedom to choose safer and more effective smoking replacements. IMHO, a smoking replacement that uses nicotine is a more effective replacement than one that doesn't, but using less or zero nicotine makes them safer. E-cigarettes do a good job of being a good balance of safety and effectiveness, but the true beauty is in the ability to find the balance that suits each person individually.
//If you come across other information that you think might be useful info to have on the CASAA site, add to this string. It will be one-stop shopping for Webby.//
Greetings:
I am new to this forum, but have read a lot in my short span. Personally, I am on my own mission to eliminate the evil specter of government control, looming over us, which threatens our lives, or will render us as criminals if we persist in using our personal vaporizers. But I do believe that my success can be enhanced or furthered by assisting others with similar goals.
I believe that an approach that you guys at CASAA would be wise to consider is a principled approach, as opposed to the overwhelmingly "pragmatic scramble" that you seem to be doing. Specifically, citing case studies, proving that electronic cigarettes are safer than cigarettes, or demonstrating that the blue LEDs won't harm the eyes of children, might work if this were a simple matter, where the Fed was not being financially influenced by Big Tobacco, or the pharmaceutical giants who manufacture and distribute the patch, and nicotine gum. Under such circumstances, it would be perfectly rational for those concerned, to simply send in all relevant data, and then a predictable decision would be made: the substance would be approved; after all, its perfectly safe.
However, we are not living and fighting within the circumstances previously described. Under our circumstances, we are threatening the interests of overwhelming wealth and power, whoobviously have begun their campaign to control the market, through the use of governmental coercion.
Hopefully, you will now concede that fact sheets and glossaries are helpful, and perhaps something useful, but fall too short of the mark, and are like automatic windows on carsat best. Can you imagine a car, where all you have, are the windows and motors that make them go up and down, but no door or anything else to connect them to? That would be utter absurdity!
We (vapers) are a fringe group, and few in number. This is the overwhelming danger of a pragmatic approach. No matter how many statistics or data points we offer, the ULTIMATE statistic, is that only a fraction of a percentage point of voters will be affected. Moreover, if you havent noticed that the public at large has become rather numb to issues regarding smokers, then I have to assume that you live in a shack on top of a mountain, hidden within a state park somewhere. In short, no one gives a **** what the government does in regards to our issue. Smokers wont even grumble, because theyll still be able to continue smokingand paying through the nose. Only ex-smokers/current vapers, know and appreciate how horrific it would be for the Fed to squelch us in exchange for their lung money.
Since it has become a tradition here in America that the majority rules, what we have to do is increase our numbers. Period. Make no mistake about it; anything else is suicidalliteral suicidefor vapers. One approach, under this stated objective, would be to recruit existing smokers, and convert them. I have several models for accomplishing this, but my plan has not yet gotten to that financial plateau. But, I am not very concerned with that, since the most powerful thing we can do costs nothing, or damned near nothing.
Our situation is not uniquein principleto the plight of so many other groupsmore specifically, individualswithin this country; individuals, whose rights as human beings have been, and are violated by the majority. Right here, if you are still reading this, think to yourself; how many times you have felt in favor of regulations that violate someone elses rights, but didnt care; you were not affected, and whatever the violation, it was congruent with your personal preference.
Essentially, your honest answer to the previous illustration, should serve to give you an understanding of how they get us; this epiphany is not one of doom, but is the essence of how we can, and hopefully, will win.
The overall method used by Americas power hungry megalomaniacs, is to divide the population into pragmatic oppression camps. Each issue is presented as a unique phenomenon that is to be voted on, and weighed against public opinion. Instead of Americans being taught to question whether or not any issue violates the rights of any other individual, or more clearly stated, threatens to force human beings into an action or harm; or, threatens to present a false impression upon the minds of human beings, in order to control them, we are conditioned to think about an action, as if because someone else does something, that we are obligated to join in. Essentially, that we should force others to prefer our own preferences, to the extent that we can within our power. Do what I do, and dont do what I dont door else!
We are taught to respect authority, not for the sake of good reasonjust because. Authority is granted to a collective intelligence, that forces abstinence or action, in virtually all matters of preference, which is in total contradiction to Americas founding. America began as a nation where authority was given to protect the citizens right to exercise their own preferences, in all matters, in regard to all things. Force and fraud precluded. What else does liberty mean? Duh.
In my view, and in my own personal crusade against the specter of government control in regard to electronic cigarettes, I have begun the process of education and unification under the principle of individual rights. I am sure that this is the best platform for a fight all the way to the Supreme Courtif necessary. If our numbers are to be enumerated to the extent needed in order to push off this attack on our very lives, then, the only thing that we can do to grow fast enough is this approach.
The ironic thing about all this, is that we dont need to fudge, or lie in order to accomplish this mission. There are millions of people fighting for their freedom on various issues: Women who believe they have a right to choose, people who wish to inhale marijuana, people who are gay and want the rights of straight people, people who own home, and the government wants the property, people who dont want to be taxed anymore, etc.; the list goes on and on.
However, even more ironically, the only thing that could possibly stop such a movement is the very thing that is threatening us on this particular concrete: the need for some people to control the lives of others. Every time you are guilty of this, you threaten your own personal freedom.
For more information: www aquatiq com/history html <--insert dots in spaces (3 dots).
Chuck Lester
Greetings:
I am new to this forum, but have read a lot in my short span. Personally, I am on my own mission to eliminate the evil specter of government control, looming over us, which threatens our lives, or will render us as criminals if we persist in using our personal vaporizers. But I do believe that my success can be enhanced or furthered by assisting others with similar goals.
I believe that an approach that you guys at CASAA would be wise to consider is a principled approach, as opposed to the overwhelmingly "pragmatic scramble" that you seem to be doing. Specifically, citing case studies, proving that electronic cigarettes are safer than cigarettes, or demonstrating that the blue LEDs won't harm the eyes of children, might work if this were a simple matter, where the Fed was not being financially influenced by Big Tobacco, or the pharmaceutical giants who manufacture and distribute the patch, and nicotine gum. Under such circumstances, it would be perfectly rational for those concerned, to simply send in all relevant data, and then a predictable decision would be made: the substance would be approved; after all, its perfectly safe.
However, we are not living and fighting within the circumstances previously described. Under our circumstances, we are threatening the interests of overwhelming wealth and power, whoobviously have begun their campaign to control the market, through the use of governmental coercion.
Hopefully, you will now concede that fact sheets and glossaries are helpful, and perhaps something useful, but fall too short of the mark, and are like automatic windows on carsat best. Can you imagine a car, where all you have, are the windows and motors that make them go up and down, but no door or anything else to connect them to? That would be utter absurdity!
We (vapers) are a fringe group, and few in number. This is the overwhelming danger of a pragmatic approach. No matter how many statistics or data points we offer, the ULTIMATE statistic, is that only a fraction of a percentage point of voters will be affected. Moreover, if you havent noticed that the public at large has become rather numb to issues regarding smokers, then I have to assume that you live in a shack on top of a mountain, hidden within a state park somewhere. In short, no one gives a **** what the government does in regards to our issue. Smokers wont even grumble, because theyll still be able to continue smokingand paying through the nose. Only ex-smokers/current vapers, know and appreciate how horrific it would be for the Fed to squelch us in exchange for their lung money.
Since it has become a tradition here in America that the majority rules, what we have to do is increase our numbers. Period. Make no mistake about it; anything else is suicidalliteral suicidefor vapers. One approach, under this stated objective, would be to recruit existing smokers, and convert them. I have several models for accomplishing this, but my plan has not yet gotten to that financial plateau. But, I am not very concerned with that, since the most powerful thing we can do costs nothing, or damned near nothing.
Our situation is not uniquein principleto the plight of so many other groupsmore specifically, individualswithin this country; individuals, whose rights as human beings have been, and are violated by the majority. Right here, if you are still reading this, think to yourself; how many times you have felt in favor of regulations that violate someone elses rights, but didnt care; you were not affected, and whatever the violation, it was congruent with your personal preference.
Essentially, your honest answer to the previous illustration, should serve to give you an understanding of how they get us; this epiphany is not one of doom, but is the essence of how we can, and hopefully, will win.
The overall method used by Americas power hungry megalomaniacs, is to divide the population into pragmatic oppression camps. Each issue is presented as a unique phenomenon that is to be voted on, and weighed against public opinion. Instead of Americans being taught to question whether or not any issue violates the rights of any other individual, or more clearly stated, threatens to force human beings into an action or harm; or, threatens to present a false impression upon the minds of human beings, in order to control them, we are conditioned to think about an action, as if because someone else does something, that we are obligated to join in. Essentially, that we should force others to prefer our own preferences, to the extent that we can within our power. Do what I do, and dont do what I dont door else!
We are taught to respect authority, not for the sake of good reasonjust because. Authority is granted to a collective intelligence, that forces abstinence or action, in virtually all matters of preference, which is in total contradiction to Americas founding. America began as a nation where authority was given to protect the citizens right to exercise their own preferences, in all matters, in regard to all things. Force and fraud precluded. What else does liberty mean? Duh.
In my view, and in my own personal crusade against the specter of government control in regard to electronic cigarettes, I have begun the process of education and unification under the principle of individual rights. I am sure that this is the best platform for a fight all the way to the Supreme Courtif necessary. If our numbers are to be enumerated to the extent needed in order to push off this attack on our very lives, then, the only thing that we can do to grow fast enough is this approach.
The ironic thing about all this, is that we dont need to fudge, or lie in order to accomplish this mission. There are millions of people fighting for their freedom on various issues: Women who believe they have a right to choose, people who wish to inhale marijuana, people who are gay and want the rights of straight people, people who own home, and the government wants the property, people who dont want to be taxed anymore, etc.; the list goes on and on.
However, even more ironically, the only thing that could possibly stop such a movement is the very thing that is threatening us on this particular concrete: the need for some people to control the lives of others. Every time you are guilty of this, you threaten your own personal freedom.
For more information: www aquatiq com/history html <--insert dots in spaces (3 dots).
Chuck Lester
My advice for PR? Keep it between yourselves. Then sock it to us on your website.
Hatching plans here on ECF is like watching grass grow. And when you finally put it up, it's like "big deal", everybody knows about it already.
Keep it propriatary and sock us with it when you're ready.
Just my 2 cents
Hatching plans here on ECF is like watching grass grow. And when you finally put it up, it's like "big deal", everybody knows about it already.
Keep it propriatary and sock us with it when you're ready.
Just my 2 cents
That's the plan!
CASAA's server is in place and the internal forum is being moved there next week. The intention is to discuss and debate (publicly - what we can) there and on ECF, hold a CFV (internally) and place the public records of Board votes on CASAA.ORG
Chuck,
You make some very good points here and if CASAA were one persons ideology or mission it could easily become the quagmire you describe. Hopefully the diversity of the membership (1000 members and growing) will prove to be the balancing factor.
There are some who think CASAA should adopt a pure advocacy and grass roots approach, others who feel we should document and fund our own studies and legal battles, still others say we should adopt some other groups mission and support their efforts. I dont see us as much in a pragmatic scramble as in the developmental stage of seeing exactly where our efforts will be best used.
Definitely. CASAA is more than a consolidation or library of documented efforts and studies. We do feel that a central repository WILL make our efforts in swaying public and political opinion easier, as Ill explain in a moment.
Or care. This is why putting a public, human face to our members and the cause is so vital. Ive said this repeatedly if this were a debate or legal issue, analogs would be taken off the market immediately. Since the worlds economy revolves (in part) due to the financial wheels of Big Tobacco, no one realistically assumes that will ever happen.
Its like watching a sci-fi movie. First you have to establish what reality is and then make the surreal leap of faith to accept the rules. In this fight, we can find the legal or medical Holy Grail of proof and the powers that be will simply change the rules. This isnt a movie. There is no smoking gun piece of evidence we can get the local news stations to play or spread virally across the internet that will expose the bad guys and allow us to win.
Even if we can prove everything weve ALL been saying, it wont change the tide because the non-smoking public simply isnt interested. If they dont care, the politicians dont care. Which makes it easier for them to listen to the lobbyists and vote to pass legislation that provides the path of least resistance to them.
So what do we do? We change public opinion. We make vaping public. We bring it home. Everyone knows someone who smokes analogs and wishes they didnt. Vaping is a smoking alternative. It will never make the quit or die groups happy, so we dont solely focus the fight there. We fight it by increasing our numbers and being visible.
Exactly. We need to bridge what other groups and the ECA can not suppliers and people outside the forums. Suppliers sell to hundreds of thousands of users who wouldnt know this (or any other) forum if it bit them on the atomizer. They buy online or from kiosks and tobacco retail outlets without ever setting foot on another website other than the one where they bought their first e-cig.
This is my personal reason for being involved in CASAA. I am a supplier. I know dozens more who would sooner cut off their arm than send thousands of customers into a flea market of other suppliers and Chinese carnival barkers on forums like ECF.
The ECA has stated there are a million e-cig users (based on starter kits sold, I believe). For arguments sake, lets say that number is inflated and only 750,000. I dont know the actual numbers of ECF, RtV and VF, but lets say (on the high side) they number a whopping 75,000 (pretty generous assessment IMO) That means (at least) 90% of users ARE NOT IN THE FORUMS.
This is why CASAA doesnt allow advertising or more than a 25% supplier representation on the Board. Court the suppliers and give them no reason to see CASAA as a threat to their business and the numbers will grow beyond belief.
You make some very good points here and if CASAA were one persons ideology or mission it could easily become the quagmire you describe. Hopefully the diversity of the membership (1000 members and growing) will prove to be the balancing factor.
There are some who think CASAA should adopt a pure advocacy and grass roots approach, others who feel we should document and fund our own studies and legal battles, still others say we should adopt some other groups mission and support their efforts. I dont see us as much in a pragmatic scramble as in the developmental stage of seeing exactly where our efforts will be best used.
Definitely. CASAA is more than a consolidation or library of documented efforts and studies. We do feel that a central repository WILL make our efforts in swaying public and political opinion easier, as Ill explain in a moment.
Or care. This is why putting a public, human face to our members and the cause is so vital. Ive said this repeatedly if this were a debate or legal issue, analogs would be taken off the market immediately. Since the worlds economy revolves (in part) due to the financial wheels of Big Tobacco, no one realistically assumes that will ever happen.
Its like watching a sci-fi movie. First you have to establish what reality is and then make the surreal leap of faith to accept the rules. In this fight, we can find the legal or medical Holy Grail of proof and the powers that be will simply change the rules. This isnt a movie. There is no smoking gun piece of evidence we can get the local news stations to play or spread virally across the internet that will expose the bad guys and allow us to win.
Even if we can prove everything weve ALL been saying, it wont change the tide because the non-smoking public simply isnt interested. If they dont care, the politicians dont care. Which makes it easier for them to listen to the lobbyists and vote to pass legislation that provides the path of least resistance to them.
So what do we do? We change public opinion. We make vaping public. We bring it home. Everyone knows someone who smokes analogs and wishes they didnt. Vaping is a smoking alternative. It will never make the quit or die groups happy, so we dont solely focus the fight there. We fight it by increasing our numbers and being visible.
Exactly. We need to bridge what other groups and the ECA can not suppliers and people outside the forums. Suppliers sell to hundreds of thousands of users who wouldnt know this (or any other) forum if it bit them on the atomizer. They buy online or from kiosks and tobacco retail outlets without ever setting foot on another website other than the one where they bought their first e-cig.
This is my personal reason for being involved in CASAA. I am a supplier. I know dozens more who would sooner cut off their arm than send thousands of customers into a flea market of other suppliers and Chinese carnival barkers on forums like ECF.
The ECA has stated there are a million e-cig users (based on starter kits sold, I believe). For arguments sake, lets say that number is inflated and only 750,000. I dont know the actual numbers of ECF, RtV and VF, but lets say (on the high side) they number a whopping 75,000 (pretty generous assessment IMO) That means (at least) 90% of users ARE NOT IN THE FORUMS.
This is why CASAA doesnt allow advertising or more than a 25% supplier representation on the Board. Court the suppliers and give them no reason to see CASAA as a threat to their business and the numbers will grow beyond belief.
I brought this up in the Slogan sub-forum. What do you think of producing a 30 second tv spot?
I'm an actor with an extensive film network base in the Detroit area. Voice and Traditional Actors, Directors, Agents, Casting Directors, Writers, Crew etc. etc.
Let me know by PM if CASAA is interested and I'll run it through the proper channels. This is production assets only. Airtime will have to be secured by CASAA.
I'm an actor with an extensive film network base in the Detroit area. Voice and Traditional Actors, Directors, Agents, Casting Directors, Writers, Crew etc. etc.
Let me know by PM if CASAA is interested and I'll run it through the proper channels. This is production assets only. Airtime will have to be secured by CASAA.
So far I have five actors, a production assistant and a casting director all express interest. Can't really go any further until I have an outline or an idea of the content you want.
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